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  • #31
    With episode 4 the story is finally starting to pickup.

    Especially with the arrival of Seven of Nine and the Romulan "ninja."

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    • #32
      I'll be watching this on the bus to Helsinki this evening (EET) so will post my thoughts on ep 4 after that.
      I do appreciate the spoiler space.
      "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

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      • #33
        I have watched the first three episodes and I like the show. I do want to comment on something arc vs. episodic:

        JMS when he did Babylon 5 set out to do two things at the same time: make episodes that were enjoyable on their own, and those episodes would tie into a bigger arc when viewed together. At the time he said he needed the stand-alone style because the 90s syndication market wasn't built for serial shows. However if you view it all together you see a lot of threads being carried between episodes.

        In my viewing of "Picard" and other more modern shows, I think there is a big missing piece of "arc" type shows that new writers don't understand how to do: making each episode a story unto itself while tying into a larger story. "Picard" seems to be going for the style of throw out some exposition and then have a twist at the end of each episode to make you tune in again. But it doesn't really feel like a single story in each episode. Just more scenes of the same story episode-to-episode.

        That said I enjoyed all the Data scenes in episode one, I love the Romulan caretakers on the chateau, and I think the idea of a derelict Borg Cube as a research ship is a super cool concept. I really like the EFX shots in the show so far. Also Patrick Stewart is still amazing to watch after all these years.

        Looking forward to the rest of the show!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by JoeD80 View Post
          I have watched the first three episodes and I like the show. I do want to comment on something arc vs. episodic:

          JMS when he did Babylon 5 set out to do two things at the same time: make episodes that were enjoyable on their own, and those episodes would tie into a bigger arc when viewed together. At the time he said he needed the stand-alone style because the 90s syndication market wasn't built for serial shows. However if you view it all together you see a lot of threads being carried between episodes.

          In my viewing of "Picard" and other more modern shows, I think there is a big missing piece of "arc" type shows that new writers don't understand how to do: making each episode a story unto itself while tying into a larger story. "Picard" seems to be going for the style of throw out some exposition and then have a twist at the end of each episode to make you tune in again. But it doesn't really feel like a single story in each episode. Just more scenes of the same story episode-to-episode.

          That said I enjoyed all the Data scenes in episode one, I love the Romulan caretakers on the chateau, and I think the idea of a derelict Borg Cube as a research ship is a super cool concept. I really like the EFX shots in the show so far. Also Patrick Stewart is still amazing to watch after all these years.

          Looking forward to the rest of the show!
          Joe, fully agree that modern shows struggle with this. I think it also has to do with the lower episode count, on average 12 episodes per season these days. I do think it's possible to do both in this format, but it was definitely way easier when you had 22 episodes a season to play with. Every 3 or 4th episode can be an arc heavy episode and the others can explore self contained plots and develop characters. Part of me does like the modern compressed story telling when it's done well. We get straight to the meat of the show, and done well (e.g. The OA, The Expanse), it can be awesome.
          Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

          Kosh: Good!

          Comment


          • #35
            Episode 4 seen (belated).. WE'RE OFF!:


            Well things have finally taken off! Enjoying the fact we're back in space.. loved the look of the Romulan refugee colony (particularly in the flashback sequences) with the giant 'world tree' background, although in the opening planet shot I wish we'd seen the Enterprise E approaching (considering they made some interesting modifications to the D I'd be interested to see what they do with the E). Backstory of the Romulan Samurai dude & his history with Picard was interesting, although Picard now walking around with a Elf looking dude that slices off heads feels a bit weird lol, but no doubt they'll be some big fun action bits with him down the track (which will aggravate oldschool trek purists to no end I'm sure haha).

            Enjoyed the space battle, sure enough it was a classic 22nd century Romulan Bird of Prey (nice tip of hat to old Trek), retrofitted for lawless system warlord related activities lol. Interesting to see all these different hologram crew member variants captain Chris has. 7 of 9 has arrived! Will be very interesting to see how much they delve into her past and backstory post Voyager return. Also the holodeck stuff explains why she's in Patrick's 'home' in the trailers. I know people were complaining/making fun of the Picard sword scene in the original trailer, but it was fine, they even made him took kinda tough before he did the expected 'I'm not fighting you/playing your games' thing. Although his comment about having bad knees annoyed me, I don't care if you're 95yrs old, it's 24th century, people aren't gonna have 'bad knees' lol (we're already getting into 3D printing/replicating joints & cartilage now so it's only a matter of time), would rather they just continue to try and hide any difficulties RL Patrick might have, although I still maintain he seems to zip around just fine in real life on talk shows and stuff though lol.

            Anyway we're already off to another planet in the teaser for the next ep so things are definitely moving along now lol! Although I'm a little worried about all that silly dress up stuff.. I swear to god if the next ep is like the Casino planet sequence in Ryan Johnson's cr*ptastic Star Wars film and black eye patch gangsta Picard is throwing dice with cheesy overly excited cgi aliens I'm gonna throw my Tv lol.

            Oh and I'm probably off the mark with the Lore theory previously posted.. sounds like they're going for something bigger.. harbinger of doom stuff lol!


            Guess I better hurry up and watch Ep 5 now instead of reading comments as that's just asking for spoilers haha.

            .
            Blake's Sanctum:
            - Total Conversion mods: Star Trek Doom 2, & Star Wars Civilization 2
            - Game Shrines: Age of Wonders,Babylon 5 Fan Games, Command & Conquer, Elder Scrolls, Dune Games, Final Fantasy, Freelancer, Heroes of Might & Magic, Master of Magic, Quest for Glory Series, Starflight, & Star Trek Games
            - Movie & TV Shrines: Lord Of The Rings & Hobbit, & Star Trek
            - Emulation

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            • #36
              Episode 5
              Seven settles an old score for the gruesome murder of Icheb. Mr. Mot the Barber from TNG Enterprise has retired from Star Fleet and set up his 'Hair Emporium' next to Quark's Bar 'what's yours is ours' on Freecloud. I like the way they reversed the Risan slogan "what's ours is yours" at Quark's Bar. Agnes Jurati (Alison Pill) is probably an agent working for the Commodore (Tamlyn Tomita)






              I tried to add a screen capture, but even inside the spoiler space it is still visible without using the mouse.

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              • #37
                Yeah.. episode 5.. wow.. If people here disliked it you don't have to worry about me arguing with you on this one guys. As this episode broke me too, or more precisely it broke my enjoyment of the show. I didn't enjoy that at all. I thought maybe if I sleep on it I'd feel better but nope, today I'm even grumpier about it haha. Up until now I've only had little nitpicks and have really enjoyed show and have defended it when people have complained about it "not feeling like star trek" but there was next to nothing Star Trek feeling about Ep 5. Those people who complained about past eps not being star trek are gonna looooooove this one lol. I don't wanna walk away from a Star Trek episode feeling frustrated and miserable. When they played the exciting trailer for the next ep and all the cool Borg stuff at the end I didn't even give s***. I was like.. whatever. They're gonna have to work hard in the next few eps to undo the damage that one just did. I can only hope that they had to go that dark and callous to setup the audience to be brought back to the light and happy ending lol. But I can't help but think that if it turned me off that badly then all those people out there who's really not been that into the new show and were barely holding on will probably be like "stuff this!" and be done with it after seeing that ep lol.


                For starters the acting felt a bit weird and wooden in this ep. Picard & 7 scenes felt weird, felt more like the actors were catching up more than the characters haha. 7 felt a little too different and Patrick didn't feel very 'Picardy'. His french gangster over acting rouse was funny but just didn't feel like something Picard would do, felt like I was watching one of Patrick's stage plays lol. For a French born character his french accent was pretty bad haha!

                Can't remember what forum I was talking in but there was a guy who was all annoyed about how upset Raffi was about loosing her security clearance lol, well he's gonna love this ep and it pretty much says she turned into a alco & drug addict and messed up her family after that incident lol. Messed up drug addicts and alcoholics on earth, I'm sure Gene would love that lol. But hey I'm sure she'll have her recovering addict redemption story a happy ending with her dr son at some point and people will wonder if they're watching an episode of Chicago Med & not Star Trek lol.

                But lets get to the real jewel of the episode.. I liked Voyager a lot but its not my favourite old trek show, probably more 3rd fav behind TNG & DS9. So considering how much this ep annoyed me I feel bad for all the super Voyager fans out there. You're NOT in for a good time here guys, I REALLY do feel bad for you guys and say sorry. Pretty much straight off the bat poor old (now grown up) Borg kid Icheb is utterly and brutally tortured/dissected and then murdered. Obviously the former was by the 'bad guys' but the later was by his Borg mum 7 of 9! Yes that's right, die hard voyager fans who love 7 of 9 and have been waiting for her return will literally get to see her shoot her own adopted son in the first 20 seconds of seeing her lol. He does the whole "im too far gone, put me out of my misery" thing everyone's seen a million times and she obliges. Get f****** mate! I get it, he's probably missing a few vital cybernetic organs but if he bleeds out or dies on route so be it, but at least try to throw him over your shoulder and carry your sons ass out of there. I mean I'm sure she didn't exactly have a nice state of the art medical bay next door ready to go or a big starship to beam up to but still it.. just.. felt.. wrong. Oh and apparently she just left him there too giving the black market guys EXACTLY what they wanted anyway as the crime lord chick brags later in the ep about dissecting him. Wtf?????

                But don't worry Voyager fans there's more character assassination coming for your enjoyment haha. 7 of 9 is definitely not the one you know anymore lol.. now she's PTSD Aragorn ranger'ing around the galaxy shooting lots of people vigilante style.. in fact I think they even call her a vigilante in one scene lol. You know all those boring episodes of Voyager where we got endless Janeway and 7 of 9 scenes (funny now considering how much the actors disliked each other) handcrafting her into a civilized 24th century human being? Well say goodbye to that folks cause now she's a messed up Bourbon drinking badass assassin for hire! She's helping those in need who can't help themselves and is more than happy to kill a few hundred people in the process if they get in her way *cue dramatic 80s action music* lol!

                So what now then.. I mean in her final scene she lies to Picard, beams back down and offs the crime lord chick and then starts mowing down the place and it cuts away. The end! So that's answers the question of will she be a regular.. nope.. she's gooone. Maybe she'll come back later? Maybe she's return in a future season? Maybe they'll even be a nice happy ending redemption story for her down the track too (although that doesn't bring poor Icheb back does it lol)? Or maybe not lol and that'll be the end of her story and every time Voyager fans re-watch the old show they'll be like "oh look there's Icheb, when voyager gets home he joins starfleet and gets brutally tortured and murdered for spare parts.. and oh look there's 7 of 9, she's the one that kills him and leaves him there to be dissected for said parts lol, and spends the rest of her life miserable and shooting up half the galaxy in revenge." It's likethe new Star Wars films.. I don't enjoy seeing my favourite childhood characters being brutally murdered in front of me. Because now when I re-watch the original stuff I just see their cheap deaths. Data's death in Nemesis had a similar effect on me so that's why I was so happy about this show as it gave me hope that they'd "do a star trek 3" and find a way to resurrect him. But now I find myself wondering how many other beloved characters are gonna get killed or messed up on the road to that happy ending, assuming thats even what happens, we may not even get that lol.

                Anyway sorry.. back to the slaughter.. Bruce maddox.. they found him.. and he was all a messed up stressed alcoholic too of course.. cause everyone's messed up these days.. aaaaaaand then he was dead. All he bloody did was tell them her name and that shes at the cube and next thing we know he's getting offed by his own girlfriend (20 or so years younger than him I might add, yeeeaaahhh way to go on office romance bro! pulling those youngers chicks aint easy bro.. high 5!) giving us our innocent clumsy girl is actually working for bad guys shock moment at the end of the episode.. fake gasp.. yeah.. like I said before I was already completely disconnected by that stage and just didn't even care.


                Urgh.. end of rant. Breath Daniel.. Just breath... lol

                Like I said.. they're gonna need to work hard to undo the damage this episode did. I think I'd rather rewatch most of the episodes in discovery season 1 than ever watch that episode again lol.

                Everywhere I go so far I've seem pretty horrified responses to ep5. I've seen a couple of dudes say they loved ep5 though, I was like WAAAT lol.


                I will pay the episode one compliment though.. their attention to detail on past Trek events once again is impressive. Eg they acknowledged Picard's Borg past which I was worried they wouldn't. They mentioned Quark in the bar sequence. And the biggest one would be during the horrible Icheb torture surgery scene where the lady callously says "where's your cortical node buddy?" as shes ripping stuff out of him. In season 7 of Voyager Icheb risked his life and gave his to 7 of 9 when her failed and they realised she couldn't survive without one while he might, which of course he did.

                Meanwhile some self appointed comedian just thew this hand grenade into a Voyager facebook group. I'm sure you can image how well that went down with them lol. Too soon? Yeah just a bit lol.

                Spoiler Joke Picture

                Blake's Sanctum:
                - Total Conversion mods: Star Trek Doom 2, & Star Wars Civilization 2
                - Game Shrines: Age of Wonders,Babylon 5 Fan Games, Command & Conquer, Elder Scrolls, Dune Games, Final Fantasy, Freelancer, Heroes of Might & Magic, Master of Magic, Quest for Glory Series, Starflight, & Star Trek Games
                - Movie & TV Shrines: Lord Of The Rings & Hobbit, & Star Trek
                - Emulation

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                • #38
                  I like the latest episode. First scene was hard to watch but I thought the rest of the episode was pretty fun. I'm not sure why people think Seven isn't showing up again; people assuming this episode is it for her story. We still have five more episodes to go here! New alien was cool and I felt the tenseness of the situations. I like Elnor and hope he has a bigger part to play in the overall story.

                  Something else has been sticking out to me - we had a little flashback at the beginning but the rest of the story about where Seven has been and what happened was told by Seven in dialogue later. I wondered why we didn't just see all the things Seven was talking about when we were in the flashback at the beginning of the episode. This show seems to always want to play everything as a mystery. The audience is never allowed to start with information about everybody's motivation (outside of Picard's); only little hints of dialogue here and there and then cut to something else. I am hoping that mystery element pays off more in the end but I don't think it's really building up to any big reveal like Sinclair becoming Valen.

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                  • #39
                    I'm a bit on the fence. I didn't hate Ep. 5. It was a fun heist type thing. I can't say I ever really liked Voyager, so the Icheb thing is totally lost on me anyway. I expect Seven will be back fairly soon, being all badass.

                    Yeah, the tone is very different. But I know Steward had no interest in re-doing what they'd already done in TNG. I think we're well past Trek needing to to Roddenberry-esque. Hell, the writers on TNG were choming at the bit to push it a bit out of that 'everyone gets along' zone.
                    Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                    Kosh: Good!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Well, I quite enjoyed Ep.6. At least we are getting some tempo in the story. The whole thing did make me think a lot about the 'arc' issue that was discussed previously in this thread. The show so tightly focused on driving the central 'arc' plot that it's more like a long film, than an episodal TV series. But, this is becoming the norm these days. I do miss those episodes that create character depth.

                      I was thinking about the show so far, asking myself, what would 15 year old me (the massive TNG fan) have thought of it? I remember, I craved those 2 part episodes where we got an extended plot, but they felt so special because they were a stark contrast to the 'story of the week' format where everything was resolved neatly in 42 minutes. I think I would have loved it, but perhaps that contrast is important? I guess we have to face that TV has changed a lot.

                      One thing I do like is that I am watching weekly, which is how Trek used to be for me. A mandatory time slot every week where I would escape into that world.

                      My only niggle with the episode and, the one thing that totally broke my suspension of disbelief was Picard being so surprised that Hugh and his team could reverse an assimilation, when the exact same was done for him after being Locutus. How is this some kind of revelation, if the tech was already there for his own recovery?
                      Last edited by Ubik; 02-28-2020, 01:29 AM.
                      Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                      Kosh: Good!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Gotta love Red Letter Media... if you haven't watched their Star Wars prequels reviews... do so immediate ad laugh a lot. Anyhow, their Picard review are quite amusing and occasionally a bit scathing. But, it's all fair, this is that awful brand of 'you killed my childhood' Youtube sensationalism.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv-wmixiiMA
                        Last edited by Ubik; 03-01-2020, 12:39 PM.
                        Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                        Kosh: Good!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Well, I remember thinking the show had 'jumped the shark' in Episode 2, and episode 7 sees the return of that same feeling. I came out of this thinking the show is degenerating into complete garbage. That, or I am finally coming to terms with the fact it's fairly terrible. The writing is just.... well... a bit nonsensical, about 75% of the time. The script writers need a good talking to.

                          Whilst I was overjoyed to see certain old cast members return for a cameo, very little about this episode made sense, from character decisions to over arching plot. I wish this had been some kind of anthology show, or episodal like old Trek, because this arc is just THE WORST.

                          I am going to carry on watching, but this has lost me in terms of me taking it seriously as a TV show.

                          JoeD80 hit the nail on the head - this show does not understand how to balance an arc and have enjoyable stand along episodes! Episode 7 was just totally devoid of ANYTHING on its own. All the emotional attachments and sentimental moments felt rushed, forced and totally unbelievable. Nothing has been given any weight because the writers haven't dedicated any time to sketching out emotional attachments or motivations. There are so few nice character moments, and nothing is truly earned, it's all just shoved in your face in the stupidest way possible.

                          Don't even get me started on them killing off a character, or the Troi / Riker family loss thing. It was just so badly contrived.

                          In fact, that's a big problem here, I really couldn't care less for 99% of the characters thus far. Picard included.

                          URGH.
                          Last edited by Ubik; 03-09-2020, 10:50 AM.
                          Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                          Kosh: Good!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Bracing myself for Episode 8. Time to see if this can get any worse. Maybe Geordi can reprise his role, but as a badass bounty hunter who has issues! Through a freak accident with his visor, he now has laser vision like Superman. Yes, he can take down the borg queen when she inevitably shows up.
                            Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                            Kosh: Good!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Ubik View Post
                              Bracing myself for Episode 8. Time to see if this can get any worse. Maybe Geordi can reprise his role, but as a badass bounty hunter who has issues! Through a freak accident with his visor, he now has laser vision like Superman. Yes, he can take down the borg queen when she inevitably shows up.
                              Seven of nine
                              shows up, plugs in as the new Borg Queen, reactivates the cube then disconnects from the hive mind because "Annika Hansen has more work to do."


                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Kraig View Post

                                Seven of nine
                                shows up, plugs in as the new Borg Queen, reactivates the cube then disconnects from the hive mind because "Annika Hansen has more work to do."

                                May have done a big eye roll at that moment. Also, the whole spiel with Agnes Jurati saying the crew was 'family' or 'a gang' was just so dumb, as they've barely bonded at all.

                                Only thing I liked was that we got some Rios backstory, but kinda hated the way it linked into the arc in an awkward way.
                                Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                                Kosh: Good!

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