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  • #61
    I'll try to be brief (possibly a futile effort):

    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    The way I see it, Sam has an opinion, and it's exactly that, an opinion. I don't see the point in trying to nit pick flaws in his argument. We can all accept different points of view right? It's not an outright attack, and there's as much praise in there as there is criticism.
    A) I am very much open to dialogue and criticism - pick it apart, debate the substance of my argument, ignore it, whatever - but dismissing it with "get over yourself" is not exactly Lincoln-Douglas.

    Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
    Sam, the flaw in your argument is you make it sound as though somebody was forcing people to buy these books.
    B) Absolutely, you vote with your wallet. What I was expressing was that its not like there are 500 B5 script teams making competing product. There is only ONE group working on things of this nature. And I would VERY much like to spend money on these types of products, were they indispensable enough. And if they were, more people would get them, and if they did, the cost would be lower.

    Originally posted by OmahaStar View Post
    Yes, we know. Do you have anything new to contribute?
    C) And I DEFINITELY don't wish to even indirectly inspire anyone to be rude to one another here.

    Full disclosure: I BOUGHT the 2.5 book, for completist's sake. Here is my actual critique, boiled down:

    That the current books are too expensive, because the audience has dwindled due to oversaturation of books that were of diluted importance. And the books get pricier as it gets more "niche". And that the scripts team seems to think this should/could be a continuous process of unearthing/releasing things, as opposed to singular projects that fulfill a broader fandom desire.

    Not my intent to offend anyone.
    ---
    Sam.

    (BTW, I also have a couple of never-opened Asked & Answered books - Vol. 4 & 5 - I'd like to get rid of, PM me if interested.)
    Last edited by SamusekTDS; 02-01-2013, 11:37 AM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by OmahaStar View Post
      Yes, we know. Do you have anything new to contribute?
      Er...do you? Your last substantive post was #49 on this thread. Snide comments don't enhance the conversation.

      Jan
      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Jan View Post
        (Team hat - far more fetching than the Mod hat, thank goodness!)
        While in the interim I apologized in private for the misused phrase "devil's advocate" to Jan before - I didn't realize there was anyone ON the scripts team here... Because everyone is always being referred to Jaclyn if they have comments/concerns... so I believed I was having a discussion amongst fans/consumers. Doesn't change my opinion, though I might've been more careful about my words. (Though I feel I still made great pains to be polite/straightforward.)

        Originally posted by Jan View Post
        So...if we sometimes take comments like: ...kind of personally you need to forgive us and remember that you're talking directly to the people who put the books out, not some nameless entity. We understand that each book won't be for everyone but it stings to be accused of anything but wanting to put out a good product.
        Well, while you have your "Team hat" on, I acknowledged that obviously this is all very much a labor of love, and as pointed as my comments may have been, is it completely unfair (WARNING: melodrama!) to speculate that love, while not exactly blind, can often blind the person(s) in question? Not everything done in the name of love is great and good and pure.

        When the comment was made "why are the books so $$$" the response was given "well it costs a bunch to keep the team going all the time" to which I thought "wait why is team going ALL the time?"....

        All my previous compliments still stand. Anyway returning to substantive things:

        Originally posted by Jan View Post
        Funny thing about this is...I have a friend who decided not to buy the script books at all because they weren't going to include every single draft of every single script.
        I would've loved if the nigh-impossible would have been possible and we could've had "uber" versions of the scripts. Ones with all the different colored pages and stuff crossed out etc... like if anyone's seen the amazing Monty Python Holy Grail script book, a movie that went through astronomical amounts of revisions and edits. But that's just my film-geekery in dream form (I know that likely would've been done if it could've - just saying). Multiple versions, while far easier to produce, is less appealing - I want to see the process, but as much at a glance as possible.

        Originally posted by Jan View Post
        And if he'd like to see a widened appeal, then that's what he should share - here for the sake of discussion or to Captain Jaclyn if it might be something she might find worth considering.
        Sorry I missed this comment before. For the sake of discussion: I think I did just that in my first post on the subject, but to reiterate/abbreviate:

        Less is more. (quantity and $$$)
        Diminishing returns.
        Crusade scripts.
        Original work.
        Bring the whole of B5 fandom back into the fold.
        ---
        Sam.
        Last edited by SamusekTDS; 02-01-2013, 01:43 PM.

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        • #64
          At one point Captain Jaclyn had an account here but we can't locate it so here's another note from her:

          FYI FROM CAPTAIN JACLYN

          It must be hot in here. Several members of this group have emailed us asking for a response to this thread.

          1) Sales of B5 Books are consistent with our debut 8 years ago.

          2) The audience for B5 Books is growing not shrinking.
          Thank you Big Bang Theory for your references to Babylon 5.

          3) Higher priced books do not net higher profits.
          Higher prices are a result of higher expenses (actor signatures, content licensing, image licensing, Audio CDs).

          4) Our average return rate is 1 book for every 3,000 sold.
          Fans are happy with the product.

          5) Fans do NOT produce B5 Books.
          Jason Davis is a Media Historian with a specialty in Babylon 5 and many other pop-culture phenomena. We hired him as soon as he left his editorial position at Creative Screenwriting magazine. Captain Jaclyn is an Emmy Award-winning business journalist who had not seen Babylon 5 prior to meeting JMS. (Nor was she a Captain.)

          6) "...the audience has dwindled due to oversaturation of books that were of diluted importance."

          Our sales reports show the the audience has grown and due to our low-return rate we believe that every book we publish is a treasured addition to fan's libraries.

          Let us know if there is anything else you'd like us to address.

          Captain Jaclyn
          [email protected]
          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

          Comment


          • #65
            I stand humbled and corrected.

            And to be honest - utterly astonished that sales could possibly be higher now than during the scripts... I find that well and truly bizarre.
            ---
            Sam.
            Last edited by SamusekTDS; 02-01-2013, 01:57 PM.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by SamusekTDS View Post
              I stand humbled and corrected.

              And to be honest - utterly astonished that sales could possibly be higher now than during the scripts... I find that well and truly bizarre.
              ---
              Sam.
              When they're charging 175% of the rates they started with, it's not really all that bizarre.

              The "well you can always return it" line is getting old. How bout they give a great thing up front that will make fans happy, instead of feeling ripped off? I swear, between Nazzaro's obnoxious attitude over the last few months, and the script team's "bathroom sink" approach, I'm getting ready to pack it all in and either return the whole thing or stick it up on ebay and say to hell with it.
              "Jan Schroeder is insane" - J. Michael Straczynski, March 2008

              The Station: A Babylon 5 Podcast

              Comment


              • #67
                Sorry, Omaha. All I can say (speaking only as myself) is that, considering just how much information is given about the books in the emails and online, if you still choose to buy them and then feel somehow ripped off, it's a self-inflicted wound.

                Jan
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by OmahaStar View Post
                  When they're charging 175 percent of the rates they started with, it's not really all that bizarre.

                  The "well you can always return it" line is getting old. How bout they give a great thing up front that will make fans happy, instead of feeling ripped off? I swear, between Nazzaro's obnoxious attitude over the last few months, and the script team's "bathroom sink" approach, I'm getting ready to pack it all in and either return the whole thing or stick it up on ebay and say to hell with it.
                  Jaclyn said "the audience" is growing, not necessarily the profits. So yeah - that is bizarre... that MORE people are willing to pay MORE money for MORE esoteric stuff.

                  I just assumed the price increases were in part to compensate for significantly lower sales (while overhead remained similar).

                  So again: Huh. Go figure.

                  Does anyone know of another forum where this could be discussed? I'd love to hear what a broader sampling of fans/customers think on the subject. Its always us same old folks in here and by now we all know where each other stands on this all too well.

                  ---
                  Sam.
                  Last edited by SamusekTDS; 02-01-2013, 03:33 PM.

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                  • #69
                    I'm really sorry I offended people in some way with my obnoxious posts over the last month or two- oops, hadn't realized- I really haven't been here that much until today. But Omaha, if my oxnoxious (and possibly imaginary) attitude bothers you so much, feel free to go away. I certainly wouldn't presume to speak for anybody else here, but at this point, I wouldn't lose a lick of sleep if I never heard from you again.

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                    • #70
                      And now, any personal comments and conversations should be taken to PM.

                      Thank you for not making me put on my Moderator hat.

                      Jan
                      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
                        I'm really sorry I offended people in some way with my obnoxious posts over the last month or two- oops, hadn't realized- I really haven't been here that much until today. But Omaha, if my oxnoxious (and possibly imaginary) attitude bothers you so much, feel free to go away. I certainly wouldn't presume to speak for anybody else here, but at this point, I wouldn't lose a lick of sleep if I never heard from you again.
                        I believe Doctor Franklin said it best: "Stick it."

                        Originally posted by Jan View Post
                        And now, any personal comments and conversations should be taken to PM.

                        Thank you for not making me put on my Moderator hat.

                        Jan
                        I'm done with that ... person.
                        "Jan Schroeder is insane" - J. Michael Straczynski, March 2008

                        The Station: A Babylon 5 Podcast

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Posting as Moderator:

                          OmahaStar this is the only warning you'll get: One more insult - toward anybody - will result in a 10-day suspension.

                          Am I perfectly, crystal clear?

                          Jan
                          Moderator
                          Last edited by Jan; 02-01-2013, 06:20 PM.
                          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Jan View Post
                            At one point Captain Jaclyn had an account here but we can't locate it so here's another note from her:

                            FYI FROM CAPTAIN JACLYN

                            It must be hot in here. Several members of this group have emailed us asking for a response to this thread.

                            1) Sales of B5 Books are consistent with our debut 8 years ago.

                            2) The audience for B5 Books is growing not shrinking. Thank you Big Bang Theory for your references to Babylon 5.
                            Would this information be enough to continue to hope for more B5 screen stuff?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by timk519 View Post
                              Would this information be enough to continue to hope for more B5 screen stuff?
                              Screen stuff as in a new TV show or a feature film? I don't think it's relevant one way or another. It's all in the hands of WB and I doubt the B5 books are on their radar much.

                              Jan
                              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Jan View Post
                                Screen stuff as in a new TV show or a feature film? I don't think it's relevant one way or another. It's all in the hands of WB and I doubt the B5 books are on their radar much.

                                Jan
                                I'm sure there is a licensing attorney or such other creature deep within the labyrinth of the WB executive suites muttering 'my precious' over and over.

                                The thought of B5 possibly making a profit for anyone else having driven it to this sorry state of possessive paranoia.

                                Comment

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