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  • #16
    Originally posted by DeMonk View Post
    Already on the way, woo hoo.
    Mine on the way, too.
    That was *fast*
    Jan from Denmark

    My blog :

    http://www.babylonlurker.dk

    "Our thoughts form the Universe - they *always* matter"

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    • #17
      Ordered. Thanks for the coupon Jan.
      All generalizations are false, including this one.

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      • #18
        Just when I was convinced we were done with the B5 scripts, they drag us back in. Not thrilled about the price. Even with the bonus stuff, it's still just one episode/script, but they're keeping the high price tag. At least the coupon helps a little bit.

        A price point of $30, with a $20 introductory price, would have been more reasonable I feel.
        "Jan Schroeder is insane" - J. Michael Straczynski, March 2008

        The Station: A Babylon 5 Podcast

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        • #19
          Originally posted by OmahaStar View Post
          A price point of $30, with a $20 introductory price, would have been more reasonable I feel.
          I understand your feeling that way but you've got to understand that the audio and pictures came from a badly-stored VHS tape that's over 18 years old. It needed special handling and considerable remastering. All that adds to the cost of producing the book. Jason would know more about that then I do.

          Speaking just as a fan (not just a member of the scripts team), I think the extra value of the trilogy outlines adds nicely to the value. I know a lot of fans have never been able to read the trilogies because there's always one volume that's too expensive.

          Jan
          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by OmahaStar View Post
            Just when I was convinced we were done with the B5 scripts, they drag us back in. Not thrilled about the price. Even with the bonus stuff, it's still just one episode/script, but they're keeping the high price tag. At least the coupon helps a little bit.

            A price point of $30, with a $20 introductory price, would have been more reasonable I feel.
            That was kinda my reaction too, BUT in this case I can imagine that a lot of work went into the screen caps. I'll have more of an informed opinion once I have my copy. Not going to make a snap judgment before I've seen the thing.

            I've voiced concern before that the B5 books do seem a tad expensive, but at the end of the day it's a specialist product and I'm sure CafePress take a healthy chunk of the price. Of course, there's also a team of people involved, and time isn't cheap. Economies of scale probably don't rally apply here, as it's likely just a handful of rabid fans that buys these now. (At least that's the impression I get). Apologies if this debate has already been done to death in the past. Part of me suspects it has!

            Jan, if you have any info, I'd be curious what kind of numbers a typical B5 Books volume sells these days. Is it as niche as I think it is? I know the script books did very well when they were initially released.

            Would be interesting to see a break down of actual costs vs. unit price for a typical script book. I'm slowly amassing the original series of JMS Script books via Amazon and eBay. They don't exactly fetch a premium these days if left to regular market forces. Prices are still inflated 2nd hand but are coming down, which is good news for people like me who are late to the game.
            Last edited by Ubik; 01-25-2013, 01:10 PM.
            Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

            Kosh: Good!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Ubik View Post
              That was kinda my reaction too, BUT in this case I can imagine that a lot of work went into the screen caps. I'll have more of an informed opinion once I have my copy. Not going to make a snap judgment before I've seen the thing.
              And, as always, there's a money back guarantee, no questions asked.

              Keep in mind, too, that CP *only* does the fulfillment. Captain Jaclyn's team does all the rest and I'd defy anybody to say that these books are anything but professional looking or to say that the quality of her customer service is anything other than topnotch.

              Jan, if you have any info, I'd be curious what kind of numbers a typical B5 Books volume sells these days. Is it as niche as I think it is? I know the script books did very well when they were initially released.

              Would be interesting to see a break down of actual costs vs. unit price for a typical script book.
              Sorry, I don't have any of that information and the last time I heard, the contract with CafePress disallows discussion of sales numbers. Naturally, it's very much a niche market but the original series was doing well enough to get major coverage from USA Today for making POD records. That's some time ago now so I don't know if those records still are applicable. POD isn't nearly as looked down upon as it used to be when it was called 'vanity press'.

              Jan
              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by OmahaStar View Post
                Just when I was convinced we were done with the B5 scripts, they drag us back in. Not thrilled about the price. Even with the bonus stuff, it's still just one episode/script, but they're keeping the high price tag. At least the coupon helps a little bit.

                A price point of $30, with a $20 introductory price, would have been more reasonable I feel.

                I was a little ambivelent too Omaha, but in a way it is new B5, which is a plus, on the other hand, we are so far out from script book production at this point, to shoehorn this into the script book collection strikes me as a bit of a stretch.

                A nice Anniversary B5 book of some sort with this, and other content <cough> short stories <cough>, would have been nice, but I'm still glad to see any unrevealed B5 content.

                And Yes I ordered two copies, one for reading, and one for some IPX like organization to find in my tomb.
                What a wonderful world you live in. -
                Yeah, well, the rent is cheap, the pay is decent and I get to make my own hours.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ubik View Post
                  That was kinda my reaction too, BUT in this case I can imagine that a lot of work went into the screen caps. I'll have more of an informed opinion once I have my copy. Not going to make a snap judgment before I've seen the thing.

                  I've voiced concern before that the B5 books do seem a tad expensive, but at the end of the day it's a specialist product and I'm sure CafePress take a healthy chunk of the price.
                  In this case, there is also the question of cleaning up and remastering the soundtrack to go on CD, which doesn't come cheap.

                  As far as Cafepress is concerned, their book publishing costs are on their website. Notwithstanding that Publishing 180 and CP may have come to an alternative arrangement based on anticipated sales, the raw price for publishing your own, perfect-bound book at Cafepress is $7 binding fee plus $0.03 per page ... so a 260 page book (such as volume 2.5) would run to just shy of $15 in terms of CP's standard terms. That is what Cafepress receive on the deal.

                  Factor in the cost of producing the screencaps, cleaning up the audio and producing the CDs (which is likely to be up to another couple of $ each depending on how many they produce at a time), plus the cost of producing the bookmarks and postcards, plus the costs of the people who put the book together in the first place, and suddenly $39 doesn't seem quite so expensive.
                  The Optimist: The glass is half full
                  The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
                  The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by glindros View Post
                    ... on the other hand, we are so far out from script book production at this point, to shoehorn this into the script book collection strikes me as a bit of a stretch.
                    Would you rather we *didn't* publish it?

                    A nice Anniversary B5 book of some sort with this, and other content <cough> short stories <cough>, would have been nice, but I'm still glad to see any unrevealed B5 content.
                    Tell ya what...you contact the two out of business magazine companies to see about getting the rights to them and get back to us. Oh, and find out how much WB will want for permission to reprint them while you're at it, okay? Last I heard, any merchandising (which is what this would fall under) started at $10K and was negotiable - upward. Because the the only way those stories are going to be reprinted is if the rights can be obtained. JMS simply doesn't breach contracts and the rules for the stories and even the comics are *completely different* from the scripts. And after that we'd have to negotiate with Fiona Avery and J. Gregory Keyes.

                    Seriously...does anybody here think for a moment that if we *could* have published the short stories that we *wouldn't* have already? Really? It's only the most requested thing since the project started.

                    Originally posted by Garibaldis Hair
                    As far as Cafepress is concerned, their book publishing costs are on their website. Notwithstanding that Publishing 180 and CP may have come to an alternative arrangement based on anticipated sales, the raw price for publishing your own, perfect-bound book at Cafepress is $7 binding fee plus $0.03 per page ... so a 260 page book (such as volume 2.5) would run to just shy of $15 in terms of CP's standard terms. That is what Cafepress receive on the deal.

                    Factor in the cost of producing the screencaps, cleaning up the audio and producing the CDs (which is likely to be up to another couple of $ each depending on how many they produce at a time), plus the cost of producing the bookmarks and postcards, plus the costs of the people who put the book together in the first place, and suddenly $39 doesn't seem quite so expensive.
                    Thanks for actually looking it up and having an informed opinion.

                    Jan
                    Last edited by Jan; 01-25-2013, 11:25 PM.
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Jan View Post
                      Would you rather we *didn't* publish it?



                      Tell ya what...you contact the two out of business magazine companies to see about getting the rights to them and get back to us. Oh, and find out how much WB will want for permission to reprint them while you're at it, okay? Last I heard, any merchandising (which is what this would fall under) started at $10K and was negotiable - upward. Because the the only way those stories are going to be reprinted is if the rights can be obtained.

                      Seriously...does anybody here think for a moment that if we *could* have published the short stories that we *wouldn't* have already? Really? It's only the most requested thing since the project started.

                      Jan, I completely understand what you're saying. Try to look at it from an outside perspective for a moment. At the time of the USA Today article, not yet half of the scriptbooks had been released. The figure tossed about that they were going to get was 1.5 million bucks. That doesn't begin to cover the other voices, crusade, chronologies, or other books that have since been added.

                      From an outside perspective, compared with that huge chunk of money, that $10,000 fee - which, for all we know, could be lowered considering it is just reprints, AND it's jms we're talking about - is nothing.

                      To my knowledge, no one from the scripts team or jms has come out and said that yes, they've tried negotiating with Warner. Or even approached them. That leads one to think that the script team assumes that it would be too costly, without ever having tried.

                      A simple "We've tried" or "We have reached out to Warner" would go a long way to settle that.
                      "Jan Schroeder is insane" - J. Michael Straczynski, March 2008

                      The Station: A Babylon 5 Podcast

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by OmahaStar View Post
                        A simple "We've tried" or "We have reached out to Warner" would go a long way to settle that.
                        And maybe you'd get one if you were having this conversation with Captain Jaclyn ([email protected]) instead of here. But it's not anything I have any knowledge of or influence over. When you've got people spread from Florida to Kentucky to California, there's not a lot of opportunity for water cooler chats where I might pick something like that up casually.

                        I get frustrated when people have concerns that they post here (or on Twitter) but never email to her. Even if I did have absolute knowledge (I don't), it wouldn't be my place to discuss.

                        BTW, I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the WB money issue since that's data that I got during the Mongoose debacle and my discussions with what's-his-name.

                        Jan
                        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by KoshN
                          Wait, you're NOT omniscient?
                          Nah, just omnipresent. And one *hell* of a spam-basher!

                          Jan
                          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by KoshN
                            Wait, you're NOT omniscient?
                            I know, right? Jan trying to say she doesn't know everything? I'm calling shenanigans on that. :P She is absolutely my go-to person when I have a question about ... well, anything.

                            Originally posted by KoshN
                            All this makes me REALLY GLAD that I made DAMNED SURE that I bought all six of the magazine issues containing the B5 short stories when they first came out. If it has anything to do with Warner Brothers AND B5, that's what you HAVE TO DO.
                            Same here. Mostly. I had four of the issues when they first came out. I had photocopy versions of the other two stories, then eventually managed to track down the original issues via eBay, so I have all six now.

                            It's sad to think there are people even now who are starting out with the series, who will never be able to read them, or the novels. If they even find out they exist.
                            "Jan Schroeder is insane" - J. Michael Straczynski, March 2008

                            The Station: A Babylon 5 Podcast

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                            • #29
                              Jan, by no means were my comments an attack on you or the Scripts team.

                              I have talked to Captain Jaclyn and some things have been explained to me. I have collected most of the short stories at this point on my own, and was just venting among fellow B5 fans about hopes many of us here have. I will avoid bringing up the topic in the future.

                              And of course I'm grateful its published. To put it under the Script Book banner as opposed to it being a special release like "B5:Artifacts Beyond the Rim" seemed odd, however I understand why that was done and I look forward to its content.
                              What a wonderful world you live in. -
                              Yeah, well, the rent is cheap, the pay is decent and I get to make my own hours.

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                              • #30
                                Thanks for the coupon code. I'm glad I looked here before I put in the order.

                                Yet another thing to get Joe to scribble in...

                                Lee
                                Webmaster
                                SFTV.org
                                B520 ( http://www.azsf.net/b520 )

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