Question about the Crusade (other voices) books

[Triple F]

I was curious, did the (Excalibur) artwork come from a ‘book’ which Luc made up as a gift to jms – the only place that they’re all gathered together. I only ask as I was talking to him the other day (about something completely different) and I mentioned in passing it was nice to see some of his work being published.

http://www.cafepress.co.uk/b5books

Got to admit, I was a little surprised to learn he wasn’t contacted with regard to the Crusade books.

If he had, he would have made the original sketches available as the ones most likely used are pretty poor quality. I didn’t ask, but I’m guessing he could have also provided some first hand information on a wide range of topics surrounding the show, and various designs – including things like the Excalibur’s coat hanger ‘fast launch’ system and ‘bullet car’ transport systems which he created and developed.

Was there a reason why no one contacted him, was anyone connected with the show contacted about the books? (I haven’t asked Tim Earls, or anyone connected with the prosthetics. btw). As I said, I’m just curious.

[Jan]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe that a lot of the art in the last few books did come from JMS's storage facility.

I'm also pretty sure that none of the artists whose art we've featured in the past were contacted for input because that's not the point of the books - the art is something extra because it's so cool but the point has been the scripts and the writers. At some future time if there should be a book about the Art of Babylon 5 (which I think would be *very* cool), that's when it would be appropriate to contact the various artists.

Jan

[Joe Nazzaro]

I would love to see an 'Art of B5' book. Many years back, my wife and I talked to producer John Copeland about collaborating on one and we started moving things along, but of course we hadn't reckoned on the black hole of Warner Brother; the place where all creativity goes to die. It was a real shame, because there was more than enough material out there at the time to put together a really groovy-looking coffee table book.

[Triple F]

Yeah, I've heard quite a bit about the black hole and who works the strings. ; )


But going back to these books. Does that mean Warner were approached , and paid, in order to use the various pieces of artwork in the recent releases.

I always had the impression there was some question marks over copyright ownership of various things. For example, Jan purchased a few of the original sketches by Tim Earls on (presumably) ebay. Was it Warner who were selling them as they own the rights, or was it someone else, Tim himself!? If it was Tim that implies he has some control to the rights then howÆd some of the artwork end up in the books without contacting him.

Is the situation the same for the likes of Luc or the artists at Optic Nerve due to the different employment conditions. Are the books classed as B5 merchandising?

Was always told this was a grey area. ; )

[Jan]

Grey has a bit of a negative connotation. Given that the artists I've bought from still had the original artwork, it's safe to assume that they still owned those pieces. This is common and I gather that contracts where original drawings have to be turned in to a studio or comic company are fairly unusual.

As for what arrangements may or may not have been made with WB, I don't imagine that it's any of our business. If you disagree, you should probably ask Captain Jaclyn at Publishing 180.

Jan

[Garibaldi's Hair]

I always had the impression there was some question marks over copyright ownership of various things. For example, Jan purchased a few of the original sketches by Tim Earls on (presumably) ebay. Was it Warner who were selling them as they own the rights, or was it someone else, Tim himself!? If it was Tim that implies he has some control to the rights then howÆd some of the artwork end up in the books without contacting him.

Certainly in the UK my (admittedly limited) experience is that if an artist is permitted to keep his original sketch(es) then he is free to do with those physical items as he sees fit, but if the sketches were produced as part of a commercial commission then the artist doesn't have any control over what the commissioner does with them as far as use and publication is concerned.

[Joe Nazzaro]

I think you need to draw a distinction between ownership of the item itself and copyright for the material contained in it. The artist may be able to sell you the original, but it doesn't necessarily transfer copyright for the images and characters. If you were buying one of Tim's concept designs for example, you could frame it and put it on your wall, but you probably couldn't take it the printer and sell limited edition prints from it. And of course some artist may be contractually obligated to turn in all of the work for which they've been contracted. MInd you, the difference between an original and a copy gets even more blurred nowadays, where the artwork it created digitally, so there is no 'original' as such, because each copy is pretty much the same as the original. It all gets a bit confusing.

[Triple F]

Certainly in the UK my (admittedly limited) experience is that if an artist is permitted to keep his original sketch(es) then he is free to do with those physical items as he sees fit, but if the sketches were produced as part of a commercial commission then the artist doesn't have any control over what the commissioner does with them as far as use and publication is concerned.

Yeah, thatÆs the bit that's confusing me. I'm guessing Warner (if anyone) is the owner as they are the ones who ultimately commissioned the work. I could be very wrong in my understanding in this, the Crusade books are a purely jms project û not B5 merchandise requiring a licence. ThatÆs why I half expected the likes of Luc or Tim to have been involved.

Which opens up an interesting scenario, the artists û like jms û can create a purely personal project using the same and other images.

[Jan]

That would depend entirely on the contract and any contract JMS might have had would have been completely different from those of the artists who were very likely woking for hire (a contractual term, not a matter of opinion) rather than as creators.

Jan

[Andrew_Swallow]

Pat Tallman is selling a book containing her own photographs. She has called it 'Pleasure Threshold'.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Grey has a bit of a negative connotation. Given that the artists I've bought from still had the original artwork, it's safe to assume that they still owned those pieces. This is common and I gather that contracts where original drawings have to be turned in to a studio or comic company are fairly unusual.

As for what arrangements may or may not have been made with WB, I don't imagine that it's any of our business. If you disagree, you should probably ask Captain Jaclyn at Publishing 180.

Jan

As a person who works a lot with work-for-hire artists and obtaining concepts and am pretty in tune with the comic industry, I can attest to this being standard business practice. I very very rarely actually get a piece of original art for the concepts I ask for when I receive my comic art or concept art. A couple times the artists have been nice enough to give it to me because they liked working with me.

Even DC/Marvel, the artists usually keep their original art, which the companies allow them to sell (which is very nice to the artists, since they can make extra off of the same work).

Hope that helps.