Crusade: WTHH - Vol. 1 - SPOILERS

[Ubik]

Right, received my copy of Crusade - WTHH Vol 1 last week.

I really enjoyed Joe’s introductory chapter, and found it to be quite the eye opener. Some of those stories about the casting are just too much! I do get the impression JMS would have been wise to resist his wander down the ‘velvet alley’. Admittedly, I’m not the biggest Crusade fan, but JMS’ account still made for very interesting reading. He tells it through gritted teeth, but with more humour than most could muster given how utterly dense TNT were in their handling of the show. The overiding impression I get from the book is that Cruasade should have never gone ahead with the meagre budget and the many compromises that were made.

Much of the rest of the book gets a bit too bogged down in detail for my tastes. The multiple iterations of pitches and early treatments were interesting, to an extent, but I began to glaze over a bit when I’d read 2-3 versions of what was essentially the same document with minor changes. Some will love this level of detail, but it’s just not what I’m after.

I was hoping for more material like the intro chapter; so more of the behind the scenes machinations and issues encountered. That introduction was the real meaty stuff, and I wanted more of it. The scripts are interesting, but I’m not a massive script freak, or a fan of the show that resulted, so this book had an uphill battle on its hands to win me over!

Not bad, but ultimately… not for me.

[Ubik]

The part that really made me chuckle was WB nixing Michael York (who wanted the part) as captain of the Excalibur on the grounds that he is British ...

Damn, I could definitely see him playing Gideon! Although it would have definitely changed the character a great deal. Even so, how cool would that have been!?

[Ubik]

I liked the WTHH book since after the first watch, Crusade starts to grow on you and the book shows that there could have been so much more

It wasn't classic B5 (er...TOS?), but the cast had great chemistry from the start. I thought the most under used was Daniel Dae Kim as Lt. Matheson.
As a telepath in EarthForce he was an interesting character.

I agree, Matheson had the potential to be a really good character, and it would have been great to explore the Corps and its role following the Telepath War.

Crusade is such a tough show to evaluate because of the limited number of episodes we got. Perhaps the books will give me a greater appreciation of the existing material? There are some good episodes, but as a whole, it never really clicked with me. It probably would have if it had run longer and kicked into the intended arc.

The episodes that were made were *okay* but it was clear that JMS was running on empty and really needed a break after B5, which he admitted himself. I also felt the CGi had remained slightly 'stuck in the past', and wasn’t quite up to scratch. Things had moved on by the time Crusade was made, but Netter Digital clearly hadn't. That isn’t to say some of the design work wasn’t really good, but the execution felt a bit lacking to me.

I'm always very interested in the processes that take place behind the scenes, so I imagine the WTHH book will make interesting reading, regardless of my slightly lukewarm feelings about the series.

[DaveNarn]

I liked the WTHH book since after the first watch, Crusade starts to grow on you and the book shows that there could have been so much more

It wasn't classic B5 (er...TOS?), but the cast had great chemistry from the start. I thought the most under used was Daniel Dae Kim as Lt. Matheson.
As a telepath in EarthForce he was an interesting character.

[Ubik]

Just ordered this book. I finally gave in to the urge to check it out. I've never been that taken by Crusade, although I must admit to REALLY liking the episode "The Path of Sorrows". The rest just didn't grab me and felt a bit sub-par, but it's such a hard show to judge as it was never given time to really develop.

One thing I loved about the black script books were all JMS' forewords and production related stories, so I figured I'd give the book a try on that basis.

More feedback after I've received my copy!

[JoeD80]

Always complete the written part of your assignments before the big test

I like both versions of the script, but I think the first version has more of a focus on the action aspects. Sounded like Joe was mostly happy with how the episode came out though, although it was still supposed to be the lead off episode...I'm looking forward to the commentary on War Zone.

[KoshN]

It is the main guns. Page 37 of the first draft script. He's waiting for them to power up for a second shot:

Mea culpa. I was thinking of the aired version. D'oh!

[JoeD80]

Gideon didn't keep them talking while powering up the main gun. He kept them talking while destroying the disc ships (interceptor/sample-takers) with the secondary (Whitestar class, green beams) guns.

It is the main guns. Page 37 of the first draft script. He's waiting for them to power up for a second shot:

We SEE from the display that the power the the main guns is building slowly: 40% CAPACITY - UNABLE TO FIRE... 50% CAPACITY-UNABLE TO FIRE.

ALIEN
We have examined your records. You have a history of violence, of loyalty based on mutual convenience and reward.
...[etc.]...
No one alive.. has ever denied us.

Gideon sees that the weapons console reads 80%... 90%...

GIDEON
In that case, I don't see that we have much choice. As we say back home -- a colloquialism, you may not be familiar with it -- (friendly smile)
Blow it out your butt.

And as we SEE the alien working to process what was just said, Gideon nods, and the First Officer FIRES.

EXT. EXCALIBUR - MAIN GUNS

As they FIRE.

[KoshN]

^
Nikita Pilot on tonight!

On topic: you can really see in the first draft of Racing the Night what JMS meant when he said it would be an action series. The aliens have no further motivation beyond that they're bastards. No plague on their planet and endless explanations, just "uh yeah, we either kill people or find them worthy and let them do work for us" and then Gideon keeps then talking while powering up the main guns. Great stuff.

Gideon didn't keep them talking while powering up the main gun. He kept them talking while destroying the disc ships (interceptor/sample-takers) with the secondary (Whitestar class, green beams) guns.

I have "Crusade-What The Hell Happened-Volume 1" but haven't had time to do more than quickly glance at its contents. Too busy trying to get caught up with last seasons TV shows (The Big Bang Theory, Criminal Minds, Castle & Human Target), before the new season started. I still am not caught up with How I Met Your Mother, Rules of Engagement, Two and a Half Men, NCIS, NCIS-LA, CSI-NY, V or The Middle.

[KoshN]

Oddly enough, I don't really think the original draft is any better. The setting and story are... well... pardon the phrase, but they're bullshit. It's like a bad Star Trek episode. Come on, Evil Trap Planet? Not just Evil Trap Civilization or Evil Trap Ruins, but Evil Trap Planet? Planets are pretty big.

There are many elements of Crusade that I like - particularly some of the actors and characters, including Gary Cole as the very cool Captain Gideon - but the scriptbook doesn't really convince me that this could've been a good show. The execution got all messed up, true, but there are also very many conceptual problems that had nothing to do with TNT.

Other than Gideon firing at the planet with the main gun, while the ship was under the influence of the enhanced gravitational field, and the ship not even lurching as it quit resisting (and losing orbit) with the engines, I think they did a pretty good job with "Racing the Night."

From what I've read in this thread, I like the aired version of "Racing the Night" more than the previous versions.

Remember, the grey/red uniform episodes, which includes "Racing the Night," were the ones that suffered the least TNT meddling.

[JoeD80]

Evil Trap Planet? Planets are pretty big.

Not all planets are Earth-sized. And it wasn't like the planet did this on its own; it was the aliens living there that got tech from the other aliens to do it. Also remember that the equations were in a specific spot on the planet to lure the ships in. It's not like the trap just grabbed ships randomly passing by.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Oddly enough, I don't really think the original draft is any better. The setting and story are... well... pardon the phrase, but they're bullshit. It's like a bad Star Trek episode. Come on, Evil Trap Planet? Not just Evil Trap Civilization or Evil Trap Ruins, but Evil Trap Planet? Planets are pretty big.

There are many elements of Crusade that I like - particularly some of the actors and characters, including Gary Cole as the very cool Captain Gideon - but the scriptbook doesn't really convince me that this could've been a good show. The execution got all messed up, true, but there are also very many conceptual problems that had nothing to do with TNT.

I kinda like the idea of an Evil Trap Planet

[Jonas]

^
Nikita Pilot on tonight!

On topic: you can really see in the first draft of Racing the Night what JMS meant when he said it would be an action series. The aliens have no further motivation beyond that they're bastards. No plague on their planet and endless explanations, just "uh yeah, we either kill people or find them worthy and let them do work for us" and then Gideon keeps then talking while powering up the main guns. Great stuff.

Oddly enough, I don't really think the original draft is any better. The setting and story are... well... pardon the phrase, but they're bullshit. It's like a bad Star Trek episode. Come on, Evil Trap Planet? Not just Evil Trap Civilization or Evil Trap Ruins, but Evil Trap Planet? Planets are pretty big.

There are many elements of Crusade that I like - particularly some of the actors and characters, including Gary Cole as the very cool Captain Gideon - but the scriptbook doesn't really convince me that this could've been a good show. The execution got all messed up, true, but there are also very many conceptual problems that had nothing to do with TNT.

[KoshN]

However, "La Femme Nikita" (TV) lasted more than 13 episodes.

[JoeD80]

^
Nikita Pilot on tonight!

On topic: you can really see in the first draft of Racing the Night what JMS meant when he said it would be an action series. The aliens have no further motivation beyond that they're bastards. No plague on their planet and endless explanations, just "uh yeah, we either kill people or find them worthy and let them do work for us" and then Gideon keeps then talking while powering up the main guns. Great stuff.