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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    I think it was more the price gouging and seemingly unlimited stock aspect that got my goat.
    I don't have any problem with unlimited stock as long as the right people are making them available. Yes, I understand that some folks bought additional sets as investments but I'm reasonably sure there aren't that many. And it's not as though investments are ever assured of success. But if JMS/Captain Jaclyn came out tomorrow and said that they'd decided that the limited character of the original release was a disservice to the fans (as I've thought from the beginning) and they wanted to release them again, I'd be perfectly fine with that because IMO, getting the show exposure by 'any means necessary' (so to speak) is more important than any wish to make the books collectibles. The only thing I'd like to see as a concession to the fans who bought the original ones, is that the price be original cover price or higher and preferably, not re-issue volume 15. But that's me. No idea if they might even consider that.

    "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Jan View Post

      Ah, I thought I remembered that some of them weren't working and you were feeling...stifled.
      Oh that was ages ago. I thought you meant more recent. I knew there had been recent complaints about things, but I wasn't one of those involved - but I probably should have been.

      Originally posted by Jan View Post
      It's only our business insofar as being told that it's being handled. How the rack and thumbscrews are applied are up to the 'pain technicians'. And I'm sorry, but at $250 each, I cannot in any way think of that as being 'widely available'.
      "Widely availble" meaning via Amazon. Just like if I'd been able to walk into a Wal-Mart and buy the script books when they first started coming out.
      Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Jan View Post

        I don't have any problem with unlimited stock as long as the right people are making them available. Yes, I understand that some folks bought additional sets as investments but I'm reasonably sure there aren't that many. And it's not as though investments are ever assured of success. But if JMS/Captain Jaclyn came out tomorrow and said that they'd decided that the limited character of the original release was a disservice to the fans (as I've thought from the beginning) and they wanted to release them again, I'd be perfectly fine with that because IMO, getting the show exposure by 'any means necessary' (so to speak) is more important than any wish to make the books collectibles. The only thing I'd like to see as a concession to the fans who bought the original ones, is that the price be original cover price or higher and preferably, not re-issue volume 15. But that's me. No idea if they might even consider that.
        Agree 100% Jan, I have always argued that a limited run POD book was a bit of an oxymoron, and I've never been a fan of the "buy now now now'! FOMO marketing that B5 Books sometimes employ. But, they're a business and it's not my place to dictate to them how they market their books.

        I'd also be fine with re-issues. I'd rather fans have access to these than not. With the advent of eBooks, it actually gives a new (and far cheaper avenue) to get something out there. It's also far greener in terms resource useage, when the environment is becoming such a pressing concern.
        Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

        Kosh: Good!

        Comment


        • #19
          Just noticed this (due to folks talking about it) I see the listing for the script books are still there . . . Is it really that difficult/awkward for the copyright owner to have something like that quickly removed from Amazon –. . . Especially as they have dealings with Amazon on other publications. If it is, then that's not cool if pirating books is so easy to do on such a large and established platform

          While I’m here, and Captain Jaclyn is involved in the thread. Is the Paperback edition of the Encyclopaedia (with black and white images) legit. . . . I heard it came out about the same time as the script books, and it comes with a year membership to the online multimedia do-da.

          https://www.amazon.com/Babylon-Encyc...dp/163077054X/


          If these are being put out by some group looking to get an opportunist chunk of change from some unsuspecting fans it might be worth a bit of digging into, then possibly doing a post over on the behind the scenes FB page to let more folks know what’s going on.

          [edit]
          Has jms been told about these script books (on twitter or wherever) he’s usually pretty good at letting fans know when they’re being ripped off by dodgy merchandise, and these do directly affect him as they’re his scripts/publications so I’d expect he would be less than pleased. . . Livid wouldn’t be too strong a word . . assuming they are rip-offs that is.
          Last edited by Triple F; 08-28-2019, 08:50 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Triple F View Post
            While I’m here, and Captain Jaclyn is involved in the thread.
            I wouldn't count on her watching this thread. I'd pointed out the information by emailing [email protected] and she came by. Suggest you use the same method if you have questions.

            "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

            Comment


            • #21
              B5Books attorneys don’t seem to be having much luck. . . Script books are still there.

              I am mildly curious about something though, Jan. . . When someone puts up a t-shirt for sale on the B5 Facebook group that includes an image of an actor or a quote from jms. . . You go straight for the throat of the person selling it. . . . So anyone seeing that post knows it’s a knock-off and not official in any way. . . . But here’s someone (possibly) scanning and reproducing the entire script book series and you’re saying nothing other than repeatedly telling people to e-mail B5Books . . . . That’s most unlike you, going by your usual response for something as inconsequential (and inexpensive)as t-shirts. . . . If these script books were a knock off I’d be expecting you to be hanging from the rafters screaming bloody murder at anyone daring to rip-off jms’s scripts, posts would be going up on all the FB pages and groups you admin warning people not to purchase them. . . . It’s a strange sort of day when it ends up I’m the one posting about it. .. . . and you getting snarky about it over on FB. . . . .

              So here’s the question, why is it an issue for you that I posted about it on FB and asked anyone with a twitter account that they might want to ask jms if he knows what’s going on, for clarification and to save newbies who don’t know about B5Books mistakenly purchasing them. . . . (I don’t have, or want, a twitter account)

              BTW are you being deliberately obtuse with this reply to the post, or do you genuinely not appreciate that newbies aren’t as well versed with the online history of B5, who is involved, where to go for info, what to look out for, etc.

              What does being a 'new' or 'old' fan have to do with anything at all? Ass-u-me whatever you like. There's an easy solution noted above and something you're as capable of doing as any other fan. Do you choose not to?
              Axel Leossat Only issue I have is that Tom's trying to get other folks to do what he's obviously unwilling to do.
              Pretty aggressive, almost angry, replies to a post that’s repeating the concerns that others raised on other forums. . . Yet you say nothing about those concerns other than email B5Books. . . . . Why? Jaclyn Easton has already said the lawyers are on it and I’d imagine she would inform fans of any developments. . . So why E-mail them!? I even included what she said in the post!


              I put up that post as this, for some at least, is potentially a very real fan related issue and the responsible course of action would be to get it out there – to warn folks if nothing else. . . Or don’t you agree. . . Sorry, technically that’s three questions.
              Last edited by Triple F; 08-30-2019, 12:24 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                I am still kinda stunned this hasn't attracted more attention, especially from the old guard / fans that used to rabidly discuss the script books here.
                Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                Kosh: Good!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Triple F View Post
                  B5Books attorneys don’t seem to be having much luck. . . Script books are still there.

                  I am mildly curious about something though, Jan. . . When someone puts up a t-shirt for sale on the B5 Facebook group that includes an image of an actor or a quote from jms. . . You go straight for the throat of the person selling it. . . . So anyone seeing that post knows it’s a knock-off and not official in any way. . . . But here’s someone (possibly) scanning and reproducing the entire script book series and you’re saying nothing other than repeatedly telling people to e-mail B5Books . . . . That’s most unlike you, going by your usual response for something as inconsequential (and inexpensive)as t-shirts. . . . If these script books were a knock off I’d be expecting you to be hanging from the rafters screaming bloody murder at anyone daring to rip-off jms’s scripts, posts would be going up on all the FB pages and groups you admin warning people not to purchase them. . . . It’s a strange sort of day when it ends up I’m the one posting about it. .. . . and you getting snarky about it over on FB. . . . .

                  So here’s the question, why is it an issue for you that I posted about it on FB and asked anyone with a twitter account that they might want to ask jms if he knows what’s going on, for clarification and to save newbies who don’t know about B5Books mistakenly purchasing them. . . . (I don’t have, or want, a twitter account)

                  BTW are you being deliberately obtuse with this reply to the post, or do you genuinely not appreciate that newbies aren’t as well versed with the online history of B5, who is involved, where to go for info, what to look out for, etc.





                  Pretty aggressive, almost angry, replies to a post that’s repeating the concerns that others raised on other forums. . . Yet you say nothing about those concerns other than email B5Books. . . . . Why? Jaclyn Easton has already said the lawyers are on it and I’d imagine she would inform fans of any developments. . . So why E-mail them!? I even included what she said in the post!


                  I put up that post as this, for some at least, is potentially a very real fan related issue and the responsible course of action would be to get it out there – to warn folks if nothing else. . . Or don’t you agree. . . Sorry, technically that’s three questions.
                  Oh, this is too funny. Really, Tom, are you being deliberately dense? Honestly? Okay, let me explain it in the simplest words I can:

                  - First off, when there are bootleg t-shirts and hoodies, all I post is that it's unlicensed crap unless somebody tries to defend it.
                  - Second, I have every faith that Captain Jaclyn can run her own business. If she wants my help, I'll be happy to post and note that it's at her request, just as I always have in the past.
                  - It's Jaclyn's business, regardless of what arrangements she has or doesn't have with JMS. She's the one to handle it. Maybe, if this silly thing were spreading like wildfire instead of the tempest in a teacup it actually is, it might be worth asking JMS. In my opinion it's not, especially given his recent injury. You want other people to contact him when you refuse to do so. As you refuse to contact Jaclyn. Care to explain what that's always the case? It does seem odd...
                  - Can you really think I need to 'warn' people not to buy a $250 book?!?! Obviously I have no way of knowing if any or how many have sold but remembering how many people needed to be educated about the original price of the script books, I'm really not worried.

                  You regularly and consistently refuse to ever address anything on your own with the people actually involved; you'd apparently rather make insinuations and leave innuendos about things you cannot possibly have any actual knowledge of. It gets old and annoying after a while. You pretend to have an informed opinion while showing no desire to actually address the source. So, yeah, after all this time, I'm gonna jab you when you refuse to do the common sense thing which, as stated, is to contact Captain Jaclyn. Don't worry, she answers questions even if you're not a customer. Always has.

                  Captain Jaclyn has addressed the question in the two places that I know of where it's come up. Well, I think she didn't post to your page. But it's been adequately covered.

                  If you have any further questions, address them to Captain Jaclyn or JMS directly.
                  Last edited by Jan; 08-30-2019, 01:06 PM.
                  "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jan View Post

                    Oh, this is too funny. Really, Tom, are you being deliberately dense? Honestly? Okay, let me explain it in the simplest words I can:

                    - First off, when there are bootleg t-shirts and hoodies, all I post is that it's unlicensed crap unless somebody tries to defend it.
                    - Second, I have every faith that Captain Jaclyn can run her own business. If she wants my help, I'll be happy to post and note that it's at her request, just as I always have in the past.
                    - It's Jaclyn's business, regardless of what arrangements she has or doesn't have with JMS. She's the one to handle it. Maybe, if this silly thing were spreading like wildfire instead of the tempest in a teacup it actually is, it might be worth asking JMS. In my opinion it's not, especially given his recent injury. You want other people to contact him when you refuse to do so. As you refuse to contact Jaclyn. Care to explain what that's always the case? It does seem odd...
                    - Can you really think I need to 'warn' people not to buy a $250 book?!?! Obviously I have no way of knowing if any or how many have sold but remembering how many people needed to be educated about the original price of the script books, I'm really not worried.

                    You regularly and consistently refuse to ever address anything on your own with the people actually involved; you'd apparently rather make insinuations and leave innuendos about things you cannot possibly have any actual knowledge of. It gets old and annoying after a while. You pretend to have an informed opinion while showing no desire to actually address the source. So, yeah, after all this time, I'm gonna jab you when you refuse to do the common sense thing which, as stated, is to contact Captain Jaclyn. Don't worry, she answers questions even if you're not a customer. Always has.

                    Captain Jaclyn has addressed the question in the two places that I know of where it's come up. Well, I think she didn't post to your page. But it's been adequately covered.

                    If you have any further questions, address them to Captain Jaclyn or JMS directly.
                    I’ve told you before – but as usual and as with so many other things - you ignore it so you can make a mystery out of it again the next time. It’s one part of this game we seemed to have got locked into. . . I HAVE tried contacting B5Books, but over on FB for example when I ask a question on their page, someone always hides the post so no one else can see it – and so far at least there’s never been a reply. . . Is that clear enough for you. Oh yeah, there’s still the contacting jms one.

                    Ah, the innuendo thing, another part of the mystery and why does he do what he does do-da. . . You’ve been using that one ever since I first published B5Scrolls and that “tone” you don’t like that runs through it. You’re way off base. . . . You know, over the years I do get the feeling sometimes that you think I’m mojo or something. I certainly got that impression the time you and jms turned up on the Behind the scenes page and it ended up with me being threatened with a six figure lawsuit if I continued to show the artwork the artists sent over for inclusion to the free and downloadable scrolls. . . . . Hold on, isn’t that also some of the SAME artwork that was published in B5 @ 20 around the same time of your “visit”. . . . Does that count as innuendo on my part.

                    So you see, even if I had a Twitter account I do get the distinct impression jms wouldn’t respond. . . I don’t think he likes me very much. . . . I first got that impression when he told me (very angrily) never to post on his FB page again (this was a year or two before you two turned up on the behind the scenes page with the lawsuit thing) . . . Hold on, you were there that first time as well. I answered a fan question that had been posted on jms’s page and remained unanswered for a few days, the guy thanked me and mistakenly thought I was connected with the show because I was posting using the “Babylon 5 – Behind the Scenes” id – the FB page had just been put up and a bit of advertising does no harm, or at least that’s what I thought). But before I was back on FB to see and correct his mistake, you popped up to tell him I had nothing to do with jms or the show, then jms had turned up straight after you and he started with the trying to exploit fans thing!? . . . Considering that was the first time I’d ever even came close to jms, his level of reaction was more than a little surprising. . . . . I’ve never understood where this all comes from. . . . Is it because of that “tone” on B5Scrolls!? Anyway, apart from not having a twitter account, that’s why I don’t ask jms questions. He’s made his opinions very clear – three times in total, and again, you were involved with the third one as well . . . . Not an insinuation, but a fact.

                    BTW. If Jacyln or anyone else suspects’s I’m out to get them, THEY can always contact me either in a reply or PM. . . I promise to answer. . . . ..

                    Thank you for answering the question(s) about your reasons for responding in relation to the book, or lack there of, and let me be absolutely clear about this, I don’t believe a f’ing word of it.

                    Did I say anything about Jacyln’s business and how she runs it. . . Nope . . . Stop trying to deflect this into muddier waters. But I will say this, and I didn’t have this opinion before you started with the prodding, again. . . . You are a HUGE jms fan, most folks here including yourself will acknowledge that. . . . So your apparent - and continued –indifference to his scripts being possibly ripped-off (no matter what the price) just doesn’t ring true, for me at least. It leaves the impression your not going ape about it because you already know that it isn’t someone stealing and selling them . . . And the reason for the rather annoyed response has more to do with me posting about something that would rather not be pointed at. Though of course, that is just a personal opinion, though having opinions you don’t agree with really seems to get under your skin for a reason that completely eludes me.

                    BTW. Regarding that post I made on facebook, rather than talking about it, lets look at it . . . . Please show me where the insinuations and innuendo is (or that pretending to have an informed opinion you mentioned). . . . I REALLY do want to see what your seeing, I’m serious BTW. I might genuinely not be wording things very well, so if that’s the root of this decade long ankle biting, prodding and baiting you’ve been up to I really would like to know so I can possibly fix it. I remember asking the same question when you first brought up the "tone" running through the site. . . .

                    Strange question, I know. . . . I also wouldn’t normally concern myself with such a thing, but some bugger had to go and message me and ask about it. . . And I didn’t know the answer.

                    It turns out that over on Reddit a fan raised some concerns about this earlier in the week. . .

                    https://www.reddit.com/…/b5_script_book_reprints_on_amazon…/

                    A few days later another fan brought it up over on the JMSNews forums. . .

                    New copies of ALL the script books (which were retired years ago), have appeared on separate listings on Amazon . . And they’re being sold at – wait for it – 250 bucks per book!. . . These books were always meant to be a limited run, and fans were promised at the time that they would never be printed again. Personally I always felt putting a limit like that on POD books was a bit of a crazy idea. But giving them a degree of rarity, making them collectables and investment, was part of how they were being marketed back in the day.

                    Anyway, that promise of never reprinting them seems to be the basis of the concerns raised by the fan over on Reddit. . . They were so concerned they contacted Amazon who stated that the sale of these new Print On Demand books was indeed being authorised by B5Books!

                    However, when the question was later raised over on JMSNews, Jaclyn Easton of B5Books replied with this comment – which does strongly suggest the books on Amazon are not legit. . . .

                    ----------------------------------
                    https://forums.jmsnews.com/…/153962-script-books-via-amazon…
                    “Hey Everyone,
                    Thank you for letting us know about this issue. Scary. Our attorneys are on it.”
                    ----------------------------------

                    It’s a bit of a minor squall in a saucer - but it could potentially be a costly one if anyone purchases these in good faith. Remember, the show is getting a lot of new fans due to it streaming on a couple of platforms right now. . . .

                    But there’s an element to this which I haven’t noticed anyone else raise – and this is why I’m posting this. . . . The old guard amongst the fan base will be well aware that jms is pretty good about letting fans know when they are being ripped off with dodgy merchandise. . . These scripts (and books) belong to jms, who wrote and published them . . . He hasn’t commented or raised any red flags over on twitter, almost certainly because he doesn’t know about it. . . . . I imagine he will be livid – to say the least - when he does.

                    So on the one hand we have Amazon saying the script books are legit and the printing of them are authorised by B5Books. . . On the other hand you have the owner of B5Books saying they’ve got they’re lawyers looking into it . . .

                    I don’t have a twitter account so if anyone reading this does, they can do fans and possibly jms a bit of a favour by tweeting him, and asking if he knows about what’s going on with HIS script books on Amazon. . .

                    https://www.amazon.com/Babylon-Scripts-J-Michael-Straczy…/…/

                    BTW, I responded to you on here rather than a little known, rarely viewed FB page because I wanted to point something out to you. Out in the open so to speak.

                    I’m not sure of the number, someone listed them off to me once, but you admin something like 10 or 12 different FB groups and actual FB pages – give or take a couple. . . So I’d like the benefit of your much greater experience in that role than I have.

                    If you had someone turning up on one of your pages/groups and they insisted on trying to lure you into arguments – taking little digs, complaining, questioning your motivations for posting things, your integrity and honesty and generally being a bit of toxic presence on that page . . and they’ve been doing since the page went up (not eventually as you stated). What would you do? I imagine you wouldn’t be stupid enough to engage with them every time- that’s one way for a FB page to get a bad rep - so do you simply ignore them, hide their posts or take the more drastic step of banning their arse if they don’t stop doing it. . . .

                    So again speaking plainly, your on notice Jan, and you can take that as the unimportant thing that it is. . . But I’m telling you out here in the open so you can’t say I did it on the quite. . . Enough is enough, some of the stuff you’ve came out with over the years (not necessarily on FB) was bordering on actionable. Keep up this badgering and throwing around the muck on my own page FFS and I will permanently ban you. . . . Of course, that shouldn't mean anything to you . . .But I really am tired of this, and banning someone is - lets face it - more a symbolic act on my part. . . . I’ve only ever banned one other person, and that was the clown who tried to get a couple of NASA artists fired when I posted about the nod to B5 on one of their renders.
                    Last edited by Triple F; 08-30-2019, 03:44 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Triple F View Post

                      I’ve told you before – but as usual and as with so many other things - you ignore it so you can make a mystery out of it again the next time. It’s one part of this game we seemed to have got locked into. . . I HAVE tried contacting B5Books, but over on FB for example when I ask a question on their page, someone always hides the post so no one else can see it – and so far at least there’s never been a reply. . . Is that clear enough for you.
                      Don't know how their page works. I've suggested to you many, many, many times that the best way to reach them is by emailing [email protected] which you continue to refuse to do even though I post the email addres every. single. time. for your convenience. Don't understand why, but it's up to you if you want to not have effective communication.

                      Ah, the innuendo thing, another part of the mystery and why does he do what he does do-da. . . You’ve been using that one ever since I first published B5Scrolls and that “tone” you don’t like that runs through it. You’re way off base. . . . You know, over the years I do get the feeling sometimes that you think I’m mojo or something. I certainly got that impression the time you and jms turned up on the Behind the scenes page and it ended up with me being threatened with a six figure lawsuit if I continued to show the artwork the artists sent over for inclusion to the free and downloadable scrolls. . . . . Hold on, isn’t that also some of the SAME artwork that was published in B5 @ 20 around the same time of your “visit”. . . . Does that count as innuendo on my part.
                      Yep. Sure does. You keep putting JMS and me into the same sentences. What he did or didn't do has nothing at all to do with anything I posted and vice-versa. Despite having the same initials, we're different people. What he may or may not have threatened you with has nothing to do with me.

                      So you see, even if I had a Twitter account I do get the distinct impression jms wouldn’t respond. . . I don’t think he likes me very much. . . . I first got that impression when he told me (very angrily) never to post on his FB page again (this was a year or two before you two turned up on the behind the scenes page with the lawsuit thing) . . . Hold on, you were there that first time as well. I answered a fan question that had been posted on jms’s page and remained unanswered for a few days, the guy thanked me and mistakenly thought I was connected with the show because I was posting using the “Babylon 5 – Behind the Scenes” id – the FB page had just been put up and a bit of advertising does no harm, or at least that’s what I thought). But before I was back on FB to see and correct his mistake, you popped up to tell him I had nothing to do with jms or the show, then jms had turned up straight after you and he started with the trying to exploit fans thing!? . . . Considering that was the first time I’d ever even came close to jms, his level of reaction was more than a little surprising. . . . . I’ve never understood where this all comes from. . . . Is it because of that “tone” on B5Scrolls!? Anyway, apart from not having a twitter account, that’s why I don’t ask jms questions. He’s made his opinions very clear – three times in total, and again, you were involved with the third one as well . . . . Not an insinuation, but a fact.
                      Again you pull the "you two" crap. Stop it. Now. I've never said anything about suing you over anything whatsoever. So don't *ever* insinuate that I might have again. Is that clear? I may have been in the neighborhood when JMS had something to say to you. That doesn't in any way make me "involved". Don't try to suggest that I did again, am I clear?

                      BTW. If Jacyln or anyone else suspects’s I’m out to get them, THEY can always contact me either in a reply or PM. . . I promise to answer. . . . ..

                      Thank you for answering the question(s) about your reasons for responding in relation to the book, or lack there of, and let me be absolutely clear about this, I don’t believe a f’ing word of it.
                      And this is supposed to change the facts...how? Right, it doesn't.

                      Did I say anything about Jacyln’s business and how she runs it. . . Nope . . . Stop trying to deflect this into muddier waters.
                      Right. Of course. This was snark about her attorneys. Ever so sorry. </sarcasm>
                      :
                      B5Books attorneys don’t seem to be having much luck. . . Script books are still there.
                      As though Amazon doesn't probably have many thousands of copyright infringement notices to deal with every single day. Any questions, please feel free to email [email protected]

                      But I will say this, and I didn’t have this opinion before you started with the prodding, again. . . . You are a HUGE jms fan, most folks here including yourself will acknowledge that. . . . So your apparent - and continued –indifference to his scripts being possibly ripped-off (no matter what the price) just doesn’t ring true, for me at least. It leaves the impression your not going ape about it because you already know that it isn’t someone stealing and selling them . . . And the reason for the rather annoyed response has more to do with me posting about something that would rather not be pointed at. Though of course, that is just a personal opinion, though having opinions you don’t agree with really seems to get under your skin for a reason that completely eludes me.
                      To paraphrase Delenn, "You're wrong, of course." Yes, I'm a major JMS fan. I don't really care a whit whether you believe or not. Indifference? No, I did what any concerned fan would do: I notified the one who could most effectively deal with it and then got out of the way to let them handle it. Far, far more effective than running around FB, I think most would agree.

                      BTW, I responded to you on here rather than a little known, rarely viewed FB page because I wanted to point something out to you. Out in the open so to speak.
                      You mean your page? The one with 15.5K followers? That 'little known, rarely viewed FB page'? I should only have so many followers on any of the pages I admin!

                      I’m not sure of the number, someone listed them off to me once, but you admin something like 10 or 12 different FB groups and actual FB pages – give or take a couple. . . So I’d like the benefit of your much greater experience in that role than I have.
                      I do?? Why the hell hasn't anybody ever told ME that?!? Fact: the pages & groups related to Babylon 5 that I admin are:

                      - JMSnews.com FB page
                      - Babylon 5, a page I was asked to take over when the fan who made it didn't want it any more - pretty inactive all the time
                      - Free Babylon 5 - pretty inactive these days.
                      - The Zocalo Today which I offered to help with when Sandy Bruckner died along with another fan
                      - The Observation Dome along with 4 others
                      - Babylon 5 FAQ & Urban Legends created with a few others

                      So - six FB pages/groups related to B5 or JMS. Plus two others unrelated to either of those. Short of "10 or 12", wouldn't you say?

                      If you had someone turning up on one of your pages/groups and they insisted on trying to lure you into arguments – taking little digs, complaining, questioning your motivations for posting things, your integrity and honesty and generally being a bit of toxic presence on that page . . and they’ve been doing since the page went up (not eventually as you stated). What would you do? I imagine you wouldn’t be stupid enough to engage with them every time- that’s one way for a FB page to get a bad rep - so do you simply ignore them, hide their posts or take the more drastic step of banning their arse if they don’t stop doing it. . .
                      I do have. See the member to whom I'm responding. He's recently decided to pretend that I follow him around when, with a single exception, I've been around far, far longer than he has. I don't hide his posts, generally ignore him and don't ban him out of a perhaps misplaced belief in free speech.

                      So again speaking plainly, your on notice Jan, and you can take that as the unimportant thing that it is. . . But I’m telling you out here in the open so you can’t say I did it on the quite. . . Enough is enough, some of the stuff you’ve came out with over the years (not necessarily on FB) was bordering on actionable. Keep up this badgering and throwing around the muck on my own page FFS and I will permanently ban you. . . . Of course, that shouldn't mean anything to you . . .But I really am tired of this, and banning someone is - lets face it - more a symbolic act on my part. . . . I’ve only ever banned one other person, and that was the clown who tried to get a couple of NASA artists fired when I posted about the nod to B5 on one of their renders.
                      Excuse me? "On notice"? "Bordering on actionable"? <snicker> I've done nothing to you Tom, and nobody dictates to me how I interact with anybody online. You, on the other hand, just in this single post I'm answering have lied about me a number of times.

                      I've always said that despite my reservations, I thought your site was a valuable one for fans and went on record at least twice hoping you'd bring it back when you took it down when you were in a snit. So maybe if you stop trying to conflate me with JMS and/or Captain Jaclyn and the B5 Books, you'll be happier and we could co-exist a little better.

                      "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Last post on this. I noticed you didn’t take the opportunity to actually show me where the post on FB included innuendo or insinuations. . . . . But that’s how this works, isn’t it. . . . . You have a perception, a feeling, and you base your viewpoint on that. . . . You said the post contained stuff which is why you reacted, but you can’t actually point to any of it. . . . . Anyway. Why let facts get in the way of a good witch hunt. . . and that’s what it sometimes feels like.

                        I link you and jms together in the above comment because your connection is so close that this sort of things happens. . . . There was a post over on B5TV where folks were discussing Crusade. I noticed it and joined in as I knew about an interview that would add something new to the discussion.. . . . . . It was an article which was written around the time Crusade was cancelled. . . . Here's the link.

                        https://web.archive.org/web/20160714...6crusadea4.asp

                        In that article the author took a more neutral approach to the situation and as part of that he included some information from not only jms but also someone who actually worked at TNT. . . . . . . Hearing from someone on that side of the fence is on the unusual side, so I figured it would make a good addition.

                        Less than 4 HOURS after I posted a link to that article on an old discussion forum which these days few visit, you replied with an Email jms sent to you regarding what I’d just linked to and had said on the forum. . . . . That sort of thing (and the two other instances) is why I link you to jms. I mean, I’m on a discussion forum yet even there he pops up (with YOU). . . . . I don’t mind heated discussions where people disagree, there was a time I even enjoyed them. But it's kind of difficult to reply when the other guy literally posts it in . . . But here’s the email you introduced.

                        I was alerted to the conversation going on at B5tv.com about Crusade and wanted to dispel – once more – some absolute and provable inaccuracies about what’s being put out there (again). So feel free to repost.

                        The five scripts which I told them I wouldn’t do were the LAST five, not the first five. I takes a particularly amazing kind of stupid to suggest such a thing because the end of that conversation was “then there’s no show.” That was the day they pulled the plug. Had this been a meeting about the first five episodes, and they pulled the plug, then there wouldn’t have been a first five episodes, now would there?

                        What the clown posting here also fails to understand is that sometimes articles and interviews get it wrong: they misquote, they get things out of order, especially a post like the one referenced here.
                        To the point that the notes were not read: again, do you really think, for even a second, that I would wander in and be given notes for the first time and I’d simply refuse to read them? No, of course not. I had been given the 20+ pages of notes at the tail end of a process that had dragged on for roughly a dozen episodes by then. I was sent the notes, read them, realized that I could not do them and maintain any kind of integrity for the show, and went in to the meeting to tell them no. I never said I didn’t read them, I said I wasn’t going to do them. But the pinhead who posts here with seeming “inside” information gets that wrong as well, which is especially astonishing since there are so many OTHER interviews and articles out there that do give the correct chronology. But it’s easier to make a straw man argument when you just ignore the other 99% to cherry-pick the one you want to believe.

                        There are reams of correspondence between myself and TNT over the notes that season. Where we could, we tried to accommodate; where they violated every principle of drama, we didn’t. But the notes got increasingly egregious. What we didn’t know at the time was that during B5 TNT did a survey of their audience and found out they didn’t like SF. TNT then began looking for an excuse to pull the plug and get out of the contract. The key way to do this was to demonstrate that we weren’t giving them the show they wanted, and the way you do that is to give notes so awful, so terrible, that no producer in his right mind would oblige. Like the notes on “The Well of Forever” that instructed us to solve the problem by having Gideon – the star of our show – arrange for one of his crew members to be raped by the episode’s antagonist so he could be caught with his pants literally around his ankles and blackmailed.

                        Let me repeat: TNT insisted on having the star of our show, the hero of our story, arrange for one of his crew members to be raped to solve a story problem.

                        And that was not the exception, that was emblematic of their notes.

                        As for Mongoose…some of the folks who were there have been picking and sniping at me for decades since that whole debacle, and I can’t believe it’s still going on. Why did I have a problem with Mongoose publishing B5 novels? BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T HAVE A LICENSE TO DO B5 NOVELS, THAT’S WHY. They had a license for nonfiction books and print material supporting the games but that’s all. They kept trying to turn this into a novel license by just doing them and sneaking them out. I didn’t want any company that was not an established publishing firm with a solid track record in quality novels to get anywhere near B5. Despite that, I still went so far as to read the stuff, wanting to give them a chance to prove me wrong, and it was just dreadful. Some of the proposed Mongoose “novels” were fan fiction they found ON LINE which they wanted to then just publish and charge people for what they could be (and had been) reading for free.

                        The job of the licensor is to assure the quality of the product never falls below a level representative of the show’s quality. So I wasn’t about to let crap get out there because ultimately it would reflect badly on the show that we authorized something like that, which would have been especially galling since WE NEVER AUTHORIZED IT.

                        As to the B5 video game…no, I never asked them to do it all over again, and the idea is profoundly ridiculous because Christy Marx and others who were there at the time have gone on record many times saying exactly what happened inside the company when suddenly they were hit by cutbacks and budget shortfalls that ended up torpedoing the game.

                        But it’s easier to blame an “egomaniacal producer” and spread repeatedly-debunked rumors than to actually do the work entailed to find out what really happened. Normally I wouldn’t even bother to respond but this particular nonsense has been going on now for twenty years and I’m tired of it.

                        Grow the fuck up and if you’re going to start making accusations or spreading stories, take the time to do your homework to find out what really happened, because in the 20-plus years since B5 and Crusade, it’s all in the public record. As another show was wont to say, the truth is out there.

                        And apparently, so are the idiots.

                        And both, it seems, are eternal.
                        Now first off, and I’m not saying it was you, you just delivered the message. . . . But who the hell “alerted” jms to a conversation amongst fans. . . What was that person hoping to achieve. . . . . You could rightly say he was responding to stuff I said, but he also laced his reply with terms like “What the clown posting here also fails to understand ” and “Grow the fuck up and if you’re going to start making accusations or spreading stories, take the time to do your homework” . . . . And that seems to be the problem. . . I DO do my homework, I’m well aware of what jms says publicly, I’m also well aware of what others have said both publicly and privately. . . . And sharing some of that, disagreeing with jms, really is a problem for him. . . and his fans, like you. . . . . . I wasn’t chasing after him, hounding him, but talking with some other fans on a discussion forum. . . . Think about that for a second. . . .

                        The whole point of linking to the article was to show a viewpoint that WAS NOT jms’s. . . . . . it’s a DISCUSSION forum, not a promote jms forum. His interactions with fans is a truly great thing. . . But getting a fresh (or different) perspective once in a while is generally a good (and even healthy) thing. . . Though that’s just another personal viewpoint. But the Crusade situation, or the game situation, Mongoose, etc, isn’t what’s being discussed here. . . . You asked why I sometimes link you with jms. . . . I gave a couple of examples earlier, that was another.

                        I mean seriously, it was an open discussion on a board and yet jms feels the need to send YOU an email. . . . . I’d have been more than happy for him to turn up on that board (or even this one) and I’d respond to his comments directly with more links, and stuff. . . . . So now we have the situation where he chased me away from his FB page for answering a fan question (by linking to a quote on B5Scrolls BTW, that was it, that was what I did wrong). . . . . He’s threatened a lawsuit for creating a free fan site that holds some artwork (and detailed behind the scenes interviews with people who don’t have the initials jms) . . . . . . . And after doing that, he’s now replying to comments on a board after an article is linked to shedding some light (or at least someone who worked at TNT’s perspective) on Crusade. . . . . and you were there each time.

                        I have an idea what the root of the problem is – you partially hinted at it when you earlier mentioned I ”pretend to have an informed opinion”, and you revealed another part of it when you said you wish you had 15 and half thousand folk liking any of the FB pages you admin. . . . . I love jms’s interactions with fans – I genuinely think they are great. . . . But I do also believe that there’s an inherent set of potential problems when just one person’s point of view is over relied on, or the situation exists where other viewpoints and perspectives are shot down so easily just because they don’t match what jms has said – I don’t refer to my opinions or perspectives, but those of other people who created the show, made the game, where involved with TNT, etc. . . . and as a major hardcore jms fan you have some issues with that.

                        jms can and does talk shit – and without intending to, when others talk about a subject the short comings in jms’s comments can sometimes be revealed. . . . He’s also a professional TV producer who wants to promote certain things. . . . Now that’s just common sense - not an attack. But ever since B5Scrolls was published, you seem to be viewing whatever I do as a constant assault on the guy. . . . . It really isn’t, but I also don’t just accept everything that he says either.

                        Anyway. That’s it. . . But I’m serious about the banning thing. Cut back on the snipping and we can continue to happily disagree about stuff.
                        Last edited by Triple F; 08-31-2019, 10:48 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Not going to the pain of quoting again.

                          Thanks for the information on the B5TV discussion. Sure would have made sense if you'd actually named it above. You know - just to make sure people are understanding the same things, right? To make it clear, I don't know who alerted JMS. Nor do I care. For all I know he stumbled upon it himself in an idle moment. Wouldn't have been the first time. He asked me to pass along his message and I did so. As to him posting directly to the B5TV forums registration (as I recall) requires getting a return email, a system that's often broken. Shooting me an email is far simpler, especially if that's all he intends to say about the matter.

                          I don't have any problem at all with people having different opinions about JMS. Why should I? I've disagreed with him quite a number of times myself. However, having been around for a while, I'm likely to know what actually happened at the time it happened.

                          When and if you start posting from primary information from the folks you're discussing, ie., B5 Books and or JMS, then I'll stop suggesting that you do so - every time I see you supposing and conjecturing without actual knowledge. I'm willing to bet that you didn't do anything as silly as try to conduct all of your interviews for your site via FB threads or message boards. Why do you continue to attempt to do so in the case of JMS & B5 Books? Serious question I've asked a number of times: why do you constantly refuse to do so? So the solution is clear. Start communicating with the people you're reporting on directly and then letting your followers see what they say. Or keep getting publicly called on the fact that you don't. If you have one of your little snits and ban me, that's your prerogative as admin. Just as it is to keep putting your site and FB page up and down like a see-saw when you get in a mood. Not my problem if you want to keep looking silly. Note that there's no winky or smiley there.

                          "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            WHEN IN THE HELL AM I GOING TO GET TO SEE YOU TWO IN THE SAME ROOM TOGETHER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! WE HAVE GOT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN . . . . AND SELL TICKETS!!!!!

                            I am not going to lie. I haven't read a line past the first couple of posts and I don't plan to because Looney doesn't like to read that much. (You better not be hurting each others feelings!!!!! )

                            But seriously, we need to do a B5 Convention. You two can have a panel EVERY day. That is a panel I would gladly pay to see, but it is going to be so tough to hold my tongue and just watch. I mean I will throw out debate questions and then try to stay silent. WAIT, are you guys married? LMAO LMAO (You're right Jan. I do pat myself on the back too much.)
                            Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Looney View Post
                              WHEN IN THE HELL AM I GOING TO GET TO SEE YOU TWO IN THE SAME ROOM TOGETHER?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! WE HAVE GOT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN . . . . AND SELL TICKETS!!!!!

                              I am not going to lie. I haven't read a line past the first couple of posts and I don't plan to because Looney doesn't like to read that much. (You better not be hurting each others feelings!!!!! )

                              But seriously, we need to do a B5 Convention. You two can have a panel EVERY day. That is a panel I would gladly pay to see, but it is going to be so tough to hold my tongue and just watch. I mean I will throw out debate questions and then try to stay silent. WAIT, are you guys married? LMAO LMAO (You're right Jan. I do pat myself on the back too much.)
                              There's a thing called the Atlantic stopping that from ever happening. . . . and will you change your user ID ffs . . . Do you have any idea how awkward it is addressing someone as Looney.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Triple F View Post

                                and will you change your user ID ffs . . . Do you have any idea how awkward it is addressing someone as Looney.
                                HAHAHAHA!!!!! I am what I am, but I am more than willing to read suggestions on what everyone thinks I should call myself. If you ask my mother she would probably say "Bastard", but people might like using that one too much.

                                And who am I kidding. My mother worships me. LMAO
                                Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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