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  • Yes, but I am too tired right now to elucidate. Maybe tomorrow. There's always tomorrow...
    Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Rallytbk
      I don't condone what they are doing, but if it is protected then my actions should be protected as well.
      Originally posted by Jan
      Which actions? I think I missed something.
      I participated in the liberation of Kuwait in 1991 and some people have expressed themselves for and against the actions of the militaryà
      While I will not condone or support AmericaÆs use of military force to remove Saddam out of Kuwait or now in Iraq. I will say thisà I was in the military, I was trained for a job and I did my job to the best of my abilities. If people want to protest what a solder is doing, then I say take it to the Commander and Chief ôpresidentö. Protesting an individual will only cause outrage and pain for their families and result in something less favorable for the protesters. Plus: the president and congress have a better shot at stopping the war (police action/occupation) then outraged parents of dead solders (who may not side with the protesters).

      Originally posted by Rallytbk
      I now ask where would we (as a collective whole) draw the line?
      Posted by manwithnoname
      National Alliance
      Posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
      Mexican/Mexican-American group û MECha

      (Thanks for the examples)

      When they start to interrupt our lives with their anti-social, anti-establishment, anti-American rants? Or when they take it too far and hurt people physically to reach their goals? Will there be anyone to support our American ideas and lifestyles or will we cower in the face of the protesters?
      "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rallytbk
        IWhen they start to interrupt our lives with their anti-social, anti-establishment, anti-American rants?
        Nope. Our voice is as free as theirs is. It's easy to celebrate freedom of speach when we agree with what's being said. Much harder when we don't agree or violently disagree.
        Or when they take it too far and hurt people physically to reach their goals?
        Perhaps. As long as the ones protesting don't get blamed *if* the spectators and/or police start violence first.
        Will there be anyone to support our American ideas and lifestyles or will we cower in the face of the protesters?
        Will there be anyone to respect our ideals if we don't live up to them, even when it's difficult?

        Jan
        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

        Comment


        • Why should I respect people who hold placards at a cemetary that read "Fag Enablers go to Hell", "Thank God for 9-11", and other such comments, when a family is burying their child who died while serving their country? That is precisely what is happening, hence the various bills being proposed or passed in the city, state and federal levels of government.

          The federal government is only applying this to the cemetaries on federal land. State and City governments are working on similar bills in regard to cemetaries that they own.

          A family has every right to bury one of their own with peace and respect.

          This idiotic group's free speech is NOT BEING EXTINGUISHED. Their site is still open. Their "church" is still meeting on Sundays.

          I may be very cynical about my government, however not in regard to this issue.
          RIP Coach Larry Finch
          Thank you Memphis Grizzlies for a great season.
          Play like your fake girlfriend died today - new Notre Dame motivational sign

          Comment


          • Originally posted by WillieStealAndHow
            Why should I respect people who hold placards at a cemetary that read "Fag Enablers go to Hell", "Thank God for 9-11", and other such comments, when a family is burying their child who died while serving their country? That is precisely what is happening, hence the various bills being proposed or passed in the city, state and federal levels of government.
            I don't recall saying anybody has to respect it. Allow it, yes. The same way that KKK rallys are allowed. Everybody in the US has the right to be as crack-brained as they like and say stupid, irreverent, offensive things.

            A family has every right to bury one of their own with peace and respect.
            Sure...except that that right's not in the constitution, is it?

            Jan
            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

            Comment


            • There is no free speech violation here. None at all. Like I said above, they can go say what they want one hundred miles away.

              SCOTUS just ruled that government whistleblowers aren't protected by the FA, so why would some backwoods yokels be protected to spew their bile on the grounds of a military cemetary?
              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

              Comment


              • One of the Bill of Rights specifically states that not all rights are listed in the Bill of Rights.

                You could argue that since speech is listed, it trumps the other.

                Something that's slowly coming out of my head though says otherwise. The ideal of free speech, anywhere, is an important one. It has to be defended. But it also needs context. We have to allow speech that is horribly offensive. No arguement there. But there's nothing that says the delivery of that speech, the deliberate method, engineered to be as offensive for maximum impact, has to be as protected.

                It's a fine line. Splitting split hairs. But I starting think that as long as speech isn't being channeled away from the public eye, out of sight and out of mind, down the alley where the agents wait, it's something we might want to consider. Marking the graveyards as out of bounds doesn't strike me as channeling speech away from focus. I have nothing against a group being obscenely offensive to everyone. I do have a problem with a group targeting obscenity to one specific group.

                Allow me to put it this way - would you let the KKK march in Harlem?
                Radhil Trebors
                Persona Under Construction

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Radhil
                  One of the Bill of Rights specifically states that not all rights are listed in the Bill of Rights.

                  You could argue that since speech is listed, it trumps the other.

                  Something that's slowly coming out of my head though says otherwise. The ideal of free speech, anywhere, is an important one. It has to be defended. But it also needs context. We have to allow speech that is horribly offensive. No arguement there. But there's nothing that says the delivery of that speech, the deliberate method, engineered to be as offensive for maximum impact, has to be as protected.

                  It's a fine line. Splitting split hairs. But I starting think that as long as speech isn't being channeled away from the public eye, out of sight and out of mind, down the alley where the agents wait, it's something we might want to consider. Marking the graveyards as out of bounds doesn't strike me as channeling speech away from focus. I have nothing against a group being obscenely offensive to everyone. I do have a problem with a group targeting obscenity to one specific group.
                  Let these muppetfuckers go on national TV (and they have, mind you) and scream it from a mountain. But don't let them near the FUNERALS OF DEAD TROOPS.

                  Allow me to put it this way - would you let the KKK march in Harlem?
                  Yep. Imagine what would happen to them.
                  Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                    Yep. Imagine what would happen to them.
                    Point taken. That does bring a bit of joy to it.

                    But you'd also get half the city in flames, and a lot of OTHER dead folk, and that's kinda the point I was aiming for.
                    Radhil Trebors
                    Persona Under Construction

                    Comment


                    • But these days the KKK is so much of a fringe group that they're not even a threat. At their height, the second KKK featured something like 25% of white American males as members. Now, they're primarily a bunch of hicks.
                      Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Radhil
                        I have nothing against a group being obscenely offensive to everyone. I do have a problem with a group targeting obscenity to one specific groupà
                        Allow me to put it this way - would you let the KKK march in Harlem?
                        Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                        Yep. Imagine what would happen to them
                        The funny thing about this statement is that the city and state will deny the permit for the KKK to march in Harlem, not because of their civil rights, but for public safety. If they were allowed the people of Harlem could form an anti- KKK rally or take it to another level and/or riot to counter their march, because of views. Is it right? No, but the majority still rules in certain cases and the Mob mentality is alive and well in America.

                        Protesting dead solders during funerals will one day, I am afraid will bring violence from an unintended party, then all hell will break loose.
                        "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • I think that thugs who disturb a funeral should be publicly flogged. For a start.

                          BTW : If you see this :

                          http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...src=rss&rpc=22

                          don't worry. Crackpots. No way in Hell they will get anywhere. People would rather start a revolution. The Dutch are not 'liberal' in every respect.

                          Speaking of which : Does anybody agree that the word 'respect' is the most abused word in most of the Western languages nowadays?

                          And if you want to have a good laugh read this, it's priceless in it's ignorance :

                          http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...418660,00.html
                          "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Towelmaster
                            I think that thugs who disturb a funeral should be publicly flogged. For a start.

                            BTW : If you see this :

                            http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...src=rss&rpc=22

                            don't worry. Crackpots. No way in Hell they will get anywhere. People would rather start a revolution. The Dutch are not 'liberal' in every respect.
                            There is already a movement here. NAMBLA. Heh, in the words of Dennis Miller: "The North American My Balls Lack Attachment society!"

                            Speaking of which : Does anybody agree that the word 'respect' is the most abused word in most of the Western languages nowadays?

                            And if you want to have a good laugh read this, it's priceless in it's ignorance :

                            http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...418660,00.html
                            They read some of it on Fox & Friends this morning. Unintentional comedy gold. Scary comedy.
                            Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Radhil
                              Allow me to put it this way - would you let the KKK march in Harlem?
                              Yes. These days blacks are allowed to buy guns. I like problems that solve themselves.
                              Andrew Swallow

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jan
                                I don't recall saying anybody has to respect it. Allow it, yes. The same way that KKK rallys are allowed. Everybody in the US has the right to be as crack-brained as they like and say stupid, irreverent, offensive things.



                                Sure...except that that right's not in the constitution, is it?

                                Jan
                                Um...aside from making complete jackasses of themselves, what is the point of a group or individual, protesting A FUNERAL?

                                Saying that free speech is being restrained when the government has the audacity to create and pass a bill that puts a buffer zone around federal cemetaries that are used to bury fallen soldiers because some hate group under the auspices of a "church" decide to picket a funeral to make their point, is bullshit.
                                Last edited by David Panzer; 05-30-2006, 01:15 PM.
                                RIP Coach Larry Finch
                                Thank you Memphis Grizzlies for a great season.
                                Play like your fake girlfriend died today - new Notre Dame motivational sign

                                Comment

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