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The Rampant, Irresponsible Religion Thread

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  • manwithnoname
    replied
    Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
    Which is why you gotta take the law into your own hands sometimes. If I go to jail, then I go to jail. But I'm not going to stand by while somebody does that shit to MY loved one's funeral.
    The law that's been passed pertains to military funerals, not civilian's.

    Does anyone here have a friend or family member currently serving?

    The two guys I still keep in contact with that served in the Marine Corps with me are out. I don't have any family members serving.

    So, Z'Dweller, if you go to jail, is that a left wing thing or a right wing thing? I ask b/c you like to label things in political extremes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    Originally posted by Radhil
    I know this is beating a topic to death (in the wrong thread no less), but Jan's got me wondering where the fine lines are. What constitutes criminal harassment? How much does a mob get a free pass because (a) they have a political agenda and/or (b) they are a religious group?

    Either way, in the end, it's snakes or vermin winning this out, and that's a fairly horrid position for those in mourning.
    Which is why you gotta take the law into your own hands sometimes. If I go to jail, then I go to jail. But I'm not going to stand by while somebody does that shit to MY loved one's funeral.

    Leave a comment:


  • Radhil
    replied
    I know this is beating a topic to death (in the wrong thread no less), but Jan's got me wondering where the fine lines are. What constitutes criminal harassment? How much does a mob get a free pass because (a) they have a political agenda and/or (b) they are a religious group?

    Either way, in the end, it's snakes or vermin winning this out, and that's a fairly horrid position for those in mourning.
    Last edited by Radhil; 05-25-2006, 03:10 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by manwithnoname
    See, the way this group is protesting is very similar to the way protesters were/are protesting some family planning (Planned Parenthood over here) clinics. The abortion clinic protesters yell, through various objects and suspicious fluids/solids, and spit, among other things.

    I'm not saying this "church" group is throwing things, but their methods are infringing on others' rights.

    Do you defend this type of protesting, Jan? Someone asked you that question earlier. It's a good question.
    My answer to the original question is #191 in this thread:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WorkerCaste
    You know, I think this is the first time you and I have really disagreed in the various off-topic discussions! I'm not convinced it's a gnat. What's your opinion of the law regarding protesting outside family planning clinics?

    Jan's answer (the part that pertained to that question):
    Just the same and I've been harrassed by them in the past, many times in the late 70's/early 80's.
    I don't have any personal experience with fluids/throwing things but if that had happened to me, there'd have been an assault charge in no time flat. When I was going to clinics it was yelling hollaring, pictures of dead babies, 'bloody' babies on crosses etc.. They'd get pretty close but they got out of my way as I walked to the clinic. This was in the days before the clinics would have their employees or volunteers escort patrons in.

    Originally posted by manwithnoname
    Both sides make valid arguments for and against. Now that the legislation is passed, only time will give the necessary hindsight to allow us to see if it's used judiciously. We'll see if certain groups will use this law to supress protesting when it's in their interest. Time will tell.
    Probably not. The ACLU has already swung into action so it'll be blocked, never enforced but those politicians will be able to go back and tell folks that they voted to protect the grieving families of our fallen heroes...posturing on the corpses of those men-now that's sick.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    It isn't restricting free speech. They can say what they want, but son of a bitch, do it somewhere fifty miles away. Luckily, we have people like the Patriot Guard to make sure these religious kooks stay away from sacred funerals.

    Leave a comment:


  • manwithnoname
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan
    If we muzzled everybody in this country who's ignorant to six decimal places, there wouldn't be anybody left able to speak about much of anybody.

    But it'd be peaceful.

    Jan
    That's why this is a tough issue. Even peaceful protests can disturb or infringe on others. On this subject, I understand both sides. I'm torn, really.

    During the Civil Rights Movement, masses of poeple clogged the streets and disrupted the normal flow of everyday living while protesting. So...I understand your POV.

    Both sides make valid arguments for and against. Now that the legislation is passed, only time will give the necessary hindsight to allow us to see if it's used judiciously. We'll see if certain groups will use this law to supress protesting when it's in their interest. Time will tell.

    This is one of those double-edge sword laws; it cuts both ways.

    Leave a comment:


  • manwithnoname
    replied
    See, the way this group is protesting is very similar to the way protesters were/are protesting some family planning (Planned Parenthood over here) clinics. The abortion clinic protesters yell, through various objects and suspicious fluids/solids, and spit, among other things.

    I'm not saying this "church" group is throwing things, but their methods are infringing on others' rights.

    Do you defend this type of protesting, Jan? Someone asked you that question earlier. It's a good question.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by manwithnoname
    In this particular case, they're not protesting in any way, shape, or form that's considered peaceful.

    Freedom of speech, yes.
    And that's my point, actually, although I got sidetracked. I despise what they're saying with every fiber of my being but I defend their right to say it. If we muzzled everybody in this country who's ignorant to six decimal places, there wouldn't be anybody left able to speak about much of anybody.

    But it'd be peaceful.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • manwithnoname
    replied
    Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
    "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."-Revelation 19:11-13
    Yo, Z'Dweller. You can start a Rampant Random Bible quote thread if you want. Just so you know. What you posted is considered off topic.

    <wink>

    Leave a comment:


  • manwithnoname
    replied
    Originally posted by rallytbk
    As an American...
    Ditto.

    Originally posted by rallytbk
    ...a combat veteran...
    Ditto.

    Originally posted by rallytbk
    ...and tax paying/voter it pains me to see people protesting the wrong people.
    Ditto.

    Leave a comment:


  • manwithnoname
    replied
    Interesting discussion going on here from what I posted.

    The "church" group has been on the Howard Stern show several times before his escape to satellite. Their form of protesting is to shout at the top of their lungs: "God hates fags!" & "Burn in Hell!" & "God hates America!"

    In this particular case, they're not protesting in any way, shape, or form that's considered peaceful.

    Freedom of speech, yes.

    This group is not peacefully protesting. They are desecrating a moment. As someone pointed out earlier, they should be protesting at Washinton, DC.

    On the other hand, I do see what Jan is saying about using a sledgehammer against a gnat and political posturing.

    Sometimes, despite politicians' posturing and clamoring for the spotlight/attention ("See what I'm doing for the country?"), they actually do some good.

    If this was a case of peaceful protesters, that's a different situation altogether, but it's not.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by WillieStealAndHow
    One would think that people would have the decency to allow a family to grieve without seeing such filth.
    One would think. But the Federal Government (or State or Local) has no business legislating manners. If we allow it when the group being supressed is one we disapprove of, what's to stop them when it's us?

    Originally posted by rallytbk
    They all should just go to Washington DC and try that with the Federal Government. Sure it is their right to protest, but IMHO they are pointing it in the wrong directionà
    That's their right also. Maybe it's a waste of time but that's their call, nobody else's.

    Jan
    Last edited by Jan; 05-25-2006, 01:29 PM.

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  • rallytbk
    replied
    Just so you know, I am reading the comments going back and forth in this thread... As an American, a combat veteran and tax paying/voter it pains me to see people protesting the wrong people.

    They all should just go to Washington DC and try that with the Federal Government. Sure it is their right to protest, but IMHO they are pointing it in the wrong directionà Just so you know, I was one of those kids who signed up for the Training and college moneyà and you know what? My orders during Operation Desert Shield came from the topà.



    Any way before going any further I wanted you to know I was reading this thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • David Panzer
    replied
    What reason is there to protest the funeral of a soldier? What reason is there to harass a family burying their child who died serving his or her country with a sign that reads "FAG ENABLERS GO TO HELL", "GOD HATES AMERICA" and other such garbage?

    Westboro Baptist Church has a right to spout such garbage on their website, and shamefully proclaim from behind the pulpit. One would think that people would have the decency to allow a family to grieve without seeing such filth.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by WorkerCaste
    I will defend your right to say whatever you want as vigorously as I'll defend my own. Just don't try to make me listen (unless it's my job.)
    Veering dangerously close to the political thread, here but....Given that rationale, does that mean that the politcal protesters who are relegated out of sight (so I hear-I don't have any personal data) of the President and other high ranking officials shouldn't complain about being 'out of sight, out of mind'? Sure, they've got the right to protest but not the right to be heard?

    Originally posted by WillieStealAndHow
    In those instances, free speech should take a back seat to tact, respect, civility, and ethics.
    "Should" being the operative word. I don't know about you but I sure don't want the government dictating manners. Or even local.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:

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