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  • Originally posted by Jan
    Completely agreed.* Somehow I've always thought that a god who could create something as complex as a universe that follows natural laws and that's worth figuring out in the micro as well in the macro is much more worship-worthy than one who just would snap His/Her/It's fingers and blink everything into existance.

    Jan
    *and isn't that more than just a little frightening?
    Jan,

    You may be interested in looking into this book to see how both creationism and evolutionism can actually be one in the same.
    ---
    Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
    www.benedictfamily.org/podcast

    Comment


    • Thanks, I'll bookmark that for when I've recovered (financially) from the holiday.

      Jan
      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jan
        Completely agreed.* Somehow I've always thought that a god who could create something as complex as a universe that follows natural laws and that's worth figuring out in the micro as well in the macro is much more worship-worthy than one who just would snap His/Her/It's fingers and blink everything into existance.

        Jan
        *and isn't that more than just a little frightening?
        http://jmsnews.com/forums/showpost.p...&postcount=106
        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jan
          Oh, what the heck, we've survived talking politics, why not religion?!

          Pope John Paul II died a few hours ago and the news is going to be reviewing his life and papacy for the next several weeks as he's laid to rest among pomp and circumstance and another Pope is chosen to replace him.

          I tried to think of something good I could say and sincerely mean in the RIP thread and...I just couldn't. Not that I don't think that he was a good and decent man, I have no reason to believe anything but that he was-as an individual. I simply and implacably believe that the policies that his papacy perpetuated regarding love, sex and procreation were utterly and irredeemably wrong and the consequences of those dictates may have even bordered on evil given the suffering that they caused.

          I wish I thought that Pope John Paul II's successor might change things but I can't say I have any hope of that.

          Jan
          Do you know what the message was to Pope John Paul II from his God (the Great Maker) after he died, ôI donÆt believe in youàö

          IsnÆt that hilarious funny; he ceased to exist permanently after his passing; no heaven, hell or recarnation.

          His fate or UN-fate was/is of all the previous popes who were forbidding us to practice safe sex and those who were condolend to child abusing priests. In the Great Maker's eyes pedosexuals are BAD sparks in the most worst possible way and he has no intention to Remake (reacarnate) them after their passing; sorryà

          Vantu
          Last edited by Citizen Vantu; 12-30-2005, 11:00 PM. Reason: bad spelling
          The pain shivered through my flesh like tinfoil on a tooth.
          The wind was the scream of a great mad bird, as it flapped its immense wings.

          I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream
          by Harlan Ellison
          http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/clas.../ellison1.html

          Comment


          • You know; the Great Maker still mourns for the loss of Freddy Mercury; and of course he is instantly Remake (reacarnated) after his passing!!!

            Vantu
            Last edited by Citizen Vantu; 12-30-2005, 06:41 AM. Reason: forgot to sign my name
            The pain shivered through my flesh like tinfoil on a tooth.
            The wind was the scream of a great mad bird, as it flapped its immense wings.

            I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream
            by Harlan Ellison
            http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/clas.../ellison1.html

            Comment


            • Vantu, you remember what we talked about... about editing your messages instead of double posting
              Sleeping in Light-----Darnit! Shut the Window.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                Some Harry Potter fans like to think that they're somehow rebelling against the "religious right." I've done quite a bit of reading on the so-called Wiccan religion and such. To me, it looks like they took Christianity and distorted it to fit their model of what would supposedly piss Christians off. Two hundred years ago, Christians drowned and stoned them for it. Now, they just laugh at them.
                What time-frame are you talking about, ZD? You must know that pretty much all of the nature religions pre-date Christianity. So what aspects of the Wiccan beliefs do you think they distorted? And for that matter, who did it? There's not exactly an equivalent to the Vatican or Pope in the nature beliefs.

                "An it harm none, do as thou wilt." I like it.

                Jan
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                Comment


                • This isn't a knock on you, but for anyone to claim that Wicca predates Christianity is laughable.
                  Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                  Comment


                  • As much as I hate to say it ZhD is right. Wicca is about mid 20th century or so.

                    And yeah, I never understood why Harry Potter-fans should want more than just read a good book or watch a movie. It's not like there will be a 'Church of Harry'... You find it with some StarTrek-fans, with quite a lot of B5-fans etcetera: an overzealous protective mechanism when it comes to their 'hero(es)'.

                    After all, even B5 is only a tv-series.
                    <moves very fast in the direction of the door...>

                    (*Yells over his shoulder*) How about this? Why would it be more improbable than other theories and/or religions? http://www.mars-earth.com/sitchin.htm
                    "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Towelmaster
                      As much as I hate to say it ZhD is right. Wicca is about mid 20th century or so.
                      Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                      This isn't a knock on you, but for anyone to claim that Wicca predates Christianity is laughable.
                      Somebody want to clue me in? Because what I'm talking about is nothing resembling an organized religion. <looks around a bit> Oh, my...when the heck did the Gardnerian tradition take over the whole shebang? Okay, I take it back. Change everything I said to 'Paganism', not Wicca.

                      Sheesh...turn your back for a few decades and everything changes...

                      Jan
                      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                      Comment


                      • Since Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, then technically it still outdates all forms of paganism.
                        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                        Comment


                        • If you take the literal approach to the "creation of the world" as "told" in Genesis, like some religious jews and christians, then the world "began" in the 4th millenium BCE, from the "6 days of creation" to the first verifiable date from the bible.

                          There were other religions during the 4th millenium BCE, all of which would now be called "myths", "old religions", or even "pagan" if you include the definition provided by the monotheistic religions of the world (judaism, christianity, and islam).
                          RIP Coach Larry Finch
                          Thank you Memphis Grizzlies for a great season.
                          Play like your fake girlfriend died today - new Notre Dame motivational sign

                          Comment


                          • I don't understand how those buffoons believe in the 4KBC thing, as Moses WROTE The Law around 4KBC, and he wasn't exactly Adam's grandson.
                            Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                            Comment


                            • From what I've heard from christian sources, Moses existed in either the year 2488 BCE or 1272 BCE, depending on your calculations

                              According to the Orthodox Jews, Moses was merely a secretary to god telling Moses the book of Genesis, whilst some take the view that the first 5 books of the bible are the results of a variety of documents from different sources and collected into one account, say around 450 BCE.
                              RIP Coach Larry Finch
                              Thank you Memphis Grizzlies for a great season.
                              Play like your fake girlfriend died today - new Notre Dame motivational sign

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                                I don't understand how those buffoons believe in the 4KBC thing, as Moses WROTE The Law around 4KBC, and he wasn't exactly Adam's grandson.
                                Given that they also believe that it was literally Moses that wrote the Pentateuch are you really that surprised?
                                Willie is right. There is much scholarship supporting the notion that the pentateuch came from at least two sources (the duplicate accounts in Genesis are a big clue), possibly more.
                                Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                                James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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