RIP - Terri Shaivo

[OmahaStar]

Link

Terri Schiavo has passed away, 14 days after the feeding tube was removed.







Edited because I can't spell.

[Radhil]

Just hit my radar as I was coming here.

Rest in peace.

[Jan]

I'm so glad it's over at last, if only for the sake of the rest of the people at the hospice. The things going on there have been simply disgraceful.

Jan

[jal]

i know from experience; sometimes you just have to let go.

[Ranger1]

I didnt follow that story on a daily basis...but i think that was so cruel,even if she had a brain damage...keeping her from getting any food and liquids...even dogs are getting a quicker and peaceful death

Im not taking sides over the politic issue (im not an american),but just as a fellow human i feel that was brutal (does all people who dont have a chance suffer like that?).

[Radhil]

Euthanasia is illegal here for people. There was no quick or peaceful way to die for her.

15 days of hell, or however many years she could be kept alive like that followed by a probably very similar hell.

No easy answers.

[Jan]

I didnt follow that story on a daily basis...but i think that was so cruel,even if she had a brain damage...keeping her from getting any food and liquids...even dogs are getting a quicker and peaceful death

With animals, action can be taken, putting them to sleep. When it comes to humans, most feel that that would be wrong. That said, I'm fiercely in favor of *voluntary* euthenasia with a doctor's cooperation.

Im not taking sides over the politic issue (im not an american),but just as a fellow human i feel that was brutal (does all people who dont have a chance suffer like that?).

Many are certain that she didn't suffer at all. From what I read, with her type of brain damage it's possible to be in a wakeful state while still being unaware.

I'm not sure I understand "(does all people who dont have a chance suffer like that?)". Ideally, a person should make it absolutely clear what, if any measures should be taken and when by means of a Living Will. In addition to that, if a person knows that they have a life-threatening condition and they want no extraordinary means taken, they should take the additional step of having a 'Do Not Resuscitate' order displayed in case Emergency personnel are called. By law in many places, without that, EMTs must do anything possible to revive a person.

Jan

[modernmajorgeneral]

I'm not looking to spark a rancorous debate in this thread, but the decision by the state to starve Terry Schiavo seems to run contrary to our better inclinations as humans to protect the lives of one another, an inclination which is ultimately spiritual in its origin (and I do mean "spiritual" in its most literal and theological sense). While there is a labyrinth of circumstantial and legal ambiguities to contend with in this case, the simple fact that Terry's mother was legally barred from giving water to her own daughter in unconscionable to me. As a conservative, the prospect of a culture of widespread abortion and state mandated euthanasia is singularly disturbing. In the absence of clear instructions on Terry Schiavo's part, this episode has grown into a defacto debate on those issues, with neither side 100% honest about its real intentions. While the usual liberal/conservative shouting match continues, it is my hope that Terry's soul, whether it left her body 15 years ago, or this morning, has any easy passage.

[Radhil]

I'm not looking to spark a rancorous debate in this thread,

You're going to. Just fair warning.

Newton's First Law of Internet: For every opinion there is an equal an opposite opinion. If you express yours, it's bound to get someone to come express theirs.

I could unload on you now, but I honestly don't want to start it. I'm sad that Terri died, particularly that she had to die this way. And I'd like to leave it at that.

[Jan]

<snip>...it is my hope that Terry's soul, whether it left her body 15 years ago, or this morning, has any easy passage.

That I can agree with. I also urge everybody to put their wishes *in writing* and make sure that somebody is named who'll fulfill those wishes, regardless of their personal feelings.

As for debate, we've proven here that we can discuss some pretty explosive issues and still remain polite and friendly. One trick is avoiding labels. Instead of posting about left/right/conservative/liberal/this/that/the other thing, the idea is to discuss specific beliefs and points. I always learn something from these even if I don't change my mind.

Jan

[Radhil]

Many are certain that she didn't suffer at all. From what I read, with her type of brain damage it's possible to be in a wakeful state while still being unaware.

I don't really subscribe to that. May not have been anything there to react to pain. Doesn't mean there wasn't any. Tree-falls-in-forest-does-anyone-hear type question. Depends on how you define pain.

[modernmajorgeneral]

Radhill, it's not my aim to "unload on" or rankle any of my fellow B5'ers. My opinions are always aimed at the issues themselves, not people I simply wish to piss off. That said I'm happy to be in a forum environment that is not overmoderated, ultra-PC, or with no tolerance for the conservative point of view, such as Trek Today.

[AaronB]

That I can agree with. I also urge everybody to put their wishes *in writing* and make sure that somebody is named who'll fulfill those wishes, regardless of their personal feelings.

That is exactly what my mother did. She also made me the one to handle these types of decisions as opposed to her husband. Ah the joys of being the oldest...

As for debate, we've proven here that we can discuss some pretty explosive issues and still remain polite and friendly. One trick is avoiding labels. Instead of posting about left/right/conservative/liberal/this/that/the other thing, the idea is to discuss specific beliefs and points. I always learn something from these even if I don't change my mind.

Jan

I wish that some bloggers and politicians, would avoid the name calling since it does inhibit having a real discussion about the issues. It was interesting to watch people that would usually be on oppisite political ends offer the same opinion (e.g. Ralph Nader and Bill Frist) on this issue.

[Ranger1]

I'm not sure I understand "(does all people who dont have a chance suffer like that?)". Ideally, a person should make it absolutely clear what, if any measures should be taken and when by means of a Living Will.

I mean people who suffer like Shaivo,don't have a chance (at least that is what the doctors would say),no cure...do all get the same "specialty"? killing the source for food and liquid until they die?

If there is even a 0.01% chance that we even think that she (and all those who have brain damage such as Shaivo) would feel pain,why do it? thats ....just....brutal,i don't have any other word for that.

And if they disconnected her from the tubes,why make the dying process so long? why not giving a shot like dogs get (sorry but when a dog gets his shot,he just go to sleep and never wake up).

Are we more merciful towards animals then ourselves?

[Radhil]

I mean people who suffer like Shaivo,don't have a chance (at least that is what the doctors would say),no cure...do all get the same "specialty"? killing the source for food and liquid until they die?

Many are kept alive in that state. Schiavo is one of the few who - eventually - was not. Her husband made that decision.

Cases where there is life support provided and then removed usually do not last this long - the life support is usually much more committed, pacemakers and respirators and other devices, and turning it off brings death in less than a minute. Terri's case - while I'm sure it wasn't unique - is rarer, I believe, even among the rare situations where life support is removed.

As I said before, human euthanasia is illegal here. The life support quandry is the only possibility for this type of situation to come up. You can take that as barbaric or moral as you will.