Response to Spam - Thank you, Moderator

[Dr Maturin]

OLD SCHOOL??!!! That's me then. I used to watch back then, when (I feel anyway) the really great characters ruled supreme.

That's me, as well. Nothing like nostalgia, which is why I enjoyed the Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony so much.

Who can forget the likes of The Rockers

Now, no one can, since Marty was signed to a contract after his great performances last week.

Jake 'The Snake' Roberts

One of the greatest people on the mic, ever. Excellent ring psychologist, as well. Unfortunately, he is in and out of jail and abuses drugs and alcohol. See the movie Beyond the Mat by Barry Blaustein. The Snake just got back from a prolonged stay in jolly ole England, working some shows there.

Hercules Hernandez

I never cared for Herc (real name: Ray Fernandez). He was just too much of a stereotypical big guy.

Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat (who had an arm-drag take down that was pure, fluid grace)

Ricky works for WWE as a road agent. On house shows (non-televised events) he comes out and works angles with the wrestlers. Yes, The Steamer rocked all. Who can forget his feud with the aforementioned Jake when he busted out with a Kimodo Dragon?

Dusty Rhodes - The American Dream

I never liked Dusty because when I saw him, he was wearing yellow polka dots in WWF (a move made by McMahon to embarass Dusty, who was the head booker for the rival NWA before coming to WWF). Then I read how he was a terrible boss backstage so I never cared for him. He is currently on TV in a "commissioner" type role on TNA (Total Nonstop Action), a wrestling show run by Jerry Jarret out of Florida, which airs on Fox Sports Net affiliates.

The Hart Foundation

Who didn't like the Harts even when they were bad guys? Bret Hart is now a crippled, mentally-broken whiner, but it's great to watch his old stuff.

Legion of Doom (UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHWHATA RUSH!!!)

I was never big on these two guys, either. Probably for the same reason as Herc. Hawk is now dead. He died a little over a year ago due to problems that may have stemmed from overuse of steroids. Animal is the "boss" at shows in OVW (Ohio Valley Wrestling), which is one of WWE's training leagues. Their shows are taped and shown on local Kentucky and Ohio TV and can be purchased on their website. Guys like Cena, Batista, and others started out there.

Edit: I am wrong. Animal is not in the boss role. It's Johnny Ace.

The Hotrod 'Rowdy' Roddy Piper

Another excellent mic man. He will be doing a special Piper's Pit at Wrestlemania. Remember years ago when he gave Morton Downey, Jr. the fire extinguisher to the face at Wrestlemania?

Curt 'Mr. Perfect' Hennig

Excellent worker. Also dead. I loved those vignettes he did when he first came to WWF making a hole in one, shooting 100 free throws in a row, etc.

The Big Boss Man

Dead. Never cared for the guy. The character was slightly racist.

Paul 'Romeo' Roma

Paul never did much in WWF. He made more of a name for himself in WCW.

The Million Dollar Champion

Ted DiBiase. What a great character. "Kid...I will give you five hundred dollars -- and you look like you could use five hundred dollars -- if you can bounce this ball twenty times! Go! One, two...nineteen," ::kicks ball:: "OH! Almost! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Here is a factoid. The black guy named Virgil who was his bodyguard was named so because Dusty Rhodes' real name is Virgil Runnels, and since Dusty "talked black," they named the bodyguard Virgil. Yet another stab at Dusty. Funnily, years later when the black guy (Mike Jones) went to WCW, they named him Vincent (stab at McMahon) and later Shane (stab at Vince's son).

Ravishing Rick Rude

Another awesome worker. I loved this character. He is also dead. Yep, steroids.

Davey 'Boy' Smith

No quotes around Boy. That is his real name. His mother accidentally penned in "Boy" because she thought it was for the sex of the baby, not the middle name. He is dead, too. I liked him when he was in the British Bulldogs with Dynamite Kid, but I never liked him as a singles wrestler. Dynamite was much more awesome, too. He is crippled due to steroids.

You never could understand those two guys because they had British accents mingled with Canadian and they worked in America and Japan. That was cool when Ozzy showed up after their match at Wrestlemania 2.

Hulk Hogan

I NEVER liked Hogan. I always laughed at his actions. I always rooted for the villains to beat him. If you have VH1, he and his family will be in a reality series a la The Osbournes, called...The Hogans.

And the Ultimate Warrior?

Warrior is the biggest flake in the wrestling business. They never knew when he was going to show up. He is now seen as the weirdo. Heh, he once said "I could never be friends with a liberal."

It really is a terrible thing when you realise just how many of these fine stars are no longer with us. Davey 'Boy' Smith, Mr. Perfect, Dino Bravo, The Big Boss Man, Hawk (of the Legion Of Doom). All gone. Bret Hart permanently side-lined from a stroke, and it's pobably best if you just totally ignore the seemingly ultra-right wing bullshit on the Warrior's web page.

Actually, Bret is sidelined due to a concussion, not a stroke, and at the hands of one Bill Goldberg. The stroke came years later after all the stress from Owen's death, the lawsuit, his sisters' family feud, and his parents' deaths.

And boy did Dino Bravo suck big time, or what?

No. For me the, now, WWE just is not and cannot be the same anymore. Whilst it is true that the matches are just as well presented, and the fueds seem to continue as they always have, it just seems to be too much Tits-And-Ass for my taste. It appealed to me in the past because I have always had a love of comic book heroes (you can imagine how much I am enjoying the current slew of hero movies already here and coming up) and what are these massively muscled people if they are not indestructable super heroes and super villans?

And judging from the ratings drop and the failure of the "$500,000 Diva Search," T&A just doesn't sell. WWE has effectively whittled their audience down to the most hardcore of wrestling fans. These fans aren't buying the stuff that more mainstream and casual fans would. We want wrestling, not some whore who posed for Playboy coming out and trying to turn us on.

I have just never got past them selling the WWE with blatant sexuality.

It did help them for a year or two in 1998 and 1999. Hell, it may have saved them, along with the ineptitude displayed on WCW's part. WCW had Time-Warner's money to draw from and they still lost in the end. But WWE has toned down the sexual stuff big time. Pretty much anything you see now could be seen on WWF in 1990.

I am not even sure if it can go back to how it was anymore. In my opinion it is a shame really.

That isn't the answer. There is one out there, but going back to the old way isn't it. Ever since they acquired WCW in 2001, they haven't had any competition. Or a reason to do better, to try harder.

Some big news hit last week. After their contract with SpikeTV is up in the Fall, they are no longer on that network. Rumors are that they are returning to The USA Network, who is purported to have welcomed them. USA is doing quite fine in the ratings and WWE will only add to that.

The thing is, despite WWE being the top-rated show on cable every week in the off-season of football, advertising spots during wrestling are hard to sell, as the viewers are seen as toothless, inbred rednecks. Still, though, WWE will cement them as the top network in cable.

[DGTWoodward]

WOW! Thanks for all that background info ZHD...That took some typing! Appreciate you filling in a few of the blanks form me.

Whilst, in theory, I agree with you that some of the guys I have mentioned were not the best, it was the overall, over-the-top characterisations that appealed to me. Some did indeed suck, whilst others did not - I accepted the whole package as entertaining.

Yes I remember HotRod blasting Downey jr. with the extinguisher

I saw some of these guys years ago at a (then) WWF event in the UK. on the card was the UNDERTAKER (still in his early purple/black undead mode back then), Snake vs Perfect for the IC belt (which Perfect obviously retained) and what must have been one of the last HART FOUNDATION matches ever because not long after that, on the televised leg of that UK tour, Jim Neidhart states in an interview that he is "...in the singles now" and goes on to beat the WARLORD on that bill. Great night!!!

As for WWE buying WCW...this I DID NOT KNOW! So is there any federation that can opppose them now?

Thank you once again. I really enjoyed your reply as my information (as you could see) was a tad sketchy.

[Dr Maturin]

WOW! Thanks for all that background info ZHD...That took some typing! Appreciate you filling in a few of the blanks form me.

No prob. I actually filled in a few blanks for myself. I had to think about some of that stuff.

Whilst, in theory, I agree with you that some of the guys I have mentioned were not the best, it was the overall, over-the-top characterisations that appealed to me. Some did indeed suck, whilst others did not - I accepted the whole package as entertaining.

Oh, I agree. But in hindsight, I can't believe how bad some of these guys were. Dino sucked, but they made him cool by "breaking the world's bench press record." Remember? The one where Jesse Ventura was spotting him and he helped him? And then the national anthem (was that French or Canadian?) started and Dino jumps up and raises his arms. That was gold.

Yes I remember HotRod blasting Downey jr. with the extinguisher

Hopefully something similar will occur at this year's special Piper's Pit.

I saw some of these guys years ago at a (then) WWF event in the UK. on the card was the UNDERTAKER (still in his early purple/black undead mode back then), Snake vs Perfect for the IC belt (which Perfect obviously retained) and what must have been one of the last HART FOUNDATION matches ever because not long after that, on the televised leg of that UK tour, Jim Neidhart states in an interview that he is "...in the singles now" and goes on to beat the WARLORD on that bill. Great night!!!

What was so cool about Neidhart was his laugh and the way he'd pull on his goatee. "We're gonna get hungry and forget our manners! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" Yeah, Jim was implicated in a burglary along with his wife. They are accused of stealing thousands in jewelry from a former friend's house.

As for WWE buying WCW...this I DID NOT KNOW! So is there any federation that can opppose them now?

They bought it four years ago, exactly this week. It was the week before Wrestlemania X7. Without TNT and TBS air time (the two networks, now under AOL/TW control, were forced to dispose of wrestling), WCW was worth jack shit. Vince McMahon wound up paying less than ten million for it. The very last Nitro became known as the "simulcast" because Vince opened up Nitro and Raw at the same time. To casual fans, it was a shocker beyond belief. Smarks like me had heard about it, but we didn't know how they were going to handle it, so it was still a shock. After the opening promo by Vince, they did their own shows. The WCW guys showed a lot of class and came out and worked hard. Oh, save for announcer Tony Schiavone. The jackoff did all he could to bury WWF and cement his firing (as though they weren't going to fire him anyways).

Vince then came out to the ring on Raw and taunted "Billionaire Ted" Turner and said he won the war, etc. Then Shane McMahon appeared on the TitanTron and said HE bought WCW first. That ruined any chance of an interesting invasion or "super bowl" angle, but the father and son did go on to fight each other at X7.

In the Summer, WCW returned. They did a special Nitro main event on Raw that flopped. WWF fans had been conditioned to HATE WCW. You could see fans leaving the arena for the Booker T (then WCW champion) vs. Buff Bagwell match. The match was horrible. Buff got fired for sucking so bad and for causing trouble in the back.

Two weeks later, WCW guys started attacking WWF guys and then former ECW guys joined in. This looked cool, until Stephanie McMahon was revealed to be the new owner of ECW. This ruined another chance at a cool invasion. For the next five months, it was WWF vs. WCW/ECW Alliance. It sucked badly. It drove away fans in the millions. Ratings dropped. What made it worse is the fact that all the big WCW names were not available because they were under direct contract with Turner, and WWF didn't want to buy out the contracts. Foolishly, they wound up doing exactly so in the next two years anyway.

So yeah, the purchase of WCW had the potential to kick ass, but it failed misersably due to Vince's ego.

No one can oppose WWE now. Like I said, TNA is on TV, but they do not make money. Panda Energy is their benefactor. The company is hoping that TNA will become profitable. But the way they book things, it will not be for the forseeable future. If WWE doesn't get USA back, they are dead in the water, too. Without TV, you don't have air time to build up to pay-per-views or any ad revenue. They could a weekly, low-priced PPV like TNA started out doing, but the quality of WWE TV has been so low that I doubt anyone would buy the PPV's.

There is also a little New England promotion called Ring of Honor that has a rabid fan base (much like ECW did) and they are doing well in DVD and VHS sales with their fast, high-flying matches, but they are no threat to WWE. Internationally, WWE is doing well. They are in more countries than ever and they do two Euro and two Asian/Aussie tours a year now which usually sell out.

As an aside, this Ring of Honor used to be tied to RF Video, and both now do "shoot" interviews with wrestlers. You can learn some interesting things watching one of them. I am sure they have 90% of the guys you listed and sometimes the interviews are four hours long. Lots of funny stories and stuff. And they are pretty cheap.

www.rfvideo.com is the site, I think.

Thank you once again. I really enjoyed your reply as my information (as you could see) was a tad sketchy.

That's what I'm here for.

[AaronB]

Man, I have not heard the term smarks in the longest time....

Not only are the WWE fans conditioned (like Pavlov's dogs perhaps?) not to like anything from the WCW the owner is conditioned like that as well. Even when they had good gimmicks or ideas, Vinny would discard it and come up with his own idea/gimmick. The only time that I can think that he didn't do that was when Goldberg signed for the year. Then again, he didn't have much choice on that one, did he?

[Dr Maturin]

Man, I have not heard the term smarks in the longest time....

Not only are the WWE fans conditioned (like Pavlov's dogs perhaps?) not to like anything from the WCW the owner is conditioned like that as well. Even when they had good gimmicks or ideas, Vinny would discard it and come up with his own idea/gimmick. The only time that I can think that he didn't do that was when Goldberg signed for the year. Then again, he didn't have much choice on that one, did he?

It's more like the writers come up with ideas and Vince has the final say. What he chooses and doesn't choose has a lot to do with the quality of the product. For instance, someone thought it a bright idea to put Goldberg with Goldust his second week there in a comedy sketch. Goldberg should have been booked as a monster. He should have told Goldust that he would be next and then given him the spear and jackhammer in a match later in the night.

The same thing with Ric Flair. It really is a disgusting sight to see Flair -- acting or not -- kissing up up to Triple H week in and week out, telling Triple H that he's the best, etc. Flair is going from legend to joke.

Heh, smark, eh?

What about lemming?

[Towelmaster]

I saw it in Holland years and years ago : the 'rematch' between Hulk Hogan and King Kong Bundy. I knew that as good as every move etcetera was choreographed, usually even up to the 'emotions' of the wrestlers. But I could not shake the feeling that Hogan was pretty much really pissed off(perhaps because he was in fact really injured in the first match? Who is to say? Anything's possible). And having the fight in a steel cage was an act of genius. It may all be fake but I distinctly remember the blood all over Bundy's head. A bald head without too many ways of concealing chickenblood et al. Best match I've ever seen(keep in mind : WWF hasn't been on tv here for over 10 years or so).

Lord, we had WWF on dutch tv all the time back then and it was fun for a while. But there was just not enough innovation. Always the same feuds, good guys vs. bad guys, etcetera. In those days Hogan vs. Bundy even kept my mother in the room... :P

By the way : does anybody know what happened to one of my favourites : Jimmy 'The Superfly' Snooka?

Oh, and thanks for stirring up some memorier. ;-) The Hart brothers, Jimmy Superfly, I loved the acting these guys did.

[AaronB]

ZHDD can probably fill in more of the details but the last time I saw Superfly Snooka was on RAW one night when Eric Bishoff conducted a "ceremony" for him and then had a heel tag team (Rosie and Jamal - but I don't remember if they had a name for the team. iirc it was the Island Boyz when they were in the "minors") conduct a beat down on him. That was about 2 years ago.

[Towelmaster]

Stupid me, forgot about the internet...

http://www.jimmysnuka.com/

P.S. Edit : I Am Getting Old!!! Hogan vs. Bundy was in 1986!!!!!!

[Dr Maturin]

I saw it in Holland years and years ago : the 'rematch' between Hulk Hogan and King Kong Bundy. I knew that as good as every move etcetera was choreographed, usually even up to the 'emotions' of the wrestlers. But I could not shake the feeling that Hogan was pretty much really pissed off(perhaps because he was in fact really injured in the first match? Who is to say? Anything's possible). And having the fight in a steel cage was an act of genius. It may all be fake but I distinctly remember the blood all over Bundy's head. A bald head without too many ways of concealing chickenblood et al. Best match I've ever seen(keep in mind : WWF hasn't been on tv here for over 10 years or so).

Chickenblood? I don't know if you are using that as an analogy, but they don't use chicken blood. They usually have the referee or one of the wrestlings bring a "blade" to the ring. This is usually a small piece of sharp metal. Some time during the match, the ref will drop the blade and the wrestler will cut himself, usually after he has been hit with a chair or whatever and the attacker is taunting the crowd so that the attention is on him.

Another popular move is to cut a thin layer of skin, then lay the flap down, before coming out for the match. One good fist to the head will make blood. These tactics are called "blading" or "gigging." The act of bleeding is called "juicing."

The least common way to bleed is called "hardway juice." This consists of actually punching each other in the forehead until one bleeds. Usually, this is used in a "first blood" match. It's very difficult, what with the predetermined results of the matches, and sometimes the wrong guy has bled first.

Lord, we had WWF on dutch tv all the time back then and it was fun for a while. But there was just not enough innovation. Always the same feuds, good guys vs. bad guys, etcetera. In those days Hogan vs. Bundy even kept my mother in the room... :P

EVERYONE had WWF on TV all the time back then. You were looking at hours of WWF wrestling alone each week. Also, on ESPN, there was WCCW, NWA and GWF. Of course, TBS had WCW. Then there was sydicated stuff like Bill Watts' Mid-South Wrestling. And WWF rose to the top with syndication. I don't even want to guess on the amount of hours of wrestling there was in the late 80's. It was a lot.

By the way : does anybody know what happened to one of my favourites : Jimmy 'The Superfly' Snooka?

The last time I saw him was one year ago this week when he was at the Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony. He was a guest, and there were hundreds. Before that, he'd pop up in clips from WWE public relations things here and there.

Who can forget when Piper hit Snuka with a coconut?

Oh, and thanks for stirring up some memorier. ;-) The Hart brothers, Jimmy Superfly, I loved the acting these guys did.

You need to see "Hitman Hart: Wrestling With Shadows" about how Bret Hart got "screwed" by Vince McMahon when he was on his way out from WWF. It's kind of old, but very interesting.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0179218/

Also, Beyond the Mat is one to watch:

http://imdb.com/title/tt0218043/

ZHDD can probably fill in more of the details but the last time I saw Superfly Snooka was on RAW one night when Eric Bishoff conducted a "ceremony" for him and then had a heel tag team (Rosie and Jamal - but I don't remember if they had a name for the team. iirc it was the Island Boyz when they were in the "minors") conduct a beat down on him. That was about 2 years ago.

Rosie and Jamal were 3MW -- Three Minute Warning. Remember Bischoff would tell someone that they had "three minutes?" Yes, I remember this and it probably was two years ago, as Jamal was fired for being an asshole quite some time ago. He went to Japan and is now in NJPW or AJPW.

BTW, thebaron's use of the term "heel"...this means "bad guy."

P.S. Edit : I Am Getting Old!!! Hogan vs. Bundy was in 1986!!!!!!

They wrestled at Wrestlemania II in a steel cage. And probably at a hundred other non-televised events in a steel cage that year. Hogan would then go on to feud with Paul Orndorff, who is being inducted into the Hall of Fame this year. Paul held off on a neck surgery because he didn't want to lose the chance at feuding with Hogan. His arm atrophied. Bad decision.

Also interesting about Paul...Andre was really hurting in the weeks leading up to the Wrestlemania III match with Hogan. His giantism was literally starting to kill him and his back hurt. Orndorff was the backup and was going to come out to wrestle Hogan if Andre couldn't make it out there.

And late '86 was when I first started watching.

[AaronB]

Also, Beyond the Mat is one to watch:

http://imdb.com/title/tt0218043/

I really need to see that.

Rosie and Jamal were 3MW -- Three Minute Warning. Remember Bischoff would tell someone that they had "three minutes?" Yes, I remember this and it probably was two years ago, as Jamal was fired for being an asshole quite some time ago. He went to Japan and is now in NJPW or AJPW.

BTW, thebaron's use of the term "heel"...this means "bad guy."

Yeah it was 3 minute warning. I really thought they would have been better served by staying with the "Island Boyz" gimmick. Of course Jamal not beating up people in a night club would have helped too. I loved some of the double team moves that they did.

[Dr Maturin]

I really need to see that.



Yeah it was 3 minute warning. I really thought they would have been better served by staying with the "Island Boyz" gimmick. Of course Jamal not beating up people in a night club would have helped too. I loved some of the double team moves that they did.

Tag team wrestling is dead. It isn't extinct and could make a resurgence, but for all intents, constructions and purposes, it's dead.

Think of all the great teams from the past:

British Bulldogs, Hart Foundation, Killer Bees, Can-Am Connection, Strike Force, Demolition, Brainbusters, Rockers, just to name a few. Most had really cool double team moves. Now we get the Bashams and the La Resistance.

[AaronB]

Tag team wrestling is dead. It isn't extinct and could make a resurgence, but for all intents, constructions and purposes, it's dead.

Think of all the great teams from the past:

British Bulldogs, Hart Foundation, Killer Bees, Can-Am Connection, Strike Force, Demolition, Brainbusters, Rockers, just to name a few. Most had really cool double team moves. Now we get the Bashams and the La Resistance.

I do agree that tag-teams are dead right now.

If you are adding the Can-Am Connection to that list, then you must include some of the newer teams like Edge and Christian, the Hardys and my personal favorites... the Dudleys!

Personally, I think that Bubba-Ray should have had a good singles push. I thought that he did good mike work and was good in the ring as well.

BRD: Devon!!!!!!!!!
Devon: WHAT?!
BRD: Get the tables!

[Dr Maturin]

I do agree that tag-teams are dead right now.

If you are adding the Can-Am Connection to that list, then you must include some of the newer teams like Edge and Christian, the Hardys and my personal favorites... the Dudleys!

Personally, I think that Bubba-Ray should have had a good singles push. I thought that he did good mike work and was good in the ring as well.

BRD: Devon!!!!!!!!!
Devon: WHAT?!
BRD: Get the tables!

Did you see his push in 2002 when they sent D-Von to Smackdown after the "draft?"

E&C were excellent. I liked their "stacked" superplex and the con-chair-to. Their promos were also great. Who can forget when they MST3K'd the Hardy Boyz' home video tapes from their youth?

[AaronB]

Did you see his push in 2002 when they sent D-Von to Smackdown after the "draft?"

E&C were excellent. I liked their "stacked" superplex and the con-chair-to. Their promos were also great. Who can forget when they MST3K'd the Hardy Boyz' home video tapes from their youth?

Wasn't a whole hell of a push if you ask me. Hell Bradshaw is getting more of a push and he doesn't have any of the mic talent that Buba has.
When E&C turned heel they were really funny and that MST3K scene was really funny.

[Dr Maturin]

Wasn't a whole hell of a push if you ask me. Hell Bradshaw is getting more of a push and he doesn't have any of the mic talent that Buba has.
When E&C turned heel they were really funny and that MST3K scene was really funny.

I loved it right after the turn when the cameras would scan the crowd looking for them (because when they were faces they go through the crowd to the ring) and then it'd zoom in on them on the ramp. And they'd have big cheesy smiles on their faces.

And then they'd start a scene with them in the middle of a conversation like this:

Christian: And THAT is why Balki was the "Perfect Stranger!"

Edge: The other guy was a stranger, too.

Christian: Well, yeah.