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If JMS was to write a Star Wars Trilogy

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  • If JMS was to write a Star Wars Trilogy

    As we know there's been a lot of criticism out there with the writing quality of The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Many people have even gotten to the point where they are no longer looking forward to any new films. Myself included.

    It got me thinking if what would happen if JMS were somehow put in charge of writing a complete Star Wars Trilogy. We all saw how fantastic of a writer he is when he wrote almost the entire B5 series himself in order to ensure continuity in the story lines and the various arcs.

    I think if Star Wars had the same quality of writing and continuity of B5 then it would magically sore at the box office again. Star Wars needs to bring back the excitement and suspense that existed after The Empire Strikes Back. As most people know, The Empire Strikes Back had one of the biggest cliff hangers in movie history and people couldn't wait to see the next movie. This was obviously missing from The Last Jedi.

    We can only imagine what kind of Star Wars Trilogy JMS could have created if given the chance.

  • #2
    I didn't have much of a problem with The Force Awakens, to me it felt like a nice return to the SW I knew and loved. It played it far too safe perhaps, but we were all so relieved it wasn't the prequels that it worked a treat. The Last Jedi was fun, and irreverent and perhaps a tad silly. I have little interest in where the plot is going, and if anything they've taken too long to break with the past and tell new interesting stories with the new characters. Perhaps that harkening back to old characters like Luke, Leia and Han is where the mistake lies.

    Yes, I reckon JMS could probably sketch out a nice arc, but strangely I have no desire to see him play in the SW universe. I have a feeling we'll get far better SW films once they are far more free to just make good films without having to constantly evoke or refer back to the old films. Rian did a good job of signalling that attitude. If anything, the one thing Last Jedi did really well was telegraph that message loud and clear. I think if he'd perhaps not had to follow Force Awakens, it might have been a better film. It'd actually be interested to see him handle some kind of original trilogy because it would, at the very least, be interesting.
    Last edited by Ubik; 07-04-2018, 02:55 PM.
    Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

    Kosh: Good!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ubik View Post
      I have a feeling we'll get far better SW films once they are far more free to just make good films without having to constantly evoke or refer back to the old films. Rian did a good job of signalling that attitude. If anything, the one thing Last Jedi did really well was telegraph that message loud and clear. I think if he'd perhaps not had to follow Force Awakens, it might have been a better film. It'd actually be interested to see him handle some kind of original trilogy because it would, at the very least, be interesting.
      Hmmmm . . . . interesting opinion. First off I do agree that the writing has been a bit weak, but that isn't to say I didn't enjoy them - or at least parts of them. I definitely don't think trying to tie things back to the old films is the problem. I think the problem is that they don't know what they are doing with the new characters, or at least they don't want to commit to anything. As I've said in the past, my major issue so far has been Finn. I just don't feel like his back story fits and I don't see his purpose, unless he is eventually going to turn on Rey.

      And honestly I believe I said before that there needs to be more exposition for other characters. Rey's backstory needs to tell us more about how she is able to duel with a light-saber. It can't just be that she is strong with "The Force." I mean she is clearly no expert in The Force Awakens (2015), but it can't just be that she can contend with someone who has some real training and is strong with "The Force" just because she is strong with "The Force". A friend suggested that we are supposed to assume she is skilled in combat of this nature because of where she grew up. Okay, so she grew up in a rough place without parents and we saw her use a staff to defend herself. I don't see how that transitions well to a saber, but I'll grant that is a weak explanation. And how did she end up with the compassion and selflessness she has if she was raised in such a dog-eat-dog environment? It can't all just be explained as "The Force". That is lazy writing I doubt JMS would stand for. After The Force Awakens (2015) I was hoping we would get more issues like this better explained in The Last Jedi (2017). We really did not. We did get more explained about Kylo Ren's background so maybe that is a positive sign for the future, but I am not holding my breath.

      I could go on, but I think you see my point about the new cast. My main issue with the ties to the old cast is that it is far too transparent that the studio's goal is killing them off.
      Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Truth66 View Post
        As we know there's been a lot of criticism out there with the writing quality of The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Many people have even gotten to the point where they are no longer looking forward to any new films. Myself included.
        I actually liked "The Force Awakens" (TFA), although I recognized it was deja vu all over again. TFA was basically a remake of "A New Hope", but at least its heart was in the right place. TFA was a love letter to the Original Trilogy (OT).

        "The Last Jedi" (TLJ) on the other hand was a poison pen letter to the OT. TLJ disrespected the OT characters, especially Luke Skywalker. It disrespected the lore. In general, TLJ sh!t all over everything I loved about "Star Wars". Hence I nicknamed the film "The Laxative Jedi", and created my own movie poster for it.

        And I'm not alone in my opinion. I found this wonderful article, the first to honestly and accurately report on what is going on with the "Star Wars" franchise.

        I am also "no longer looking forward to any new films." In fact, I recently created a new movie poster for Episode IX.

        Originally posted by Truth66 View Post
        It got me thinking if what would happen if JMS were somehow put in charge of writing a complete Star Wars Trilogy. We all saw how fantastic of a writer he is when he wrote almost the entire B5 series himself in order to ensure continuity in the story lines and the various arcs.
        As much as I know JMS would do a fantastic job with this own trilogy, I wouldn't wish for him to work for Lucasfilm, at least not now. As Grace Randolph points out in a recent video, Lucasfilm is a house divided. Bob Iger allegedly wants to fire Kathleen Kennedy, but nobody wants her job!

        In addition, JMS would not fit in with the environment at Lucasfilm, which views their customers as the enemy and has recently tripled down on fan hatred. It's unbelievable - in fact the only analog I can come up with, albeit at a much smaller scale, is Amy's Baking Company.
        Last edited by alpha128; 07-05-2018, 01:37 PM.

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        • #5
          Like others, I don't really want this. Joe is a wonderful writer, but I don't see this as his bag. If it happened, though, I guarantee you the protagonist is named Laurel.

          As for LucasFilm, I'm saddened by all the negativity and butthurt and that it seems it will ultimately derail something I was enjoying (even if it's flawed). I liked that TFA was a nostalgia trip, where they gave us all the same beats as the OT but with a slight twist each time. And I love that TLJ deconstructed the lore of the Jedi (who kinda suck and break everything) and expanded the Force's in-story reach beyond just the Skywalker legacy. And I adore that they made Luke a real character for the first time. No longer was he a whiny farm boy or a self-important prick with no nuance. He had depth and wisdom, and I wish so many fans didn't see that growth with such disdain. It all just makes me sad.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
            And I adore that they made Luke a real character for the first time. No longer was he a whiny farm boy or a self-important prick with no nuance. He had depth and wisdom, and I wish so many fans didn't see that growth with such disdain. It all just makes me sad.
            Yes I agree with this completely. I don't really follow the controversy so can anyone tell me why I've seen things that say Mark Hamill is upset? I assume it is just because of what happened to Luke, but is there another reason I am unaware of? If it is because of what happened to Luke then I see his point, but he should know better than to make a public spectacle about it. Yes I think what they did with Luke was a huge mistake, but I also knew going into the movie that the business side of the whole affair had basically demanded it and I felt they handled it about the best they possibly could. Make no mistake, Rian Johnson was not the end all decision maker on this film. He probably didn't even have final cut, even if they claim he had final cut.
            Last edited by Looney; 07-07-2018, 09:16 AM.
            Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Looney View Post
              I don't really follow the controversy so can anyone tell me why I've seen things that say Mark Hamill is upset? I assume it is just because of what happened to Luke, but is there another reason I am unaware of? If it is because of what happened to Luke then I see his point, but he should know better than to make a public spectacle about it
              According to The Motley Fool article I linked to earlier:

              Even Mark Hamill, the actor who portrays Luke Skywalker, voiced dissatisfaction with his character's progression in The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. Shockingly, the actor did so during numerous press appearances promoting the films -- behavior that's pretty much unheard of, because media events are meant to present projects in the best possible light.

              Is Disney's "Star Wars" Universe Imploding?
              I encourage you to read the entire article because it is an accurate and comprehensive summary of the current state of the "Star Wars" franchise.

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              • #8
                The Motley Fool article shows a lack of understanding of Mark Hamill. There is nothing "shocking" about anything he says, as he's made a career of not giving a flying fuck what anyone thinks about anything. He's not a puppet of any franchise and more or less says what he thinks when he wants. It's refreshing. When Hamill said, "it's not my Luke Skywalker", I believe that was totally honest. I bet he freaked out when he saw what Rian was doing with his character, because it was foreign to him. Lucas's Skywalker was 2-D. Johnson was adding a 3rd D, and I imagine that was jarring.

                But those who hate the film refuse to accept that Hamill was also honest when he admitted that he was mistaken. They say LucasFilm forced him to say that, which is bullshit. Mark Hamill would happily give the middle finger to the entire franchise if he felt like it. It's his way. If he said he didn't like what they were doing with Luke when he joined the project, he meant it. And if he later said, "Look, after seeing the completed film, I realize I was wrong. I wanted a good film, and they made a great one." then he meant it.

                Looney, in short, Hamill's not upset. As is his way, he voiced creative differences early in the process, but later clarified that he loved what they did with Luke, appreciated being pushed out of his comfort zone, was humbled by the experience, and -- his words -- "Rian Johnson made an all-time GREAT [movie]!"

                There are dozens of reasons to dislike TLJ, and it's a valid opinion to have, but clinging to Hamill as some justification for that opinion is absolute nonsense.

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                • #9
                  Also, I reject the narrative that "Solo" is a flop because people didn't like "The Last Jedi". I liked/loved all 3 of the new films, but couldn't muster any enthusiasm for "Solo". I went to see it because my kid wanted to, and I enjoyed it just fine, but it didn't excite me. Han is the best character in the OT, and I know everything I need to know about him, so recasting him with some kid in some side story I don't care about is a "wait for cable" situation for me. I just don't care that much. And the ads looked cheesy. I'd be more interested in a Boba Fett or Lando film, because there's mystery there. I don't really know those characters. But I know Han, and I don't really need him re-imagined.

                  Anyway, if that film is a flop, I think it's more about that specific film itself than any statement about the franchise as a whole, and I think it's a cop-out for the filmmakers to blame Rian Johnson for their failures.

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                  • #10
                    Some really great and thoughtful comments above.

                    I think what needs to happen in the Star Wars franchise is a fresh new story line which has already been announced to happen. However, I believe that any new story line in a future trilogy is that the entire trilogy needs to have the same writer to ensure accuracy and consistency. This is why JMS immediately came to mind.

                    Yes it's true that because Lucasfilm has become so political, JMS would likely not be allowed the freedom he needs to ensure a proper story and would leave after the first movie. After all, this is why he walked away from Crusade and Jeremiah because he was constantly running into interference and not given the creative freedom he needed.

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                    • #11
                      I read it. It doesn't really tell me what I wanted to hear. I can't imagine Hamill is upset with how Luke is portrayed in The Last Jedi. I can imagine he is upset that they killed Luke off because it was a huge mistake. So is this a correct simplified breakdown.

                      Studio (This part I know is true.)
                      Kill the original cast off because we want to start over with all new everything.

                      Fans and/or Hamill (This is where I am a bit more unclear.)
                      Killing off Luke is a mistake. And some of us don't like how it was done.

                      I am not saying Hamill is taking a totally negative stance against the movie, just that he might be upset about that aspect of it.

                      Now that is just one part of the debate. For me the Luke portion of the plot is the only thing that makes The Last Jedi stand out. Everything else in that movie is mediocre to poor. I wish they had made the correct decision to continue the story with Luke, but that is what money people do - they think about money and how they make and keep more of it. Cutting one of the original cast out means a bigger piece for someone else down the road.

                      And what is this nonsense I continue to read about this Obi Wan movie being on a streaming site?!?!?!?!?! That is ridiculous.
                      Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Looney View Post
                        I wish they had made the correct decision to continue the story with Luke, but that is what money people do - they think about money and how they make and keep more of it. Cutting one of the original cast out means a bigger piece for someone else down the road.
                        I too would have preferred Luke to continue into Episode IX. However, it would have been possible to kill him off in Episode XIII without alienating the fans in the process.

                        Check out 10:42-12:16 in this video posted today. It speculates on what would have happened if Rian Johnson had taken a "Logan" approach to Luke. I agree that "the movie would have received standing ovations for it."

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p030eZUeByo

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Looney View Post
                          Now that is just one part of the debate. For me the Luke portion of the plot is the only thing that makes The Last Jedi stand out. Everything else in that movie is mediocre to poor. I wish they had made the correct decision to continue the story with Luke, but that is what money people do - they think about money and how they make and keep more of it. Cutting one of the original cast out means a bigger piece for someone else down the road.
                          I don't think it's about money. Killing Luke doesn't help them moneywise. The money move is to make a bunch of crappy movies with old Han running around going "pew pew" and old-man Luke fighting monsters with a light saber. They could milk that for years, but it would suck like the prequels. Killing Luke only makes sense storywise. And it makes perfect sense for Luke to follow in the footsteps of his two masters, Obi-Wan and Yoda, becoming a wise-cracking hermit who retreats from the sanctimony of the Jedi -- and specifically Obi-Wan who creates a showy inspirational death. It makes even more sense if you don't expect Carrie Fisher to pass away and planned to focus more on her. More Han and Luke is just drawn-out nostalgia. If this were a money grab, they'd have handled it differently IMO. For better or worse, that was a story choice.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
                            I too would have preferred Luke to continue into Episode IX. However, it would have been possible to kill him off in Episode XIII without alienating the fans in the process.

                            Check out 10:42-12:16 in this video posted today. It speculates on what would have happened if Rian Johnson had taken a "Logan" approach to Luke. I agree that "the movie would have received standing ovations for it."

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p030eZUeByo
                            That video makes no sense to me. He suggests the film would have been better had Luke found redemption and saved the day in an epic blaze of glory. Um ... that's exactly what he did. He saved the entire rebellion with the most epic demonstration of the Force we've ever seen. Videos like that and its Fox News style of name-calling vitriol make it clear that there's a segment of fandom that just wants to be angry, and there's nothing you can do to prevent their rage.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
                              That video makes no sense to me. He suggests the film would have been better had Luke found redemption and saved the day in an epic blaze of glory. Um ... that's exactly what he did. He saved the entire rebellion with the most epic demonstration of the Force we've ever seen.
                              That's not what he did at all. As this video notes (starting at 12:05):
                              Luke was made out to be a coward who ran away from his problems. He was a conflicted mentor who didn't know the right path himself even though he was supposed to be a f#(%ing legend. He was bested in a stick battle by a girl who just learned the force last week. And he died like a fart in the wind, which did nothing to further his plot.
                              Now THIS video ends with "saving the the entire rebellion with the most epic demonstration of the Force we've ever seen." That video is about twenty times shorter and about twenty quadrillion times better than "The Last Jedi".

                              EDIT: "Fox News style of name-calling vitriol"?!? What video did you watch? Midnight's Edge is a perfectly reasonable guy, and at no time engages in name calling in his video. When he mentions "toxic fans", he calls it a false narrative that the media is spinning, and decries the lack of nuance in their coverage.
                              Last edited by alpha128; 07-07-2018, 05:00 PM.

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