FOX, are they real???

[Andrew_Swallow]

The latest twist is the the US Army may have destroyed the explosives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3965831.stm

The Pentagon has again stepped into a row over 350 metric tons of high explosives that went missing in Iraq around the time of the US-led invasion.

The US defence department revealed that soldiers had removed munitions from the al-Qaqaa military site in April 2003.

However, it could not confirm that this was the same material that the UN's nuclear watchdog has reported missing.

[Starkiller]

Defeatist crap like that lets fact-twisters and spin-meisters win. Try and figure out what's going on for yourself. It is the only way you'll be able to see it.

youre right of course. i was merely making a point as to how scarce the truth really is, its there, but lots of people like to twist it to their own views, or deny it, or even cover it up. its up to the real patriotic people to find the real truth behind things, IMO alot of people just want news spoon-fed to them, and if a few distortions here and there are put in to suit there own views well thats ok and im not only speaking about the right wingers, left wingers do it too, you should all know that not everyone who goes left or right is bad or unpatriotic, most of us, and im leaning left, love this country and dont want it to turn into the EA under clark. its only when you go to the extreme right, or extreme left, that problems are caused, or when you accuse another person of being unpatriotic just because of their political stance. and this is why i dont watch the news very much, its hard to actually get an unbiased news report these days so i take everything i see or read on the news with a grain of salt, it sucks, id love to do something about it but for now thats the way it is, maybe im just being negative, maybe paranoid, but not defeatist, nothing can stop the power of freedom. and as for fox news, IMO it leans to the right quite a bit.

[Dr Maturin]

<<So...you want terrorist threats? As long as they help Bush and make him more powerful so we can kick someone else's ass?>>

Complete miscommunication on my part and complete misperception on yours.

This is what I said:

<<When ABC gets a tape about a threat to America, we want to know about it. Since Bush is seen as the candidate who Americans feel safer under, this threat could benefit him.>>

What I meant was that they were withholding it when we needed to know about it BECAUSE they were afraid it would benefit Bush, not because they were trying to get all of the facts.

I believe Radhil understood what I was trying to say.

[colonyearth]

Since Bush is seen as the candidate who Americans feel safer under, this threat could benefit him.

I'm still in shock trying to process what kind mind actually said this.

So...you want terrorist threats? As long as they help Bush and make him more powerful so we can kick someone else's ass?

People like you, ZHDD, actually stun me. You see that world through the eyes of narrowminded bullies.

It is a view that is foreign to me. But I suppose it explains why the world is so fucked up.

CE

[Radhil]

Well, you seem to be brainwashed by the left-wing socialist nets called NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN.

I don't know exactly what sort of TV they get in Europe, but I'm pretty sure it's not dominated by every American network.

Though, knowing the course of debates like this, you will likely just claim that since he's from Europe, he's already brainwashed somehow...

Since you've named every other major station as part of the liberal conspiracy - and since they say perspective is everything - I'm curious as to how many places strike you as VERY right-leaning. I'm kinda guessing that your view of the left-right spectrum - since you seem to be an expert - will actually tell us where you are in the spectrum.

though i suspect neither i or anyone else here will ever really know whats going on.but i do have one thing to say
"The truth points to itself" its just a matter of if we'll be able to see it...

Do me a favor. Take that thought. Find a dark alley. Beat it until it dies.

Defeatist crap like that lets fact-twisters and spin-meisters win. Try and figure out what's going on for yourself. It is the only way you'll be able to see it.

You may screw it all up. Something might come along and blow all your careful logic out of the water, and you'll have to rewrite all your assumptions again. Hard to take. But that's a crappy reason not to try.

[Starkiller]

this is why i dont watch tv, i dont know who to trust anymore. its seems like everybodies got an agenda, id like to know the real facts about everything thats going on, and not just "good facts"
though i suspect neither i or anyone else here will ever really know whats going on. but i do have one thing to say
"The truth points to itself" its just a matter of if we'll be able to see it...

[RCmodeler]

Re: FOX, are they real???

Originally posted by Towelmaster
Last night I saw a program about FOX News with plenty of fragments from FOX itself. How in the whole wide world can anybody believe - let alone be indoctrinated - by a biased right-wing republican newsnet like that???

Well, you seem to be brainwashed by the left-wing socialist nets called NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN. You're so used to it, that you're not even aware (or care) about their leftist/socialist bias. For example, instead of asking, "Should gov't control healthcare?" NBC, et al, ask "What will gov't give for healthcare?" They automatically assume that leftist socialism is the answer. VERY left-leaning.


Anyway, back to subject: I've watched Fox News & I still think it leans to the left.

Troy (Jeffersonian)

[Radhil]

I'd have to research the Al-Qaaqa deal, but you have to look at motive. What other motive is there in coming out with a front page story that is essentially a nonstory? To make Bush look bad a week before the election.

When ABC gets a tape about a threat to America, we want to know about it. Since Bush is seen as the candidate who Americans feel safer under, this threat could benefit him.

(rant ahead - more came out than I expected - take or ignore as you all will)

Al Qaqaa being a nonstory is your opinion however. It is your opinion there's tons upon tons of explosives in enemy hands in Iraq anyways, a bit more won't matter, and therefore there's no need to report it. Maybe you're right, maybe not (ignoring the arguements thus far).

It is my opinion that the ABC Tape story is a nonstory. Threats occur on a way common basis from many terrorist organizations. I no longer know how many terrorist beheading tapes have been posted, and it seems every month or two another supposed Osama tape gets filtered around. Threats are common and easily bluffed - it's actions I want to know about. Until I know the facts though, I won't know if or why this tape is important at all. I won't know any facts - until there's a story on it. The CIA has authenticated it, I've heard, though I haven't heard to whom, so I expect something. Possibly on the weekend, more likely on Monday.

If there's a bunch of BS surrounding it and the issue is actually not that important, then I can rant about it. The whole CBS mullarkey with Bush's service is a good example - damn what a turkey that was. I don't expect this tape to actually air, but I do expect some reporting on it (other than the shill Drudge making his noise), and I will look for it. And make a more final judgement after (no judgement is ever final).

And I may be reasoning with you or handing you ammo depending, but I will say this about the Al-Qaqaa story. The fact that the base was looted did not suprise me at all - the only suprise was that Iraq had lots of quality stuff to loot. There have been stories ever since the fall of Baghdad about rampant looting. The more obvious stories focused on that one museum as an example, and highlighted the city looting of offices and palaces. Yet, all along there's been under-the-radar stories about old bases being looted, even ones including possible nuclear materials. Nothing concrete though, and nothing in detail, and reports eventually filtered through that all the nuke stuff was recovered.

The Qaqaa story is important not just because of the well documented explosives that were lost (which is damning in it's own right), but because it also ties into other major problems of the war. Once you have the face of it down pat, it implies that lots of bases were not covered like this, giving weight to all the insubstantial looting reports that were happening all along. Then you get into the why not - was this bad planning, was intel misplaced or ignored, we keep hearing opposing sides about whether we sent enough troops...

It's not just the explosives. It's a logical lynchpin for the Iraq war. A proven and investigated end symptom that points backwards at problems long debated or ignored, not a root cause of anything concrete (yet) but a grounding point for discussing every other thing going wrong over there. A lot like Abu Gharib prison was, actually.

That is why it's a story. How could it not be, tying into as much as it does?

You may call it a bias move, but I don't think the facts can help which way they point. I think you can only see the way they point, and ignore that they are facts behind that.

We'll see over the next few days if the tape has any similar effect.

[I love Lyta]

Hehe, I don't bet for money. I have the tendency to lose if I do.
Tho in this case I'd be happy to lose.

[iamsheridan]

Originally posted by I love Lyta
I bet sometime during the weekend the gov will tell everyone that the tape is genuine and that there is a real threat, raise sec level to red to get Bush re-elected.

You're on!
Shall we say 5Ç?

/IamS

[I love Lyta]

I bet sometime during the weekend the gov will tell everyone that the tape is genuine and that there is a real threat, raise sec level to red to get Bush re-elected.

[Dr Maturin]

<<A week and a half is not showing any restraint. Half a week is showing too much.>>

I'd have to research the Al-Qaaqa deal, but you have to look at motive. What other motive is there in coming out with a front page story that is essentially a nonstory? To make Bush look bad a week before the election.

When ABC gets a tape about a threat to America, we want to know about it. Since Bush is seen as the candidate who Americans feel safer under, this threat could benefit him.

[Radhil]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
You have to ask questions when restraint is taken in one circumstance and in others, not. NY Times, front page story, essentially "Bush Shows Idiocy Again: Weapons Missing" before they even knew what was going on.

The Iraqi disclosure to the IAEA was on October 10th. That's two weeks before the NYT article. You can chop a few days off that while sources relayed information, but that means a week and a half at minimum went by. Sitting there.

Sounds to me like restraint was taken, and time for fact-checking was made. But let us assume it wasn't for the moment, and accept your arguement that this is not showing restraint.

ABCNews obtains the threat tape on this past Sunday, according to Drudge, officials get it Monday morning, Drudge scoops it in his usual manner on Wednesday. This means 3 to 4 days they sat on the tape. Half a week.

A week and a half is not showing any restraint. Half a week is showing too much.

Try your arguement again when you know what's going on.

(the actual headline used was Huge Cache of Explosives Vanished From Site in Iraq, I believe. My my my, look at that spin go....)

[Dr Maturin]

<<That a threat tape came along and it wasn't put on the air immediately? That a report wasn't issued, despite that it's in government hands? I actually call this a sign of restraint - that the CIA is checking the tape instead of immediately raising the fake terror alert.>>

You have to ask questions when restraint is taken in one circumstance and in others, not. NY Times, front page story, essentially "Bush Shows Idiocy Again: Weapons Missing" before they even knew what was going on.

[Towelmaster]

Originally posted by cruiser
This thread was 3 pages long when I first viewed it.

Towelmaster, all I can say is that you are peeking behind the curtain. Just a glimspe.

Ignore the man behind the curtain.

*humming "Follow the Yellow Brick Road"*

Oh I've taken my pills now... I'm so cool now you could keep a side of meat in me for a month...