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  • Looney
    replied
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    "The Force Awakens" had set up Kylo Ren to be a Vader wannabe. Of course, that was one of many things J.J. Abrams set up in TFA, that was thrown out by Rian Johnson in TLJ.
    True, but that doesn't mean Kylo Ren has an ounce of the skill Vader had. And I don't know if I see your point with Johnson throwing that out. Of course I might have missed something, but I don't think the fact that it isn't mentioned heavily in TLJ doesn't mean it is thrown out. But I fully state that I might not be remembering where this happened if there was a point where Johnson threw that out. I should probably watch TLJ again before trying to bring up any of these points. Don't get me wrong, I think TLJ was, overall, a weak effort, but I still think it had some outstanding points.

    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    Yes, we needed a Rey training montage!
    That sounds like a joke, but you couldn't be more correct. One thing Empire lacks for me is that I wish they made more reference to the passage of time. I think it would have been great if they had stated Luke was on Dagobah for a minimum of three years. Of course it wasn't nearly that, but making that a point would have really made Empire perfect for me. The same should have been done with Rey. Time is a weird thing in TLJ. We know that the B and C plots are happening over a span of a tangible hours, but clearly Rey is with Luke for much longer than that. Of course it can't be that much longer because TLJ picks up fairly quickly from where TFA left off. - they could have had a much larger gap in time a created a real period of training for Rey. I could keep rambling about this, but alpha128 is absolutely right - we should have, at a minimum, gotten a training montage.

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  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    Well I don't see Kylo Ren in the same league as Vader so I would have been super upset if that had gone down that way.
    "The Force Awakens" had set up Kylo Ren to be a Vader wannabe. Of course, that was one of many things J.J. Abrams set up in TFA, that was thrown out by Rian Johnson in TLJ.

    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    Truth be told I would be soooooo much happier if there had been a period of time where Rey was trained in dueling before she ever faced, even an injured, Kylo Ren. The fact that the Force just gives characters abilities, like surviving in a duel, is a VERY big weakness in these new movies, IMHO.
    Yes, we needed a Rey training montage!

    Leave a comment:


  • Looney
    replied
    Well I don't see Kylo Ren in the same league as Vader so I would have been super upset if that had gone down that way.

    If there is one thing I can't stand it is the concept that just being strong with the force allows individuals to be adept in light saber duels. We know that Ankin/Vader trained for most of his life. We know that Obi Wan and others trained in duels for most of their lives. Does anyone know exactly how long Kylo Ren studied? I mean we know Luke continued to learn after Obi Wan and Yoda even after they were gone. And we know that his strength with the force did help him when it came to dueling; as it clearly did for Rey as well. But the fact that Rey was able to hold her own against Kylo Ren has to be a sign that he is not as adept as the rest of his lineage. I know some of my friends say that we don't know if Rey actually didn't study dueling prior to The Force Awakens (2015), but I think the movies make it pretty obvious that she is strictly operating under, for lack of a better term, "Force Sense."

    Truth be told I would be soooooo much happier if there had been a period of time where Rey was trained in dueling before she ever faced, even an injured, Kylo Ren. Say what you will about the Prequel Trilogy one of the best things it did was show us Jedi training. The fact that the Force just gives characters abilities, like surviving in a duel, is a VERY big weakness in these new movies, IMHO.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    And as far as the lightsaber duel goes, I knew going in the probability that Luke would die in the movie was high. If they had allowed that to happen at the hands of Kylo Ren in a duel I would have seriously considered being done with the franchise. The only disappointing aspect of the projection scene for me was that he didn't actually survive the barrage a of blasts because he wasn't there. But like I said, I think they handled Luke's death in the best possible way. Scratch that - the best possible way would have been to not kill him off at all, but the business side of studio movie making wasn't going to allow that.
    I agree that they should not have killed Luke at all. But if they were, they should have echoed the light saber duel between Vader and Kenobi in "A New Hope". If I recall correctly, Luke actually starts quoting Kenobi. But then once again Rian Johnson decided to subvert expectations by doing something much worse than we expected.

    Seriously, why didn't Lucasfilm consult with the "How It Should Have Ended" team before releasing "The Last Jedi"?!? The HISHE version of TLJ is twenty times shorter and about twenty quadrillion times better.

    How Star Wars The Last Jedi Should Have Ended
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    Okay quick note, I totally agree on Superman Leia, but mostly because it just looked bad.

    And as far as the lightsaber duel goes, I knew going in the probability that Luke would die in the movie was high. If they had allowed that to happen at the hands of Kylo Ren in a duel I would have seriously considered being done with the franchise. The only disappointing aspect of the projection scene for me was that he didn't actually survive the barrage a of blasts because he wasn't there. But like I said, I think they handled Luke's death in the best possible way. Scratch that - the best possible way would have been to not kill him off at all, but the business side of studio movie making wasn't going to allow that.
    Hamill didn't seem super keen on the direction they took with Luke, as evidenced by the slightly irreverent interviews.

    Leave a comment:


  • Looney
    replied
    Okay quick note, I totally agree on Superman Leia, but mostly because it just looked bad.

    And as far as the lightsaber duel goes, I knew going in the probability that Luke would die in the movie was high. If they had allowed that to happen at the hands of Kylo Ren in a duel I would have seriously considered being done with the franchise. The only disappointing aspect of the projection scene for me was that he didn't actually survive the barrage a of blasts because he wasn't there. But like I said, I think they handled Luke's death in the best possible way. Scratch that - the best possible way would have been to not kill him off at all, but the business side of studio movie making wasn't going to allow that.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    Woh, Woh, Woh alpha128. You can't drop that bomb and show us the poster without explaining why. I mean you went to a lot of effort to make the poster so you must have strong convictions.
    I previously posted my objections to "The Last Jedi" in the Thoughts After Seeing The Last Jedi (Spoiler Free) thread. I have quoted the relevant portions below.

    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    In fact, just today I came up with the perfect nickname, which is, as far as I know, original to me. Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Laxative Jedi - because it sh!ts all over everything you loved about Star Wars!
    When sarthaz asked me to elaborate, I wrote (spoiler tags now removed):

    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    Luke Skywalker, the guy who saved his father Darth Vader, who at that point seemed to be irredeemably evil, decides to kill his own nephew, the child of his sister and his best friend, because he saw the dark side in him.

    The filmmakers bring back Yoda! Does he do anything meaningful, help in the final battle? No! Which means in the final analysis, Admiral Longneck, who was generally incompetent, and only got her position due to the fact everyone above her in the chain of command was either dead or incapacitated, got to be a bigger hero than f-ing Yoda!

    And what about that epic light saber duel between Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker ? Oh, that's right - there wasn't one! If they were going to have Luke die anyway, why not have him be there in person and have a epic duel like Vader's and Obi-Wan's in the original.

    And don't get me started on Superman Leia!

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    Woh, Woh, Woh alpha128. You can't drop that bomb and show us the poster without explaining why. I mean you went to a lot of effort to make the poster so you must have strong convictions.

    I was disappointed with The Last Jedi (2017), but it basically comes down to the fact that I really didn't like the entire Finn arc. The rest was okay. I loved the Luke arc. I felt it was handled in the best possible manner. I will say what I didn't like about the Luke arc was that it was unnecessary. I don't like the the fact they even had to do the Luke arc in that way, but that is the business side of movie making.
    The whole tonal shift was really odd, the humour too. E.g. Hux is suddenly and bumbling bufoon! I had fun, but I could really pick it apart if I wanted too. Frankly, I don't care to, and I got a chuckle out of how irreverent it was!

    Leave a comment:


  • Looney
    replied
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post

    I hated "The Last Jedi" so much
    Woh, Woh, Woh alpha128. You can't drop that bomb and show us the poster without explaining why. I mean you went to a lot of effort to make the poster so you must have strong convictions.

    I was disappointed with The Last Jedi (2017), but it basically comes down to the fact that I really didn't like the entire Finn arc. The rest was okay. I loved the Luke arc. I felt it was handled in the best possible manner. I will say what I didn't like about the Luke arc was that it was unnecessary. I don't like the the fact they even had to do the Luke arc in that way, but that is the business side of movie making.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
    I seriously doubt there's any boycotting going on...

    I thought "The Last Jedi" was one of the smartest and most nuanced films in the entire franchise, but half the fans totally hated it.
    Believe me, there was a serious boycott going on, and it was one of the reasons Solo bombed at the box office.

    I hated "The Last Jedi" so much I was inspired to create this modified movie poster:
    http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/...edi-poster.png

    Leave a comment:


  • sarthaz
    replied
    I seriously doubt there's any boycotting going on. "Solo" simply didn't look that interesting to me. I only went because my daughter wanted to go. This is the first time since the prequels that we've gone back to revisit a known character with a different actor, and those films are near-universally regarded as shit. And of all the characters in all the films, Han had the most personality, so recasting him raises so many issues that many fans might not want to deal with. I don't really equate it with the main arc.

    That said, numbers are going to go down regardless. I thought "The Last Jedi" was one of the smartest and most nuanced films in the entire franchise, but half the fans totally hated it. The point is, they can't win. Either you make new, smart films and piss people off, or you keep making the poorly written pulp from the originals and piss people off. You can't fight nostalgia. Hopefully they just make the best films they can and let them stand on their own instead of trying to appease a fickle and crybaby public.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Truth66 View Post
    I enjoyed the Solo movie. I think that it relied too much on adrenylin and special effects though and not so much on connection with the characters like Rogue One did.

    Now it is concerning that financially, Solo is being viewed as a box office flop. Lucasfilm really needs to get their act together before they completely alienate the core base of Star Wars fans. How accurate the supposed backlash against The Last Jedi was and the alleged boycott of Solo was, is anyone's guess. Yet, clearly something happened for Solo to do so poorly.
    It's definitely one I'll see on the small screen. None of my friends were that hot on it, so I'm not slapping down cash at the cinema.

    Leave a comment:


  • Truth66
    replied
    I enjoyed the Solo movie. I think that it relied too much on adrenylin and special effects though and not so much on connection with the characters like Rogue One did.

    Now it is concerning that financially, Solo is being viewed as a box office flop. Lucasfilm really needs to get their act together before they completely alienate the core base of Star Wars fans. How accurate the supposed backlash against The Last Jedi was and the alleged boycott of Solo was, is anyone's guess. Yet, clearly something happened for Solo to do so poorly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Looney
    replied
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    As you recall, I hated "The Last Jedi". So I decided to skip "Solo" unless the Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score was 90%

    I agree that the "Star Wars fatigue" argument is flawed. "Star Wars fatigue" is just more spin and damage control from Lucasfilm.
    Solo is not bad. I don't know how much you can trust Rotten Tomatoes other than the fact that you said, "All Critics Score is positive at 70%." I think part of Solo's problem is there is an organized fan movement against it that I hope goes away as word of mouth spreads. I'm not going to lie, you might not like it. Very little about it made me say "WOW!", but it has a few of those "WOW!" qualities and, for the most part, it was just a fun popcorn movie. 70% positive seems pretty accurate in my estimation, so maybe you'll end up between 50% and 70% or maybe even higher - but possibly lower. (I highly doubt you'll end up lower than 50% unless you are the most die-hard Star Wars fan ever and they did something that violated a part of a book you read once or something like that.)

    My thoughts on The Last Jedi (2017) can be summed up by breaking the movie into three parts that involve different characters.

    Part One: Luke, Rey, Kylo - Absolutely LOVED every minute.

    Part Two: Leia, Poe Dameron, Vice Admiral Holdo - Meh, it was okay.

    Part Three: Finn, Rose Tico, DJ - Thought it was awful.

    Now comparing that to Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018) in three parts.

    Part One: Lando, Chewbacca, - Absolutely LOVED every minute.

    Part Two: Han, Qi'ra, Beckett - It was okay. Nothing too outstanding, but pretty decent. A little better than what I felt about Leia, Poe, Vice Admiral Holdo.

    Part Three: Everything leading up to the introduction of Chewbacca just didn't have that much of a Star Wars feel for me. I really struggled until Chewy became a part of the story. I think it may have just needed that Chewy/Han dynamic. After that point everything got better.

    So overall I probably enjoyed Solo: A Star Wars Story a little more than The Last Jedi (2017), but if I was ranking aspects of both movies it would go:

    1. Luke, Rey, Kylo

    2. Lando, Chewbacca

    3. Leia, Poe Dameron, Vice Admiral Holdo / Han, Qi'ra, Beckett

    4. Everything in Solo prior to Chewbacca entering the story.

    5. Finn, Rose, DJ

    They have totally failed to give me any interest in what happens with Finn. Everything they have done feels completely forced. The character doesn't seem believable because he has never really seemed to fit the background story they gave him and honestly it just doesn't seem like they have really given him any real purpose yet. I was hoping more would be explained in The Last Jedi (2017) and instead he was just a plot device that did some stuff to move the plot along. And side note I feel they completely wasted Benicio Del Toro in The Last Jedi (2017) on a sadly predictable character.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    Well it only brought in $103 million over the four day holiday weekend in the States. They were projection $130-$150 million... I think it also suffered from the fact that by and large many people didn't love The Last Jedi (2017). They are trying to blame the fact that it came out so soon after Last Jedi, but that argument seems VERY flawed.
    As you recall, I hated "The Last Jedi". So I decided to skip "Solo" unless the Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score was 90% or better. As of this writing, the RT Audience Score is 61%, while the Top Critics Score is actually negative at 59% (All Critics Score is positive at 70%).

    So on Friday I bought a ticket for "Deadpool 2" instead and was not disappointed!

    I agree that the "Star Wars fatigue" argument is flawed. What about the two month gap between the two most successful films of 2018:"Black Panther" and "Infinity War"? In fact, "Black Panther" even got an "Infinity War" bump as Marvel fans turned them into a double feature. "Star Wars fatigue" is just more spin and damage control from Lucasfilm.

    Leave a comment:

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