Presidential Debate-Official and Unofficial

[Towelmaster]

Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow
"Know thy enemy and your self and you will win a hundred victories."
The Art of War by Sun Wu

First, no one should have been given special privileges that allow them to jump the queue of people leaving the USA.

Second, in the case of the bin Laden family this was almost an act of sabotage/treason. Osama bin Laden's family needed to be questioned in depth before they were allowed to leave.

The USA needed to know bin Laden's personality - what he likes, what he hates, what he is frightened of and what he wants to destroy. His family will know his personality and will probably share large amounts of it. Osama bin LadenÆs family may also know more about the war than they think they do.

Was the attack the start of a long-term campaign or a one off performed as an act of desperation? He could have easily talked to his brothers about his plans, possibly only in outline rather than detail but still useful.

One of his sisters could write to him each week at a post office box in Umnabcy village. From which we can deduce that his headquarters is in a cave near Umnabcy. A good place to start searching for him and a prime target for the air force.

Since the family were not question in detail by experienced interviewers the information was lost.

Thanks, good points...

[Towelmaster]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
Come on, I learned that from Fox. Contrary to popular belief, Fox is not biased to the right and they DO report all relevant news. Cut and dry.

- cut -

Hello? The American media is not State TV. The huge majority of AP writers are liberal and one needs to look no further than the opinion/editorial sections of the NY Times or the Boston Globe (among many others) to see stuff like you just wrote. I don't know where you get this idea that the media here is this monolithic, pro-American machine.

Erm... I got that idea from several answers from Americans on this forum somewhere just a week or so ago...

But I'm glad people watch unbiased news in America too.

[Dr Maturin]

<<Erm... I got that idea from several answers from Americans on this forum somewhere just a week or so ago...

But I'm glad people watch unbiased news in America too.>>

Yeah, man, I guarantee you that you get all sides of a story or issue one way or the other in this country. Comedy Central is doing political shows.

Associated Press is generally written from a left-slanted POV, but they are where the news comes from. FNC, CNN, CBS, the "rags," etc. get most of their stories from AP.

[bakana]

Anyone who would Dwell on Z'Ha'Dum would Vacation in Hell.

Meanwhile President Dubya "supports" our troops by Cutting the Budget for Veterans Hospitals...

WASHINGTON - Thousands of U.S. troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with physical injuries and mental health problems are encountering a benefits system that is already overburdened, and officials and veterans' groups are concerned that the challenge could grow as the nation remains at war.

The disability benefits and health care systems that provide services for about 5 million American veterans have been overloaded for decades and have a current backlog of more than 300,000 claims. And because they were mobilized to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, nearly 150,000 National Guard and reservist veterans had become eligible for health care and benefits as of Aug. 1. That number is rising.

Cuts proposed amid rising demand
At the same time, President Bush's budget for 2005 calls for cutting the Department of Veterans Affairs staff that handles benefits claims, and some veterans report long waits for benefits and confusing claims decisions.

Rest of the story...


On the Lighter Side of Terror Alerts:

Sex toy creates Oz airport pandemonium
By Lester Haines
Published Monday 4th October 2004 13:52 GMT

A discarded vibrator at Queensland's Mackay airport caused pandemonium after cleaners noticed a rubbish bin humming in a suspicious manner, the Herald Sun reports.

Cafeteria manager Lynne Bryant said: "It was rather disconcerting when the rubbish bin started humming furiously. We called security and next minute everybody was being evacuated while they checked it out."

It was only after an hour that security declared the offending item nothing more than a "adult novelty device". It is not reported whether the authorities attempted to apprehend the person responsible for wreaking havoc with passengers' schedules. Presumably, they simply had to look for a smiling and chilled-looking woman among the screaming, terrorised travellers. «

The Register

[Dr Maturin]

<<Anyone who would Dwell on Z'Ha'Dum would Vacation in Hell.>>

You know what Steve Miller said..."you got to go through hell before you get to heaven."

And you're not supposed to capitalize the H and D in Z'ha'dum.

[Radhil]

Comedy Central is doing political shows.

Comedy Central is doing comedy shows. It's not their fault politics are so hilarious.

You know what Steve Miller said..."you got to go through hell before you get to heaven."

Always thought that was too jaunty a tune for that line. *shrug*

They don't get a free ticket, though, like on the other networks.

On FNC, the liberals get no free ride, true. Their bullshit is called. The conservative bullshit, however is not.

Irony is, at least Fox has the balls to be biased - whatever "slant" you see to everyone else, I see NO bullshit called anywhere on any other channel. Not conservative, not liberal, not some-guy-with-website. Just towing the line and repeating the crap, as it were.

With such a gutless media in place, it amounts to who shouts louder, in the end. And lately, that's conservatives... I think you can agree on that, no matter what side you're taking.

[Dr Maturin]

Radhil, tonight when I get home from work, I am going to watch the repeat block of FNC's evening broadcasts and document some people calling some right-wing views. But, most of the liberal stuff is on the weekend. Brit Hume's trio of analysts usually bring up both sides of the issues, though. What I find hilarious is the "Beltway Boys." It's like watching my grandpa and someone else's grandpa talking about politics.

Another reason I like FNC is that everyone is energized on that network. Most other outlets have cadavers who are so stiff and boring that I want to fall asleep. Before I really watched the news in '97 or so, I'd always turn it on FNC for this reason. I didn't like the robots on CNN.

EDIT: On Your World with Neil Cavuto, Mickey Kantor from the Kerry camp called the Commerce Secretary on the "strong economy" and he got the last word, saying that the tax cuts are putting us in the hole and that Kerry would give tax credits where they were needed, like education funds, small businesses, etc.

On the same show, they are saying how Kerry looked great on Thursday night and made fun of Bush's height, and Cavuto said Kerry needed some credit in that he may be good for the market, as Clinton raised taxes and the market was still good.

[Radhil]

Another reason I like FNC is that everyone is energized on that network. Most other outlets have cadavers who are so stiff and boring that I want to fall asleep. Before I really watched the news in '97 or so, I'd always turn it on FNC for this reason. I didn't like the robots on CNN.

Well that'd be a fair reason. There's a few you could replace with Stephen Hawking and never notice the difference.

I'm listening, and I'm interested, though, since you brought up something specific. I'll try and do some watching of FNC on my own, as well. Maybe my experience is too distant. Take a fair bit to convince me - especially with CE stating it plainly, and he's not the only Fox employee I've heard from. But you have my attention.

[AaronB]

Originally posted by Radhil

I'm listening, and I'm interested, though, since you brought up something specific. I'll try and do some watching of FNC on my own, as well. Maybe my experience is too distant. Take a fair bit to convince me - especially with CE stating it plainly, and he's not the only Fox employee I've heard from. But you have my attention.

Not to diminish what CE said (because I have no reason to doubt him), but I bet if there were employees that disagreed with how NPR slanted is, I am sure that they would be embarassed as some Fox employees are.

[Towelmaster]

I personally wouldn't give a toss about the alleged right-wing bias of Fox as long as there are alternatives to watch.

You cannot force anyone to watch what he/she does not want to see, but as long as the alternatives are available I think that it is up to the person to decide what he/she watches.

Of course it could be that Fox is so much bigger that it drowns out the rest. But I imagine it would be hard to drown out CNN. They may have grown stale a bit but I do find them useful every now and then.

[Dr Maturin]

I am in a huge rush right now, but later on last night on Hannity and Colmes, Alan Colmes tore up Ann Coulter on some statements she made in Treason, about how we should carpet bomb the ME and convert them the Christianity. I always thought that was a joke, but she tried to defend it by saying they needed to be converted to anything but extremist Islamic factions.

There were a lot more examples last night, but I really gotta run now. I will try to log on at work.

[Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt]

I don't think the label "liberal media" applies any more. Yes, there are politically biased shows out there, but in general the media is geared more towards ENTERTAINMENT than anything else. They don't care what they report as long as it plants butts in front of a TV set or sells newspapers.

[Dr Maturin]

<<I don't think the label "liberal media" applies any more. >>

Well, media is more than just TV. There are newspapers, too. Lots of them. Magazines.

Also last night on FNC, on O'Reilly -- who I don't like much as he has a lot of unreasonable ideas and comes off as a stereotypical loudmouthed Yankee -- there was a schoolteacher in I believe northern California who simply had a picture of Bush (the pres, no the band) on a bulletin board of US history and kids were coming to school saying "He kills people, take the picture down" and stuff like that. She told them that she could not discuss politics and she never revealed her political affilitation (probably Democrat anyway) but the school demanded she take it down. She refused.

If we would have heard that story on NBC, Brokaw would have reported the minimum amount of info and wouldn't have interviewed the teacher herself, to make it look like Bush lovers were getting their way in the country. I know I can't prove he would have done that, but from his past record, it isn't unlikely.

Aside from that, partisan media is not only so because of how they report, but because of what they report.

[Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt]

Zha,

They don't care what they report as long as it plants butts in front of a TV set or sells newspapers.

I included newspapers. I didn't include magazines because they are well known for extreme political bias, on both sides of the fence. Time and Newsweek are good examples. I also didn't include them because they aren't published on a daily basis, so it's a little more difficult to compare them to a daily broadcast or daily newspaper.

BTW, the newspaper in the city I live in is BLATANTLY Republican, they regularly print full paged ads for Rep candidates and none for the opponents. But it doesn't really concern me that much. I said it before, I frequently scratch my head in amazement at both sides of the political fence. Having no political offiliation, I take ALL the news I hear with a HUGE grain of salt.

A friend said it best, "Republican or Democrat it doesn't matter. As soon as they're elected they all turn into politicians."

[CRONAN]

I hope not all politicians are bad. With luck there are a few decent politicans who can get results and never loose sight of the agenda without selling themselves out to special interests and so forth.

All this bribery crap I keep hearing about disgusts me to no end : P