Presidential Debate-Official and Unofficial

[colonyearth]

B5 camparison explored: (BTW, this became even more evident to me after watching the Sunday morning talks the other day.)

Bush = Clark
Bin Laden/Saudi Royal family = Shadows
Kerry (IMO) = Sheridan
PatAct = Nightwatch
Halliburton = IPX
Intelligence Community = PsiCorps

Bush is in league with the Saudis, that much is for certain. It's all in the oil family...they're buds.

He's been close friends with the Bin Laden family in the past...what his relationship with UBL might be today is doubtfully a great one, but he's still "friends" with the rest of the fam.

Plug these in and start analyzing the surface and deep comparisions and the revelations they bring. It's actually very creepy. One of the scariest reversals of the "art imitates life" concept that "life imitated art."

Add to this JMS' series idea with Chris Carter which would've explored what would happen to the US and the world if the US were attacked by a massive terror attack, an idea that was pitched prior to 9/11, and I have to ask in a lighthearted but serendipitous way...is JMS a teep...or a visionary?

All the great master geniuses throughout history in the arts have been in one way or another. So...I suppose it just means JMS is the genius we've always thought him to be.

CE

[Towelmaster]

I don't know what kind of education jms had but I think he would have been a very good historical analyst.

BTW, I never did get that : why was there so much criticism when/after/because the Bin Laden familiy was allowed to leave the country? Because from what I heard the family threw out Osama BL years ago...

Of course this might not be true. Always remain sceptical.

And who would you say are the Vorlons in your comparison?

[Jan]

Originally posted by Towelmaster
I don't know what kind of education jms had but I think he would have been a very good historical analyst.

JMS wrote:

I have a Bachelor's degree in Clinical Psychology with a minor in Philosophy, and a second Bachelor's in Sociology with a minor in Literature.

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

<<I take it that, even with Fox doing the newscoverage in the States, you do know that over a thousand Americans and several thousands of civilians have been killed since.>>

Come on, I learned that from Fox. Contrary to popular belief, Fox is not biased to the right and they DO report all relevant news. Cut and dry.

<<So when is America going to liberate the Palestines? Wanna run over Iran anyone? Overthrow the Saudis next perhaps?>>

I say we go after Iran next, actually. They likely have nukes already. I say we let Israel handle Syria and Palestine. The wall is a great idea. As for North Korea, I think they are just desperate for aid and are using their threats to get that aid.

<<And don't forget that a big part of the cocaine imported into the U.S.A. came from Afghanistan.>>

I think you may be talking about heroin, grown from the poppy seed, and most of that was sold in the UK, but some in the US, yes.

<<But I suspect that this is not the picture that has been painted in the American media(?)>>

Hello? The American media is not State TV. The huge majority of AP writers are liberal and one needs to look no further than the opinion/editorial sections of the NY Times or the Boston Globe (among many others) to see stuff like you just wrote. I don't know where you get this idea that the media here is this monolithic, pro-American machine.

As for the UN, I don't want to complain about the UN not doing enough. I don't want the UN to do anything. I am telling you, it is one of the most corrupt organizations ever.

And as for the surely entertainment value of this:

Bush = Clark (Had another member of the admin killed by the next entry? Declared martial law? Will eventually attempt to destroy the US in a last ditch effort to get the last word?)

Bin Laden/Saudi Royal family = Shadows (There is no proof that they have a connection to the admin like Shadows had to the Corps)

Kerry (IMO) = Sheridan (Seen as a war hero, likely non-partisan pro-US veteran? Nope. Charismatic? Nope. Willing to do some of the stuff Sheridan did? Nope.)

PatAct = Nightwatch (Suppressing thoughts and opinion? Nope. Taking over CBS news? Nope. Taking power over established military authority? Nope.)

Halliburton = IPX ( I don't think we know enough about IPX to establish a connection with the perceived view of Halliburton.)

Intelligence Community = PsiCorps (Planning their own plot to take over the US, even from Bush, who is supposedly a despot in training? I am sure the intell community is doing some heavy stuff, but nothing like the Corps did.)

[Andrew_Swallow]

Originally posted by colonyearth
Bush is in league with the Saudis, that much is for certain. It's all in the oil family...they're buds.

The winner of the 2008 election will have to sort out Iran and Saudi Arabia. Hopefully the winner of the current election will have started the process.

Time to start vetting the 2008 candidates and the stories about them that were suppressed.

What sort of leader will be needed?

Military strong man or strategic genius or diplomat or extra sneaky or able to give moral raising speeches or able to keep his head in a crisis? Or processing some other quality?

[AaronB]

Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow

What sort of leader will be needed?

Military strong man or strategic genius or diplomat or extra sneaky or able to give moral raising speeches or able to keep his head in a crisis? Or processing some other quality?

I'm going to work on the on the presumption that Bush does get re-elected. I think that the nominees will be Gulianni (r) and H.R. Clinton (d).

Of course if Kerry gets elected, I think that it will still be Gulianni at the head of the republican ticket.

[CRONAN]

Actually, I think the Bin Laden/Sad Damn thing would tie in more with the Drahk than the shadows. With them still being a nuisance even while the good guys have the upper hand. Or perhaps a lesser shadow ally.

Kerry = Sheridan? Yeah! Go team!!

Completely different personalities. But aside from that? Well lets see, both are war heroes who have been in the line of fire on numerous occasions (of course, Sheridan has probably been through 100 times the number of life threatening situations that Kerry has, but then again Sheridan lives in TV land). Both have killed in order to stay alive. Both have taken action against their own government at different points in their lives. Both have an interest in uniting foreign governments against a common enemy, as well as establishing closer ties with foreign nations. Both speak several foreign languages due to much time spent away from their homeland. And both have half the nation/world on their side, half against.

Bush = Pres Clark? Ha! Thats controversial, but in certain respects...

Both are roughly the same size. Both have one syllable names. Both are white. Both use questionable means to become president. Both remove the people around them who do not agree with their ideals. And last but not least, both lead their respective nations to distraction through warfare and propaganda, thus avoiding conflict with the real enemy.

Fortunately for all concerned, there is no shadow equivalent (that we know of).

As to the Vorlons. Perhaps if were visited by aliens someday......

[Andrew_Swallow]

Originally posted by Towelmaster
BTW, I never did get that : why was there so much criticism when/after/because the Bin Laden familiy was allowed to leave the country? Because from what I heard the family threw out Osama BL years ago...

"Know thy enemy and your self and you will win a hundred victories."
The Art of War by Sun Wu

First, no one should have been given special privileges that allow them to jump the queue of people leaving the USA.

Second, in the case of the bin Laden family this was almost an act of sabotage/treason. Osama bin Laden's family needed to be questioned in depth before they were allowed to leave.

The USA needed to know bin Laden's personality - what he likes, what he hates, what he is frightened of and what he wants to destroy. His family will know his personality and will probably share large amounts of it. Osama bin LadenÆs family may also know more about the war than they think they do.

Was the attack the start of a long-term campaign or a one off performed as an act of desperation? He could have easily talked to his brothers about his plans, possibly only in outline rather than detail but still useful.

One of his sisters could write to him each week at a post office box in Umnabcy village. From which we can deduce that his headquarters is in a cave near Umnabcy. A good place to start searching for him and a prime target for the air force.

Since the family were not question in detail by experienced interviewers the information was lost.

[colonyearth]

ZHDD, I've said it a million times over...and over. I work for FOX...we KNOW it's massively biased to the right. It's well known in the company.

There is no doubt or question as to this fact. Period. FNC is biased heavily to the right and is a targeted propoganda machine. Trust me...we who work for the Network are actually mostly all embarrassed by FNC.

I see what comes in "raw" everyday. Let me tell you who is most centrist in their reporting and equal time based on what I see that isn't edited...CNN. Even they aren't without their moments of bias one way or the other...sometimes left...sometimes right (usually in the act of overkill so they won't be labeled left). But per-capita...CNN is the most accurate and fair.

And my comparisons were meant as an overview ideal...not literal translation.

Those trees blocking your view there?

CE

[AaronB]

Interesting Election Site

I just found this site and it's pretty interesting. It tracks the polls state by state and then gives those electoral votes to either Bush or Kerry. It will be interesting to see this move from day to day.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

[Capt.Montoya]

On the Bin Ladden family leaving the USA: you have to realize that we're talking about huge families, with tens of brothers and half brothers, many of those would have been second cousins, or even if first half-cousins they might never had contact with OBL.
I agree they could (should?) have been interrogated, but I doubt it would have yielded much intelligence.
And I think it was perfectly reasonable to evacuate them, lest they became targets.


On the other issue, you all are getting it all wrong:
The real B5 parallel is with the Centauri, they bombed Narn back into the stone age, the US is trying to bomb the Middle East into democracy.

[colonyearth]

Re: Interesting Election Site

Originally posted by thebaron
I just found this site and it's pretty interesting. It tracks the polls state by state and then gives those electoral votes to either Bush or Kerry. It will be interesting to see this move from day to day.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

I've been following this site for months now. While the site owner is very insightful and has some great commentary, and while it's a good source for polling data...I wouldn't put too much into the accuracy of it all.

What I mean by that is that polling in and of itself is a crap-shoot...and he's shooting with all of the crap there is out there.

It is a great source for proving that one pollster is skewing results over another (such as the fact that he was one of the first to criticize gallup for skewing it's numbers to the right by way of percentages of R, D, and I that they called).

Yet, to prove my point, while he sharply criticized gallup for statistically slanting their polling data (something the rest of the media finally acknowledged), he still included those numbers on the site, knowing they were biased toward the GOP.

My point is...Electoral-Vote.com is a great source site and place to get a very, very loose snapshot of things, and it's also a good informational site, it is not a place to go if you think that any predictions or fully accurate electoral representations are being portrayed.

In short, don't take any such statistics to heart and believe that that's really how the election will go.

Even the Votemaster (the guy who runs the site) will tell you, the only poll that counts is the one done on Nov. 2 when you vote. Until then, remember that polls are nothing more than statistical data and can be manipulated to deliver any outcome you might desire...so don't put too much faith in them...any of them.

And never allow them to stop you from voting on election day because you think one candidate or another has "already lost." That's just stupid. You should vote for your candidate no matter what!

CE

PS: There are some wondeful links on that site...especially the ones to the voting records of every Congressman on every vote.

You really want to know Kerry's record...it's there to be seen...and it's actually a very good record, indicating a man of conscience and compassion for the people of this country while showing restraint and thoughtfulness on how to spend your money.

Don't buy the what any political ad might say...they're massively biased by nature...look it up for yourself. I have.

[AaronB]

Re: Re: Interesting Election Site

Originally posted by colonyearth

Most of CE's post snipped...

Even the Votemaster (the guy who runs the site) will tell you, the only poll that counts is the one done on Nov. 2 when you vote.

Don't buy the what any political ad might say...they're massively biased by nature...look it up for yourself. I have.

It's funny that you mention about the polls because the only poll I believe is the one at the end of the first Tuesday of November.

WRT Political Ads, I lothe them. Whenever one comes on, I chance the channel I'm watching or the station I'm listening to. Of course since I got a DVR a while ago, I have almost forgot what commercials are.

[Dr Maturin]

<<ZHDD, I've said it a million times over...and over. I work for FOX...we KNOW it's massively biased to the right. It's well known in the company.

There is no doubt or question as to this fact. Period. FNC is biased heavily to the right and is a targeted propoganda machine. Trust me...we who work for the Network are actually mostly all embarrassed by FNC.

I see what comes in "raw" everyday. Let me tell you who is most centrist in their reporting and equal time based on what I see that isn't edited...CNN. Even they aren't without their moments of bias one way or the other...sometimes left...sometimes right (usually in the act of overkill so they won't be labeled left). But per-capita...CNN is the most accurate and fair.

And my comparisons were meant as an overview ideal...not literal translation.>>

Sorry, man, I don't need you to tell me it's biased and I don't need anyone from the right telling me to watch it. I watch and I feel I get all sides of a story. I am the viewer, so I can make these decisions for myself.

They have a lot of great shows on FNC like the one with all the nerdy guys who are both liberal and conservative (Newswatch?) and At Large with Geraldo Rivera, a guy who doesn't pull any punches. Of course some of the anchors and reporters may be right-wing, but how many other news companies have right-wingers? Many have a token one, like some say Colmes is the FNC token liberal, but I hear a lot of liberals ideas on FNC. They don't get a free ticket, though, like on the other networks.

On the subject of a Congressional hearing on media, let's consider this, and I am neither for or against it at this point...we regulate agriculture, drugs, the environment, things that affect our health. Is it worth thinking about regulating something that affects the way we think, the way we come to perceive big media, something that feeds our minds? An interesting thought...

[Dr Maturin]

<<That's just stupid. You should vote for your candidate no matter what!>>

And plus, there is more on a ballot than the presidency. Sometimes people forget that.