Redirected; Voyager

[Harrdy]

jal: i would classify it as very bland sc-fi, it never stirrs the emotions, never gets the pulse going, it just spouts technobabble and not much else.

Come on, have you ever seen more than one episode (or better more than season 1 or 2)???

For example, when Jake (Siskos son) is in a warzone and finds his own weaknesses (which everybody has), that was one of the best Star Trek episodes, EVER (for me). ("... nor the battle to the strong" #102 Season 5)

Also *very* good from the character perspective was "In the Pale Moonlight" (#143 Season 6). What is "right" and what is "wrong", and why is sometimes something that is "wrong" needed to do. Very deep questions, and everybody can think by himself about answers...

Also the Sektion 31 storyline(s) was (where) interresting (e.g. "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" #166 Season 6), especially because it didn't give "that is right, that is wrong"-answers, just "that is my opinion, that is your opinion". Clearly the good doctor knew what was right and wrong in the beginning, but he begins to doubt the "clear cut" way at the end...

I liked "Trials and Tribble-ations" (#104 Season 5) also, because it showed how much the writers and actors liked the original series, granted, it was not much of a story, but heck of a flashback 8o)

Or "Dr. Bashir, I Presume" (#114 Season 5), "Statistical Probabilities" (#133 Season 6) and the following stories regarding the "secret" (and the groovie weirdos *g*). IMHO it is how we look onto geneticaly modified persons to show who we are. And I found the position of the Federation in that matter very realistic... I also found myself very found of the "weirdos", because they are brilliant, but they are missing "social intelligence", and where that leads to you can see in #133... very nice done (IMHO)

"Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night" (#141 Season 6) was also interresting, because we tend to make dead persons bigger than they where, sometimes to our and others hurting. But I was not very "near" to Kira whatsoever (her character was not very approachable (sp?) for me), I just liked the background of the story...

As you can see, I recomend episodes from season 5 and 6. If you want to give DS9 a "fair trial" you should either begin watching with season 4 or 5, or if beginning with season 1 you should hold out for that long. It really get's better, beginning with season 4.

jal: just that the trek franchise is overrated.

Here I agree, but still, some episodes are worth watching... maybe one should do a "condensed" version of Deep Space 9? 8o)

Capt.Montoya: The technobabble Deus ex Machina solutions to problems became formulaic.

That's true for TNG and the episodes of Enterprise I have seen. But part of why I liked DS9 was that they didn't press the Reset after every story. That there where storylines going through the seasons, albeit less than with Babylon 5, but still...

Capt.Montoya: ...but I deplore the existence of the Trekkie fanaticism and their unquestioning loyalty to Trek.

"Trekkies" are a diversive (sp?) group. There are even some that don't like to be branded as such, because they think of Trekkies as loonies *g*. I think the two biggest movements in the Trekkie group are the escapists (sp?), which want to live in an utopia, without war and crime, where the "good people" win and the bad ones loose, and the second are the "Groopies", who want to be part of something bigger. I mean, you can dress like Halloween at every convention, and there are a lot of crazier people there, regardless what you do... It is like with religion (the group experience, not the personal experience), you are part of a movement, and the group is stronger, gives you more meaning...

jal: as someone who spent most of the time reading sc-fi (from Azimov to Zelany), what was on tv was just a pale immitation of the written word.

I agree, SciFi was one of the reasons why I spend so much time with "the books" *g*

PeAcE

[Laiden]

I just call myself a Ranger but I must admit its taken me MONTHS and I do mean MONTHS to fully apreciate the little show that could have but didnt . . . Firefly

[Jan]

<Jan goes back to find out what she said> Ouch. Well, at least I was mostly joking. Still, I do find rivalries sad. I've seen the Browncoats (Firefly fans) getting bashed over their upstart little program, too, by people who don't like it or don't understand their fervor. Still, it would be nice for the sake of discussion if people would say *why* they liked or didn't like a show better than others.

Must remember to tell JMS that the next cool universe he invents really needs to have a cool fan 'identifier'. Trekkers, Browncoats...I'm sorry, I refuse to be a B-ver...

Jan

[Laiden]

Let me give my opinion:

I Watch Star Trek, ALL of Star Trek
I Watch Babylon 5
I Watch Battlestar Galactica
I Watch Farscape
I Watch Firefly
I Watch Andromeda
I Watch Stargate, ALL of Stargate
I Watch Space: Above and Beyond
I Watch Alien Nation
I Watch Star Wars
I Watch X-Files

So in Summary
I Watch Sci-Fi . . . do I care if you hate one over the other? No. Do I care if one is better than the other? NO. does it matter if you like some but not all or like one but doesnt compare to most? ABSOLUTELY NOT! So why know the reason, when in truth, it wont make a difference? I think Jan summed this Thread up best as she was the first to reply. Thank you.

"Have a nice day" ~ Susan Ivanova

[Lope de Aguirre]

I grew up with Trek.

I'm 23 now and I got hooked by "The Next Generation". This nearly perfect universe with the grown up humanity and the father of all - Jean Luc Picard.

And I LOVE Q!!! I think "All Good Things..." and "Tapestry" are two of the best TNG episodes!

Later I watched all the movies and got into "Deep Space Nine". DS9 was much more darker and dramatik. There was a huge story arc and the characters changed over thze years and had more inner struggle and flaws.
Sadly the only real epic Trek show.

I never got into "Voyager". The concept was outdated and it was a bad rehash of TNG.

"Enterprise" had its flaws but in the end I like all of the Seasons.


I couldn't imagine not to watch Trek. I got into other Sci-Fi shows cause there wasn't any good Trek show for a long time and the first show I really followed besides Trek was "Babylon 5" and after the second run I loved that show even more than DS9.
But Trek has still groundbreaking Episodes and characters. Granted Trek was mostly to political correct, to slow and never really used it's potential of connecting things in these huge, fantastic universe.

BUT I love Spock, Picard, Garak, Q, Weyoun, Ben Sisko, Trip, Quark, Martok...
Or Episodes like:
TOS "Mirror, Mirror"
TNG "Tapestry"
TNG "All Good Things..."
TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise"
TNG "Parallels"
TNG "Data's Day"
TNG "Darmok"
TNG "The First Duty"
TNG "Chain of Command"
TNG "Lower Decks"
TNG "Journey's End"
DS9 "The Die is Cast"
DS9 "In the Pale Moonlight"
DS9 "Emissary"
DS9 "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"
DS9 "The Maquis"
DS9 "Doktor Bashir, I Pressume"
DS9 "By Inferno's Light"
DS9 "In the Cards"
DS9 "Far Beyond the Stars"
DS9 "Return of Grace"
ENT "Unexpected"
ENT "Cogenitor"
ENT "Breaking the Ice"
ENT "The Andorian Incident"

Trek-movie-ranking:
01. "The Undiscovered Country"
02. "First Contact"
03. "Generations"
04. "Insurrection"
05. "The Motion Picture"
06. "The Wrath of Khan"
07. "The Search for Spock"
08. "The Final Frontier"
09. "The Voyage Home"
10. "Nemesis"

SF-series-ranking:
1. Babylon 5
2. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
3. Battlestar Galactica: TNS
4. Star Trek: The Next Generation
5. Firefly
6. Star Trek: Enterprise
7. Farscape

[mdm1789]

Trek/b5

I am still a fan of all the trek series. I am compelled to watch anything by rodenberry the same way I watch shows by jms.

DS9 to me was more like a sci fi soap and that was because of the whining bajorans and the one thing in it that was really off the wall was worf falling in love and getting married OMG ,I thought a klingon getting married? Now I have seen everthing.

TNG got really good to me when the borg came into the series. The federation got their butts kicked by the borg ,but janeway in voyager always got the upper hand on the borg.

Voyagers gerri ryan (seven of nine) caught my eye real quick ASSIMILATE me baby !!

But I will miss rodenberry, now jms is here to stay and continue his masterful works that I truely enjoy.


mdm1789

[Dr Maturin]

<<My favorite character was the tailor, Garrack.>>

Garak, and he was mine and most everyone else's as well.

[NotKosh]

Sometime, I would like to borrow the latter seasons of DS-9 and watch them.
I am curious to see how they wrapped everything up.

My favorite character was the tailor, Garrack.

[Anders]

I've always liked Star Trek, and I don't care about any Trek vs B5 rivalry, although I am clearly a much bigger B5 fan.

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
As for "stagnant," that perfectly describes TNG. NO ONE DEVELOPED on that show. They tease development for two or three episodes, then go back to normal. If you think DS9 was stagnant, then you simply weren't watching.

That's completely true! I used to love TNG, and will still watch it with pleasure, but DS9 had much more development. Just like you said, TNG teases you with change, then suddenly everything is almost like it was in the first episode of the first season. Of course some things changed during the seasons, but not enough for it to be realistic.

DS9 was easily the best Star Trek series if you got properly into it. After seeing several episodes you got drawn into the plot and the characters, and some of the episodes were of a really high quality. The shows episodes were usually much more original than the majority of the episodes of the other Trek series.

[KoshN]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
[B]<<I'm not against DS9 because of loyalty to B5, but rather because I found DS9 to be boring, and a lot of the characters annoying. I couldn't stand the Bajorans, or the whining kids! ARGH! I watched DS9 for five years before drifting away from it. At the time, it seemed to me that an interesting show could not be made about a space station. It seemed too "stagnant.">>

<<Why did you find DS9 boring?>>
The early episodes where all they had were runabouts. Frankly, it's hard for me to talk about DS9 now, because I haven't seen even one episode of it since the Spring of 1997.




<<Which and what about the characters were annoying?>>
The pain-in-the-a** Bajorans. The scheming Louise Fletcher character and other Bajorans. Jake. Nog. Keiko.


<<What whining kids?>>
Jake. Nog. Them always getting into trouble. Can't remember anybody else at the moment.


<<As for "stagnant," that perfectly describes TNG. NO ONE DEVELOPED on that show.>>

Well, I watched that way back when I expected less from a show. Now, after having seen B5, TNG certainly does not look as good to me.



<<They tease development for two or three episodes, then go back to normal. If you think DS9 was stagnant, then you simply weren't watching.>>

I meant stagnant in that they had the action coming to them almost all the time, unlike in B5 where they often ventured out from the station (I mean JMS ventured out, not necessarily just the station's characters ventured out.).

[Dr Maturin]

<<I'm not against DS9 because of loyalty to B5, but rather because I found DS9 to be boring, and a lot of the characters annoying. I couldn't stand the Bajorans, or the whining kids! ARGH! I watched DS9 for five years before drifting away from it. At the time, it seemed to me that an interesting show could not be made about a space station. It seemed too "stagnant.">>

Why did you find DS9 boring? Which and what about the characters were annoying? What whining kids?

As for "stagnant," that perfectly describes TNG. NO ONE DEVELOPED on that show. They tease development for two or three episodes, then go back to normal. If you think DS9 was stagnant, then you simply weren't watching.

[KoshN]

Redirected; Voyager

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
Is everyone so against DS9 because of said loyalty? I mean, at the LEAST, the show is not that bad. To me, it is totally awesome. But I don't see how anyone can say it is flat out bad. Is it bad, or does it just not meet some people's tastes?

I'm not against DS9 because of loyalty to B5, but rather because I found DS9 to be boring, and a lot of the characters annoying. I couldn't stand the Bajorans, or the whining kids! ARGH! I watched DS9 for five years before drifting away from it. At the time, it seemed to me that an interesting show could not be made about a space station. It seemed too "stagnant." So, I went over to Voyager (a road show, like TOS and TNG), and it was even worse, but in a different way (though still with the annoying characters). If I was married to Janeway, and had to listen to her talk, I'd have phasered myself (set to disintegrate).

Then, I saw B5, and it was such a refreshing change, and relief from the Trek-writing and characters of DS9 and Voyager. I still like TOS, and mostly can stand to watch TNG, but B5 is in a whole different (MUCH, MUCH HIGHER) league.

[bakana]

If you didn't have any other SF to watch, you would value it more.

Nope. I'd just have more time to Read.

In fact, these days, that's what I DO have...

[jal]

If you didn't have any other SF to watch, you would value it more.

lets see... what competition did they have when i started watching it? ... Buck Rogers, BSG, Space 1999 & Dr Who.

i think that was about all i could see at the time (mostly on BBC2 if i remember rightly).

they didn`t have much competition back then, and i still wasn`t too fussed on trek.

as someone who spent most of the time reading sc-fi (from Azimov to Zelany), what was on tv was just a pale immitation of the written word.

one of the first things that struck me about B5 was that it felt very much like a book, so that was me hooked from the start.

[NotKosh]

Noone is saying it is great stuff.

If you didn't have any other SF to watch, you would value it more.