Why Babylon 5 Has Spoiled Me ...

[Shadow-Sentient]

Is it just me ... or do the rest of you have serious issues with other Science Fiction shows?

I have a hard time watching just about ... anything lately.

Babylon 5 spoiled me for the series that hits the reset button at the beginning of the next episode. It spoiled me for the multi-level plot lines it had. It spoiled me for in-depth and dynamic characters. It spoiled me for characters who make decisions that lead to bad consequences ... though there are a few shows attempting this (the Enterpise Cogenitor episode for one), but all in all ... nothing really compares and nothing has come out since then to make me feel that I have to be home to avoid missing an episode.

How about the rest of you? Am I missing something? Is there a series that I don't know about that offers all of this?

I'll tell you, I'm excited for TMOS to come 'round, mainly because nothing else has really 'done it for me'. Damn, I'm so excited I think I sharted!!!

[vacantlook]

Yes, I have felt significantly dissatisfied by much of tv science fiction since having encountered and developed my love for Babylon 5. I like complex, long lasting plots. Just don't get them that much. It's something that I felt I got from Buffy and Angel and Farscape and the first two seasons of Alias, and probably would have gotten from Firefly had it been allowed to exist beyond infancy. I don't think any other fiction shows have come close to capturing me like B5 did.

[Satai Delenn]

B5 has spolied me too I always look for the same quality and writing that Babylon 5 gave to it's viewers and I have yet to find one that even comes close .B5 is the best .

[Capt.Montoya]

Written SF spoiled me, B5 spoiled me further

I read way too much Science Fiction in my youth (and I still read way too much SF now).
With the complex characters and realistic science-fictional devices and technology, and variety of innovative concepts in written SF, I found most series and movies severely lacking.
I even lost some respect for the original Star Wars and Star Trek from the comparison.

I also spoiled myself on episodic TV, series like The Incredible Hulk, Knight Rider, Battlestar Galactica, and many police dramas (even silly stuff like The Dukes of Hazzard). I say I spoiled myself on those because I watched so much TV that it came a time when I could see through the plot and predict two or three most likely outcomes for what would happen after the break. TV was too conventional that it became predictable.

I gave a try to series like Starman, but I was tired of quest series that went nowhere (and Starman wasn't a good series anyway, even if based on a good movie).

I never got into ST:TNG because it was too simplistic as SF for me, had I've been younger and less cynical maybe I'd have enjoyed it as much as the original Star Trek. But still, many of the stories seemed like they could have been from a regular (non-SF) TV series, if you only set them on Earth and removed the technobabble.

The only bright spots in SF drama I found in the meantime were the miniseries V, V: The Final Battle, the series was disappointing in comparison.


But B5 was another thing entirely, it was quality drama, it didn't follow conventions so it wasn't predictable, and it had ongoing plots, where past actions would have future consequences and the characters would evolve.
It delivered in the promise of "a novel for television" making it a good drama, and it was also excellent science fiction.

I was hooked.

Nothing has been like it, I'm spoiled too.

Farscape is second best, it's good drama, well scripted and prone to twists (even if some felt like twists for twists sake, leading to some farfetched situations), it has arcs for the overall story and the characters (however they don't seem to have been planned so detailedly nor in advance as B5 was), but when it comes to the science aspects of the SF in Farscape sometimes they don't even try to check on plausibility.

The other thing on which B5 spoiled me is that I no longer want to get into a series unless I know it's going somewhere, that it will have an ending.

[bakana]

I though Dark Angel deserved a chance to grow. Some of the episodes were a bit weak, but they seemed to be starting to understand that Character Development is what drives a good story.

Then, like so many others, they were Gone.

Never got to see Firefly when it was on, but I heard so many good things about it (From people I trust) that I bought the DVDs when they came out.

I've always been a "Tough Grader" when it comes to TV SF.

I saw the Original - Rod Serling Twilight Zone and I've tended to judge everything else by that standard.
Admittedly it's a Tough standard.
So what, Serling proved it Can be Done.

But, until JMS and B-5, nobody seemed to be willing to take a chance on Quality.

[Capt.Montoya]

The 1980s Twilight Zone (I've only seen some of the original ones on reruns on SciFi) was not that bad. But just as the original it had scripts by real writers (not Hollywood script spouters), and featured adaptations of actual published SF stories.
The present day Outer Limits very rarely is as good.

[colonyearth]

Originally posted by Capt.Montoya
The 1980s Twilight Zone (I've only seen some of the original ones on reruns on SciFi) was not that bad. But just as the original it had scripts by real writers (not Hollywood script spouters), and featured adaptations of actual published SF stories.
The present day Outer Limits very rarely is as good.

Ironically, JMS wrote for that Twilight Zone.

As for the latest incarnation of OL, well, not that good really from the few I've forced myself to sit through out of the occasional bout of boredom. However, one of the men behind that OL is one of the driving forces behind SG...and that one is quite good and very enjoyable.

For some (just like JMS) one show may not be "your time to shine." But the next one is that perfect match.

Yes, B5 has royally spoiled me. However, I love FARSCAPE and thoroughly enjoy first SG-1 and now both SG-1 and SGA.

ST has been poor for years and suffers from serious lack of vision and passion and direction. Most other SF for TV is lackluster at best. FIREFLY had great potential and I'm looking forward to the new film. X-FILES was great but suffered from a lack of clear direction for its arc. SPACE: ABOVE AND BEYOND was one of the most unrespected pieces of great TV SF in years. DARK ANGEL was good, but began to suffer in its second season from "freak of the week" syndrome, which is what I believe helped to kill it.

Most great SF TV lately has come from SCI-FI's revival of the mini-series, with such series as TAKEN and the two DUNE mini-series. The BG mini-series was really just a series launch all along, and has a great deal of potential, but also has some elements I'm concerned with and hope they either alter over the show's run or at the least don't overuse (human looking Cylons for one). Word has it that BG is strongly arced for at least 3 years and well planned, and will only run shorter seasons (think HBO style), thus giving them more money per episode and more time to make them.

Other than that, nothing could ruin or cause any form of dislike for my favorite time traveler, the one and only, Dr. Who. Who (no pun intended) will return next year after a 15 year hiatus! I am most excited!

Oh well, that's my take for now.

CE

[Dr Maturin]

I really enjoyed SG-1's first season, if for no other reason than the characters and the uneasiness from the Goa'uld threat. Season 2 kept me, but I got lost in Season 3. I just don't like the show that much.

I hate Farscape. I keep expecting Kermit to pop up with the "guest star" (a la Muppet Show). "Mark Hammil, what are YOU doing here??" I have seen a good fifteen eps of Farscape and it just doesn't do it for me.

Haven't seen enough of Atlantis to judge it. Has anyone?

Stopped with ENT in season 1.

Yeah...86.47% of the time if I am watching TV, it's something B5.

[Shadow-Sentient]

I have to say that I was enjoying Enterprise while I was watching television. The whole Zindi thing was a little undercooked ... and began to look like the Star Wars films (the new ones) with the council of evil aliens.

I enjoyed the attempt at making the characters a little more rounded and human than other ST series. The T&A action, though admittedly hot, was rather trite and misplaced. What was with the massage oil detox? How about the meditation sessions? ... just excuses to get Jolene Blalock in a tight little number ... tightened my pants as well ... but the point is, it didn't help the storylines.

The most B5-like episode in Enterprise, I already mentioned, which was the cogenitor episode. Where Tripp pulls a Franklin and does what he thinks is best based on his belief system instead of weighing the possible consequences of his actions.

Battlestar Gallactica was good from what I remember. I felt that it dragged a bit and some more character development would have helped. Effects were really good and the music was great.

As far as Trek goes, I'm not sure if it is saveable. It's kinda sad because I actually like all of the characters and actors in Enterprise, which is something I can't say for DS9 or Voyager. Voyager made me want to stop watching Sci-Fi almost altogether. If it wasn't for my B5 DVD's, my Sci-Fi viewing would have gone the way of the Dodo.

[circularREASON]

There are some good Science-fiction progs out there ( and please do not include BUFFY or ANGEL - sci-fi my arse !!)

Nothing comes close to B5.

A station which creates gravity by ROTATION. This is a really workable design. Starfuries which burn fuel and have multiple-directional engines ( a design so perfect that even Nasa took notice ). Massive areas inside B5 devoted to Plant growth ( well they do need oxygen - again scientifically sound ).

I have to say ST VOYAGER was complete rubbish. Captain Midget and the Misfits more like. And just where is the Science in it? Trek should not be catagorised as science fiction but as just TREK. Funnily enough I thought the ST universe should have died after TNG but I suppose they wanted to milk the pockets of every last ST fan again and again and again.

and Enterprise - oh please someone pass me that PPG.


Can't wait for TMoS!!

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by circularREASON
I have to say ST VOYAGER was complete rubbish. Captain Midget and the Misfits more like. And just where is the Science in it? Trek should not be catagorised as science fiction but as just TREK.

Mmhhh, I'm a dyed in the wool hard SF snob, but even so I think Star Trek is science fiction... now whether it is good science fiction is another question... (And I also question whether Star Wars is good science fiction.)
I'll grant you that Trek has become its own brand of sci-fi entertainment, and not for the best. The treknobabble has been a big turn off for me, so much that it drove me away from ST.

[Dr Maturin]

<<And I also question whether Star Wars is good science fiction>>

I think you'll find that a lot of Trek fans dislike SW and vice versa. SW is simply classic myth set in space.

[iamsheridan]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
[BSW is simply classic myth set in space. [/B]

That makes it science fiction for me!

/IamS

[Towelmaster]

Has B5 spoiled me? Youbetcha...

First series I watched with my mouth open was ST:TOS, it was around 1972 after all(I was 11 years old then...).

After that: Columbo. I just loved a complete and well written script/story aired as a program of variable length. Finally! The lenght of the show depended on the script and not vice versa!

Ten years of nothing and what comes up? Hill Street Blues, my favourite series ever except(I think) Babylon-5.

Funny to read on usenet etcetera, that jms was/is a great admirer of the people behind Hill Street Blues. And having written for Murder, She Wrote I can't imagine that jms would not like Columbo. His thoughts on ST are well known of course.

But after seeing B5, with basically a combination of all the ingredients that made up my favourite TV-series(SF, good scripts, long story-arcs respectively), I have no idea what someone will have to do next to get my undying admiration,.

So spoiled? Yes, most definitely.

[searching girl]

Hi,
I┤m a newbie here and english was my worst subject in school, so I hope You can understand, what I try to tell.

I┤ve the same ┤problem┤. I started as a person, who don┤t know something about sf, ┤cause the persons around me don┤t understand (so called cultural persons - in reality Snobs) sf and so i┤ve heard many worse things about sf. Then I see some sf-movies and I started to look sf-series in tv, trying to find out, what sf is. I┤ve seen SW / ST / ST TNG... also the old version of Galactika... SG / Buffy.... All nice, for a person without sf-background it┤s intering. But I┤ve always the feeling, that that all is a `little bit┤ to simple. Since I was 12 or 13 I┤ve read many ┤cultural┤-books, maybe here is the reason. My 8 year old son loves ST TNG... but for his age it┤s o.K..
Then I see this summer holiday the Babylon 5 DVD Boxes and buyed them all without have seen more than 5 or 6 parts of the 4th or 5th season some years ago. I┤ve read about the quality and about the development..., I don┤t know why I buyed all (Season 1 - 4), but Im happy, that I┤ve done it. I get also the 5th season on vhs in a realy bad quality, waiting for the date I can buy it as DVD.
So let me tell what happens to me: I started with the Pilot S.E. and can┤t stop looking, till I┤ve seen all 110 parts. O.K., I┤ve slept... but I really started in the morning till I was to tired and I┤ve got to bed. When I┤ve finished the season 5,... I started again, but this time in english (without season 5, ..) and when I was ready with the second time, I┤m started the third time.
I┤m 42 years old, not the type of beeing a ┤fan┤, normaly don┤t crying while I┤m looking tv ( what happens to me in part 109 /110 and when Dr.Franklin arrives Baylon 5, finding the crying Susan) . Then I ordered all books, I can find in amazon / e-bay... they will arrive in ~ 2 weeks.
And now? When I try to look tv, all what I found it┤s boring me. Now I┤m waiting for the movies, 2 of the 5 I have, 3 we in Germany can get in the end of september. But I┤ve loose the complete interest in tv, can┤t find anything, what will touch my heart or mind. I┤ve started the google, find some sites about Babylon 5 and started again (I┤ve made a long break with reading about this, caused in daily round...) to read about other cultures and/or religions. And I recognised, that I was dulled by my very special last 8 years. The serie gave me a very hard kick in my ass, to go back to live. Never thought, that a film / serie could do that. Now I┤m searching for input, that will touch my soul.
Bye