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Michael Moore F911 lies and half truths

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  • #31
    Giving both sides of the story is not propaganda. Liberals are so used to big network anti-conservative news that they see Fox as full blown conservative. Most people have never seen legit conservatives who can argue points.

    Polls...I never listen to polls, anyone's polls. And from what I've seen on FNC this weekend, Kerry is beating Bush in the polls, so unless it's some kind of reverse psychology, I don't see how it's an attempt to make the right seem more popular.

    And hey, I bet 90% of FNC's reporters and hosts are conservative, and this is where the balance comes in. EVERY OTHER major media outlet has 99% liberal reporters. I listen to the ABC at the top of the hour, every hour on the radio and there is no mistaking Anne Compton's slanting the news to the left, sometimes just by the tone of her voice. And don't get me started on NPR.

    It's just what you want to watch. You like to watch CNN, hey, more power to you. I like FNC, and more power to me.

    The little bit on The Simpsons last year was funny, though.

    Ticker: Only geeks watch CNN...90% of Democrats are gay...
    Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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    • #32
      If you choose to watch FNC that's fine. But I work for the company so don't tell me it's fair and balanced. We as employees know they slant events. We know they're reporting propoganda style news. Other news organizations know it (and usually laugh at them).

      FNC is in no way a respected news organization. CNN is.

      I'm not saying this because I'm Dem. or Rep. or left or right. I'm simply telling you a fact. Fox News Channel is info-tainment with a very strong conservative bias.

      What they've done to some reporters is IMO very McCarthy-istic and wrong. What I say here has nothing to do with Moore's film or its view of FNC, or anything to do with the new documentary, OUTFOXED, that outright shows the bias on FNC...what I say here is from someone who works in news and works for News Corp. Believe me...it's biased and slanted.

      I see the raw material coming in. The only cable news channel I've seen that tends to report it most accurately is CNN.

      Believe me or not...up to you. But don't quote anything from FNC as a source unless you have other, less biased sources to back it up...that's all I'm sayin'.

      CE
      Anthony Flessas
      Writer/Producer/Director,
      SP Pictures


      I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

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      • #33
        Odd. I have seen conservatives in the news. See 'em all the time. So claiming Fox has some sort of conservative viewpoint all to itself is stretching things to say the least.

        I have listened to NPR. While it's specials and content are liberal to the point of silly, I've detected no major slant to their main news show, All Things Considered, which I listened to frequently in the run-up to the Iraq war. One of the few places where I heard news stories showing both sides of the WMD issues, discussed in serious terms pro and con rather than "He's got nukes, let's git 'em" crap every other outlet was spewing at the time (which also begs the question of how liberal the media really was when they all said the same thing, on cue, except for one bitty public radio program). It's a pity I haven't tuned into it lately - doesn't come in well in the area I'm in now.

        Can't comment on ABC radio, never listened. ABC TV national news is as usual quite serious, but seems no different than any other major outlet.

        You're a conservative, you like Fox, you're right, more power to you. Just don't pretend they have some special rail-against-the-liberal calling. When most news bits report Jacko's latest sicko crime over the latest car bombing against US soldiers, you can hardly call FNC some high and mighty conservative bastion. Watch Fox, and judge Fox, as you will - shafting all other sources as liberal just 'cuz makes you as good as a zombie.
        Last edited by Radhil; 08-02-2004, 11:18 AM.
        Radhil Trebors
        Persona Under Construction

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        • #34
          which also begs the question of how liberal the media really was
          The Liberal Media is a myth created by the Conservative Media.
          Hell, they even Brag about it.

          Rush "Oxycontin" Limbutt and Mikey "Rabid" Savage are foaming at the mouth in almost every city in the US.

          But the Liberal "Air America" is fighting for both Funds and Air Time.


          For a good B5 tie in, BTW, rewatch The Illusion of Truth. JMS Nailed the problem.

          Oh, Isn't that also where the phrase We Report, You Decide came from??


          If it's a little close to home...
          you have to remember I came out of journalism, that was where I cut my teeth as a writer, working for newspapers and magazines.
          You see a lot of the tricks, some good, some not so good, used for purposes that are sometimes good or not so good, distortions on the left and distortions on the right.
          So it wasn't hard to just tweak it a bit.
          jms
          #

          Funny thing is, I've since received several requests from instructors at various colleges asking if they could use the show in their classroom to illustrate the points raised. Kinda nice....

          # I don't make any blanket condemnations of journalists.
          For one thing, there's a difference between portraying journalism in a relatively free society, and one that's operating under a dictatorship, a la President Clark.
          It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
          jms
          Last edited by bakana; 08-02-2004, 01:48 PM.

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          • #35
            Just found this today.
            Not only is it sorta pertinent to this discussion, but it also provides a bit of insight into a few more reasons Why we didn't get Crusade or Legend of the Rangers.

            And why it's getting harder for Good TV Shows, in any genre, to get on the air and/or stay there.

            My Beef with Big Media

            My Beef With Big Media

            How government protects big media--and shuts out upstarts like me.

            By Ted Turner

            In the late 1960s, when Turner Communications was a business of billboards and radio stations and I was spending much of my energy ocean racing, a UHF-TV station came up for sale in Atlanta. It was losing $50,000 a month and its programs were viewed by fewer than 5 percent of the market.

            I acquired it.

            When I moved to buy a second station in Charlotte--this one worse than the first--my accountant quit in protest, and the company's board vetoed the deal. So I mortgaged my house and bought it myself. The Atlanta purchase turned into the Superstation; the Charlotte purchase--when I sold it 10 years later--gave me the capital to launch CNN.

            Both purchases played a role in revolutionizing television. Both required a streak of independence and a taste for risk. And neither could happen today. In the current climate of consolidation, independent broadcasters simply don't survive for long. That's why we haven't seen a new generation of people like me or even Rupert Murdoch--independent television upstarts who challenge the big boys and force the whole industry to compete and change.

            It's not that there aren't entrepreneurs eager to make their names and fortunes in broadcasting if given the chance. If nothing else, the 1990s dot-com boom showed that the spirit of entrepreneurship is alive and well in America, with plenty of investors willing to put real money into new media ventures. The difference is that Washington has changed the rules of the game. When I was getting into the television business, lawmakers and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) took seriously the commission's mandate to promote diversity, localism, and competition in the media marketplace. They wanted to make sure that the big, established networks--CBS, ABC, NBC--wouldn't forever dominate what the American public could watch on TV. They wanted independent producers to thrive. They wanted more people to be able to own TV stations. They believed in the value of competition.

            That was then.

            Today, media companies are more concentrated than at any time over the past 40 years, thanks to a continual loosening of ownership rules by Washington. The media giants now own not only broadcast networks and local stations; they also own the cable companies that pipe in the signals of their competitors and the studios that produce most of the programming. To get a flavor of how consolidated the industry has become, consider this: In 1990, the major broadcast networks--ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox--fully or partially owned just 12.5 percent of the new series they aired. By 2000, it was 56.3 percent. Just two years later, it had surged to 77.5 percent.

            In this environment, most independent media firms either get gobbled up by one of the big companies or driven out of business altogether. Yet instead of balancing the rules to give independent broadcasters a fair chance in the market, Washington continues to tilt the playing field to favor the biggest players. Last summer, the FCC passed another round of sweeping pro-consolidation rules that, among other things, further raised the cap on the number of TV stations a company can own.

            There's a lot more on the web site...


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            • #36
              Ted Turner...the force behind World Championship Wrestling on TBS and TNT.
              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

              Comment


              • #37
                I read that article a while ago. While I was a little leery of viewing Ted Turner as the "little guy" in media, most of what he put down in that article made a lot of sense.
                Radhil Trebors
                Persona Under Construction

                Comment


                • #38
                  Well, Turner didn't claim to be a "little guy".

                  The point he seemed to be making was that, even with His money, it is now almost impossible to compete.

                  He was pretty wel forced to Sell his operation to Warner.

                  As he said in one line he "Almost made it". The key word being Almost.

                  Sure, he walked away with a fortune but what he Wanted to walk away with was owning his own company.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Michael Moore F911 lies and half truths

                    Originally posted by CCKyle
                    I can't get on the newsgroups, so I thought I would post this here. JMS said no one has come forth with any of the lies Moore tells in F911. I thought I'd post just a few of them here.
                    Now don't get me wrong... in NO way I approve of lying to an audience, and if those accusations are true, I honestly wish Moore would have been more careful...

                    BUT... if those are actually the ONLY lies that his enemies could find in the film, and the rest of it is true... then I have to say that it would be more appropriate to concentrate on the other facts that he presented and actually think about THAT, and asking hard questions about your leadership than bashing Moore because of those "mistakes". I mean, come on, if you already react so heavily about Moore's slight twist of rather small and not-that-important facts which don't really harm anyone, shouldn't you be furious about your government sending over thousand US-Soldiers into their death, and all for the wrong reasons??

                    Just a thought...
                    Last edited by cornholio1980; 08-06-2004, 03:49 PM.

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                    • #40
                      If you want a fair and balanced documentary that has much to say about the Iraq invasion situation rent The Fog of War by Errol Morris. An interview with former secretary of defense Robert McNamara...

                      If Fahrenheit and Fog of War were talk shows Moore's movie is one of the many entertainment discussion shows on cable news channels, Morris documentary on the other hand is like Charlie Rose: intelligent discussion not intended to become entertainment, but it is intellectually stimulating.
                      Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                      James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                      • #41
                        I'd heard briefly of that before, thanks for bringing it up and reminding me. I'll try and keep an eye out for it.
                        Radhil Trebors
                        Persona Under Construction

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                        • #42
                          I must say that I lost respect for JMS when he said that F911 was 70% fact and 30% analysis.

                          Originally posted by bakana
                          Rush "Oxycontin" Limbutt and Mikey "Rabid" Savage are foaming at the mouth in almost every city in the US.

                          But the Liberal "Air America" is fighting for both Funds and Air Time.
                          Advertisers pay for audience, not ideology.

                          Limbaugh has paid a stiff price for his big mouth and drug problem this past year and he is still running a profitable business. Where is the conspiracy to suppress the leftist view point?

                          Air America is offline because it is staffed by talentless idiots that can not hold an audience. Not only that, but they don't pay their bills. Their air time was yanked by stations they stiffed, not by the VRWC. Air America was a complete publicity stunt.

                          How about NPR? Federally funded leftist propaganda. I wonder how long it would last without our tax dollars? Not long.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Re: Michael Moore F911 lies and half truths

                            Originally posted by cornholio1980
                            [I mean, come on, if you already react so heavily about Moore's slight twist of rather small and not-that-important facts which don't really harm anyone, shouldn't you be furious about your government sending over thousand US-Soldiers into their death, and all for the wrong reasons??
                            Just a thought... [/B]
                            I have a suggestion. Why not buy some copies of F911 when it comes out on DVD and take it to Iraq and sell it to the 26 million FREE Iraqis. They probably deserve to know the truth about what happened.

                            I guess I would be more impressed with Moore's 'abilities' if he had first produced a documentary about the 800,000 people who were killed in Rwanda while Bill Clinton practiced on his bongo drums.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore F911 lies and half truths

                              Originally posted by Vorpal
                              I have a suggestion. Why not buy some copies of F911 when it comes out on DVD and take it to Iraq and sell it to the 26 million FREE Iraqis. They probably deserve to know the truth about what happened.

                              I guess I would be more impressed with Moore's 'abilities' if he had first produced a documentary about the 800,000 people who were killed in Rwanda while Bill Clinton practiced on his bongo drums.
                              I have a better suggestion. Why don't you take the DVD's over there and try to sell them yourself without getting your head cut off by insurgents. If these people, Iraqi's, are so free, why is all of this violence still going on? If we are soooooo appreciated for "liberating' these people, then why are people having their heads chopped off?

                              Who have we handed Hussein over to? We're still guarding him.
                              If there is a provisional government and the people are free ... why are our troops still needed?
                              "If I could be a bird, I'd be a Flying Purple People Eater because then people would sing about me and I could fly down and eat them because I hate that song. " - Jack Handey

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Vorpal
                                I must say that I lost respect for JMS when he said that F911 was 70% fact and 30% analysis.

                                [...]

                                How about NPR? Federally funded leftist propaganda. I wonder how long it would last without our tax dollars? Not long.
                                If JMS had said it was 100% fact I'd have lost respect for him.
                                I think his guesstimate is good.
                                The problem with Moore may be that in that 30% analysis he skews the 70% facts and makes it look like less factual than it is.
                                Something that politicians always do, BTW.

                                Note that NPR airs in public radio in most parts, which is listener supported radio for the most part. Without federal money I suspect that the same listener support coudl hold NPR going for a while...


                                Shadow Sentient:
                                Quick questions:
                                - Was South Vietnam free during the Vietnam War?
                                - Have you ever read anything about what happened in Afghanistan?

                                I think both Vietnam then, and Afghanistan more recently, were free even if US troops were there.
                                Remeber how the Taliban came to power in Afghanistan? Because if the US troops leave Iraq that is exactly what will happen...
                                It's a very complicated situation, the US shouldn't have gone in and toppled Hussein, but now that they're in they can't leave (unless someone takes their place).
                                The Iraqis have been under a totalitarian regime for decades, establishing a democracy in such a situation may take several years.
                                Until there is a national Iraqi army to keep the peace and ensure that no local warlord or fundamentalist group will try to take over and establish a new dictatorship there will be a need for foreign troops.
                                Had the US worked through the UN things might have been different.
                                Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                                James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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