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The concept of time travel

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  • The concept of time travel

    The current ongoings in LOST made me think about this subject again, because as it now is i.e. Sawyer would live on the island as a member of the initiative while his much younger self lives back in the states.

    I for one don't believe that it would be possible to go back to a distinct point in time by whatever means. But let's assume for one moment that it IS possible.
    I don't want to go into the usual "What if I kill my dad before he meets my mom" paradox.
    Instead let's say I decide to go back just 10 minutes without spacial shift. This would mean that for 9.599999 minutes there are two "me"s existing at the very same spot.
    First off: Let's assume that there are such things as souls. Wouldn't it contradict the concept of the unique soul that the very same soul exists TWICE at the same time at the same place?
    Secondly: Let's say after 8 minutes the second me goes back another 5 minutes. That would mean for another 4.5999 minutes there are THREE "me"s existing at the same spot...!
    The only consistent thing about this model is that only ONE "me" would live beyond the point of the first jump. Namely the third one...

    In Sawyer's case that would mean that if he doesn't jump anywhen else or dies before the crash, his initiative self would live on AND he would theoretically be able to meet his younger self on the island after the crash.
    Funny thought/plot models arise out of this...
    Last edited by I love Lyta; 03-26-2009, 04:27 AM.
    What's up Drakh?

  • #2
    Maybe Sawyer will go on a walkabout and meet himself :P

    We've seen that huge statue of the alien with the three toes so I'm betting the island is a busted contraption that messes with space and time, a tesseract I think it's called. Of course that is 100% speculation and mad raving on my part.
    Last edited by Spoo Junky; 03-26-2009, 05:39 AM.
    Flying around the room under my own power.

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    • #3
      Souls exist beyond time, so you would only have one soul.
      Only the constructs we perceive to be "matter" are bound by time.

      It's really funny when you think about it, all everything is is clouds of little atoms all floating around buzzing about yet people go throught their earthly lives with silly delusions like "solid objects" I'm absolutely sure there is enough space between the atoms in your body that a few of you could stand in the same spot without a problem.
      "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
      "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

      "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by I love Lyta View Post
        In Sawyer's case that would mean that if he doesn't jump anywhen else or dies before the crash, his initiative self would live on AND he would theoretically be able to meet his younger self on the island after the crash.
        Funny thought/plot models arise out of this...
        Yeah, but.. Lost seems to be operating on the theory that they can't change anything, everything that's happened or will happen has already happened.

        So given that Sawyer did not meet his older self in previous seasons, he will not do so this time either.

        Of course, it is possible that Sawyer left the island in the 70's, and travelled the world.. and he might've come across his younger self at some point, but if that happened the younger Sawyer did not recognize him.

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        • #5
          Maybe Sawyer will go on a walkabout and meet himself :P
          Hehe, good one!

          @Marsden: I didn't really mean EXACTLY the same spot. More like the same room...
          Though there was a movie or show once in which it was said that the same particle cannot occupy the same space twice. Meaning a time traveller is unable to meet his younger or older self.
          Also your statement concerning the soul would mean that all three incarnations of myslef would share one soul.
          Talk about soulmates....

          @vakie:
          Too bad I can't re-watch the episode in which Ben first met Sayid to see whether there is some sort of recognition showing on his face or not...

          To top things: Let's say during my little experiment a second person enters the room eleven minutes before my first travel ten minutes backwards. He would see me, and all of the sudden one minute later a second me would appear out of nowhere. And another three minutes later a third me. I guess that second person would go crazy...
          Last edited by I love Lyta; 03-26-2009, 06:49 AM.
          What's up Drakh?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by I love Lyta View Post
            Hehe, good one!
            @vakie:
            Too bad I can't re-watch the episode in which Ben first met Sayid to see whether there is some sort of recognition showing on his face or not...
            Judging by what happened, I would say no.
            I guess Farraday was wrong, huh?
            Only a fool fights in a burning house.

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            • #7
              Never mind.


              SPOILER












              It doesn't look like Ben is dead.
              Only a fool fights in a burning house.

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              • #8
                Even before I let the concept of actual time travel give me a headache, I end up scratching my head over people actually thinking that they could travel back in time and end up in the location they started from. Even in those ten minutes I love Lyta postulates in the original post, the Earth has moved a *long* way.

                It's comforting to think that they may discover time travel or they may discover teleportation but it'll be a long time before they manage to combine the two.

                Jan
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jan View Post
                  Even before I let the concept of actual time travel give me a headache, I end up scratching my head over people actually thinking that they could travel back in time and end up in the location they started from. Even in those ten minutes I love Lyta postulates in the original post, the Earth has moved a *long* way.

                  It's comforting to think that they may discover time travel or they may discover teleportation but it'll be a long time before they manage to combine the two.

                  Jan
                  Indeed, if you had a device that would send you back 10 minutes in time, and you would "land" at the same spot in the universe you left from, you'd be floating in space. The Earth is orbiting the Sun at a speed of 30 km/s (108,000 km/h), not to mention that our whole solar system and galaxy is moving through the universe, so the Earth is moving even faster than that, relatively. IIRC.

                  edited to add:

                  Checked, our Galaxy is moving at a speed of approximately 600 km/s, so the Earth travels 51.84 million km per day, or more than 18.9 billion km per year. So if you travelled 10 years into the past, you'd be 189 billion kilometres from Earth, somewhere in space. Wear a space suit, and hope you don't run into any asteroids or stars.

                  If you travel 10 minutes, you'd only be about 380 000 km's from Earth.
                  Last edited by vakie; 03-26-2009, 11:45 AM.

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                  • #10
                    So.... who do you sue when you get whiplash from the earth flitting back and forth in time? I'm just being silly, don't mind me.
                    Flying around the room under my own power.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by I love Lyta View Post
                      First off: Let's assume that there are such things as souls. Wouldn't it contradict the concept of the unique soul that the very same soul exists TWICE at the same time at the same place?
                      Secondly: Let's say after 8 minutes the second me goes back another 5 minutes. That would mean for another 4.5999 minutes there are THREE "me"s existing at the same spot...!
                      The only consistent thing about this model is that only ONE "me" would live beyond the point of the first jump. Namely the third one...
                      Souls aside; which is an interesting thought, by the way, and handled a bit by Quantum Leap in terms of time travel.

                      Scientifically, the Pauli Exclusion Principle may be in effect -- in overly simplified terms, no two like particles can occupy the same quantum state. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_exclusion_principle

                      Would it cause a rupture in the fabric of space time if Sawyer met 1970s Sawyer? I dunno; I'm not qualified to answer or speculate on that. But Doc Brown seems to think so.

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                      • #12
                        Look at me! Look at me!

                        * CANT WRITE WELL THOUGHTOUT RESPONSE TO TIME TRAVEL *

                        Sheridan's life in a circle -

                        http://jmsnews.com/forums/showpost.p...7&postcount=68


                        please read older replies to the same subject - Terminator series and 12 Monkeys (Da movies).

                        http://jmsnews.com/forums/showpost.p...1&postcount=25

                        http://jmsnews.com/forums/showpost.p...2&postcount=28
                        Last edited by rallytbk; 03-26-2009, 02:46 PM.
                        "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein

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                        • #13
                          Good point about the spacial aspect there, Jan...

                          Oh well, I guess we'll never know. It was just some silly thoughts that immediately sprang to mind.

                          As for LOST spoilers concerning dead people: Be prepared for a big surprise...
                          What's up Drakh?

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                          • #14
                            In Dean Koontz's Lightning (which involved time traveling Nazis - they always had the best toys), he included the spacial equation in his time travel formula. In particular, there is a scene near the end of the book where the hero travels back from the 1980s to his own period of the 1940s. Using information readily available in the 80s and a computer, he is able to transport himself to the exact location of Winston Churchill's inner sanctum in order to speak to him.
                            Only a fool fights in a burning house.

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                            • #15
                              Sounds interresting...

                              I remember an awful flick called "Time Rider" in which the protagonist accidentally (as in he did't know who she was) humped his own grand-grandma.
                              What's up Drakh?

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