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  • #91
    We shouldn't let the neck free zone formally known as Mr Star Wars off the hook. He has made 2 really good films, 2 not too bad films and one stinker (with some good bits). If he doesn't make the third film at least as not bad as Jedi (hopefully alot better) I think an angry village mob to Castle Lucastein is in order.
    I have the wings for Bingo.

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    • #92
      Curious that so many people are pounding RotJ.
      Personally I didn't consider it THAT bad.
      Granted the DS recycling and the Ewok bit were not his best ideas but I consider Ep1 and 2 far worse(with the exception of the Darth Maul showdown and Christopher Lee playing a Sith Lord).
      The only real highlight of Ep2 IMO was Mace Windu's line:"This party's over."
      What's up Drakh?

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      • #93
        The earlier draft of Return of the Jedi sounded better with the Two Death Stars being built over the Imperial throne world, ,Grand Moff Jejerrod being Vader's nemesis and the confrontation with the emperor and vader taking place near a lava pit where Palps get dunked at the end. And wookies not ewoks. Looks like alot of those ideas are being rehashed for Revenge of the Sith. Though they did have some nonsense about Obi Wan coming back from the dead and calling the emperor names.
        I have the wings for Bingo.

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        • #94
          Re: lest we forget... a reminder to the sci-fi crowd

          Originally posted by dimension_boy
          Spot on my brightly colored friend!

          I was 13 when Star Wars came out and it blew me away.

          So that means that at about 15 years old, I was ready for more action in #2 (what they eventually called #5) but actually left disappointed that it was such a downer.... but that didn't make me hate the film.

          Star Wars is not only the best Sci-Fi on the big screen that we can get... it's actually high quality for a number of reasons.

          You know, I actually prefered tESB BECAUSE it has a downer of an ending. In this film, the good guys get their arses well and truly kicked! It made it more real, the characters actually have a real and personal stake to take care of in the next one because of it.

          As for RotS, think about it...this is a film which can IN NO WAY have an upbeat ending. We have to see the system-wide crushing of freedom and justice via the start of the Jedi pogrom, with the last 2 great Jedi fleeing for their very lives (Obi-Wan leaving with Luke, seemingly totally unaware of Leia's existence, away to Tatooine where he can keep a discreet eye on him and Yoda, who has little choice but to spirit Leia away to Alderaan before hiding down on Degobah). SW III cannot have a happy ending.

          If GL is brave enough to do it this way, he will not only give the SW franchise the kick in the pants that it REALLY needs, but will end the story in such a way that it dove-tails perfectly with what we know happens in SW- ANH.

          Down-beat ending? I, for one, am quite hoping for it!

          As for BIG SCREEN sf, is SW actually sf? I tend to think of it more as space fantasy. Things like Minority Report and The Matrix are more your typical science-fiction-proper movies.

          Or not.
          Last edited by DGTWoodward; 11-29-2004, 01:32 PM.
          http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?a...er=dgtwoodward
          Yes, I still collect Laserdiscs!!
          47" Phillips 1080p 46" Samsung 1080p Toshiba HD-30E (2 both Multi Region) PS3-80G 120G BR Multi-Region Maidstone MD-BR-2102 Sky-HD Freesat-HD Pioneer DVL-909 CLD-D925 CLD-2950 (AC3) CLD-D515 CLD S315 Yamaha ADP-1 Meridian 519 Pioneer 609 (DD/DTS) x 2 Speakers & subs Jammo M/S Pioneer Technics Sony Eltax Akai Aiwa

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          • #95
            <<As for RotS, think about it...this is a film which can IN NO WAY have an upbeat ending. We have to see the system-wide crushing of freedom and justice via the start of the Jedi pogrom, with the last 2 great Jedi fleeing for their very lives (Obi-Wan leaving with Luke, seemingly totally unaware of Leia's existence, away to Tatooine where he can keep a discreet eye on him and Yoda, who has little choice but to spirit Leia away to Alderaan before hiding down on Degobah). SW III cannot have a happy ending.>>

            In a rare excellent SW novel entitled Shatterpoint by Matt Stover, he pretty much focuses on this very subtly. At the very end, the star of the book, Mace Windu, is thinking about how Anakin seems to be going dark, but the prophecy says he is the Chosen One so they must see it through. And in the end, he did turn out to be the one who brought balance to the Force. It's kind of like going through hell before you get the heaven.

            So yes, while it will end on a down note, there is the hope of the prophecy in mind. That's the bad thing about a prequel...we already know how the saga ends.
            Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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            • #96
              <<Though they did have some nonsense about Obi Wan coming back from the dead and calling the emperor names.>>

              Have you ever read the "Thrawn Trilogy" by Timothy Zahn? His original idea was to have an evil Obi-Wan clone be the enemy in the books, but Lucasfilm shot him down. So he came up with the Joruus C'baoth character instead.

              <<with the last 2 great Jedi fleeing for their very lives>>

              This is just a tangent here, but did you know that there isn't anything in canon that says that those two were the last Jedi? Tarkin says "The Jedi are extinct," but it was probably more out of arrogance than anything else. Obi-Wan himself told Luke "..and now the Jedi are all but extinct." I believe the ANH novelization hints that there are other Jedi out there, probably hiding deep in the cracks of society.
              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

              Comment


              • #97
                Yeah ZHDD I New about the Obii Wan Kenobi idea, I think it sprang from a very early speculation that Obi Wan was really O.B.1 and that he fought in the clone wars as a clone and that was his serial number. (daft really) The Noghri were originally going to be called Sith too.

                While I agree it would make perfect sense to have some more Jedi survivors and the expanded universe books and comics have taken this idea up. I think the man himself has stated that not only are Obi-Wan and Yoda the last of the old Jedi but Luke and Leia were the last potential Jedi born, Which really puts alot of responsabilty on Luke and Leia to go out and make Jedi whoopee.
                I have the wings for Bingo.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Shr'eshhhhhh
                  The earlier draft of Return of the Jedi sounded better with the
                  I never knew there was another version.
                  What's up Drakh?

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                  • #99
                    The Original version of the story is quite different from the final filmed story. As I said before 2 Death Stars were to be built over the throne world (Later named Corscant in the books and prequels). Vader is in the Emperor's bad books for not capturing Luke and a New Grand Moff Jejerrod has replaced him as the emperor's right hand man. Vader is religated to overseering the constructions of the death stars which are protected by an energy beam projected from one of the throne world's moons. A forest planet (later Endor) Luke hands himself in and the Emperor starts to work on him,Vader kills the grand moff and (here's where it gets a bit silly) Ben comes back from the dead and spent alot of the early draft just calling Palps rude names. The final confrontation between Vader Palps and Luke took place in his throne room in the bowels of the throne world (surronded by lava,) Vader throws The Emperor into the lava. in most other repects it's the same as filmed.
                    I have the wings for Bingo.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller

                      <<with the last 2 great Jedi fleeing for their very lives>>

                      This is just a tangent here, but did you know that there isn't anything in canon that says that those two were the last Jedi? Tarkin says "The Jedi are extinct," but it was probably more out of arrogance than anything else. Obi-Wan himself told Luke "..and now the Jedi are all but extinct." I believe the ANH novelization hints that there are other Jedi out there, probably hiding deep in the cracks of society.
                      Well I did actually say "...last 2 GREAT Jedi..." so by implication.....OK, I put my hands up - you got me!!!
                      I concede that you are quite correct. You cannot really argue with "....ALL but extinct"
                      http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?a...er=dgtwoodward
                      Yes, I still collect Laserdiscs!!
                      47" Phillips 1080p 46" Samsung 1080p Toshiba HD-30E (2 both Multi Region) PS3-80G 120G BR Multi-Region Maidstone MD-BR-2102 Sky-HD Freesat-HD Pioneer DVL-909 CLD-D925 CLD-2950 (AC3) CLD-D515 CLD S315 Yamaha ADP-1 Meridian 519 Pioneer 609 (DD/DTS) x 2 Speakers & subs Jammo M/S Pioneer Technics Sony Eltax Akai Aiwa

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                      • Originally posted by LightStorm
                        Well I did actually say "...last 2 GREAT Jedi..." so by implication.....OK, I put my hands up - you got me!!!
                        I concede that you are quite correct. You cannot really argue with "....ALL but extinct"
                        Something just came to me. I believe it is in the ANH novelization where it says something like lightsabers were a rare sight. Rare means that they are out there. But are they in the hands of Jedi?
                        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                        Comment


                        • I disagree with several of you about the overall legacy of the Star Wars movies. I have enjoyed all five, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the last one as well.

                          As a kid (born in 1978) I was too young to catch the original trilogy in the cinema's. But I grew up with Star Wars being something fantastic and spectacular. I saw them in the mid 80's, and they became something incredible in my imagination. As good as the movies are, they were much better in my mind. When I finally saw them again (and again, and again) during the 90's they never let me down.

                          Episode 4

                          The start of the story, all the interesting characters, and that wonderful galaxy for the first time. I would love it just as much without the lightsabre fights, and the terrible villains. Tatooine, with the cool city of Mos Eisley, Obi Wan's Jedi trick, Han Solo and Chewbacca, the death star, the marvellous finish, what's not to like?

                          Episode 5

                          The winter scene shot in Norway started the movie. We got a great and exciting fight with the rebel alliance eventually managing to escape mostly intact. We got to see Yoda for the first time, and learned more about the ways of the Jedi. There was humour with the droids and Han Solo. Lando Calrissian joined the story with his great city. We got to see more of Darth Vader, and we all know how that story developed. Great movie. I think most SF fans can agree so far.

                          Episode 6

                          Now I feel this is where the unfair criticism often starts. Now I think about the original trilogy as about equally good, and then I come here and see people putting the movie down. I have also seen that the movie tends to get lower grades than the first two (IMDB for instance). What is it about this movie that deserves that treatment? We have probably the best start of all three movies, taking place on Tatooine. Luke is finally a Jedi. Interesting and returning characters Boba Fett and Jabba the Hutt gets killed (at least it appears that way from the movie). We have a new deathstar, and we have a lot of action on two fronts, the planet of endor and inside the death star with Luke vs Darth Vader and the Emperor. Can it get any better? Of course Endor is populated by a small people, good that not every character in that galaxy is superrough and actionfilled. It's a bit like Lord of the Rings with the Hobbit's. The ending is outstanding. It ends happily, but what movies don't, and why should it end unhappily? Lord of the Rings ends happily as well. RoTJ is a stunner of a movie.

                          Episode 1

                          This is where it gets tricky. George Lucas finally decides to make a new trilogy. He gets the best of the best to work with it, both on and off the camera. He is personally, as should be expected, heavily involved. He decides to make the movie about Anakin as a little boy, making it more into a kids movie than the previous ones, and he also decides to include the data animated character Jar Jar Binks, a clumsy, somewhat stupid, lucky, and weird talking character. Jake Lloyd who plays Anakin is a great choice. If the kid had to be that young, he couldn't have chosen a better actor for the role. The pod racing scene is amazing, the planet of Naboo is great, Tatooine looks better than ever, we finally get to see Coruscant. We get to see droids, battle droids, and a new sith called Darth Maul, who most boys will love. The worst scene of the movie is without a doubt when Jar Jar fights the droids (although it's beautifully made), because with his luck he destroys many of them. He does lose in the end though, and only Anakin destroying the mothership saves him and his people. I saw the movie again less than a week ago, and knowing about Jar Jar from before, makes the movie better every time, I can accept it now. With a toned down, less lucky Jar Jar though, the movie would have been as good as the original movies. I still think it's a great movie.

                          Episode 2

                          A completely toned down Jar Jar, and a grown up Anakin sets the stage for this movie to be even better than Episode 1. The movie is incredibly beautiful, the fighting scenes are glorious, and the acting is very good. We get more of many of the things we saw in Episode 1, we get to see more of Coruscant, including flying cars and a night club. We get to see Anakin get more and more dark as his mother dies. For me, the story in this movie delivers in every way, and I can't wait for Episode 3.

                          Episode 3

                          Hopefully incredible.

                          I just think that too many people are too negative, and can't appreciate a good thing when they get it. The same is the case with Babylon 5. I never understood how so many can hate the series, JMS did a wonderful job with every part of it. Just like George Lucas has done a wonderful job with Star Wars. In a decade from now, when the dust has settled, the final trilogy will be looked upon as a masterpiece. Perhaps we will even get an Episode one version with a toned down Jar Jar?

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                          • <<<The same is the case with Babylon 5. I never understood how so many can hate the series>>>

                            I never met a single person who saw the entire show and said Babylon 5 is bad,there are those that watched 3 episodes from the 5th season,so of course B5 is bad,you come down right in the middle of it,those who saw the entire show always said B5 is amazing.
                            Sleeping in Light-----Darnit! Shut the Window.

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                            • The movie is incredibly beautiful,
                              OK, check.
                              the fighting scenes are glorious,
                              Ditto, we're flying there.
                              and the acting is very good.
                              Mayday, mayday, MAYDAAAAYYYY.

                              No, no, no. This is why the movie is so heavily trashed as it is - because the acting is so horrible. Summer action blockbusters with no draw other than a body count have better acting than Episode II, which could have conceivably used entirely computer generated characters and get the same emotional impact. Namely, none.

                              Even the original trilogy at least had good acting. Cheesy and hammy at points, but serviceable acting. This had nothing. It felt like a recital, a high school play rehearsel where everyone is reading off sheets deadpan. I've been to a poetry reading from some New York beat goth wannabe where I've felt less waste of my life than watching Ep2.

                              OK, the plot had some decent points, but I half expected Anakin's skin to split and see C3PO parts inside him already. He was that wooden and stiff. Ditto his so-called love, which has about as much spark as a swamp.

                              Ep2 was a very pretty movie. But I'd rather watch a game FMV for pretty stuff 50 times over than watch it again - it'd have more character.

                              On that note, I'd consider TRON as an example Lucas should live up to.

                              You mention a lot of what you get to see - maybe that's why you like 'em, for the eye candy. More power to you. May the Lucas Omni Editions be with you.
                              Last edited by Radhil; 12-01-2004, 09:08 PM.
                              Radhil Trebors
                              Persona Under Construction

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                              • I agree with everything so far.

                                Originally posted by Anders
                                Of course Endor is populated by a small people, good that not every character in that galaxy is superrough and actionfilled. It's a bit like Lord of the Rings with the Hobbit's. The ending is outstanding. It ends happily, but what movies don't, and why should it end unhappily? Lord of the Rings ends happily as well. RoTJ is a stunner of a movie.
                                I don't really mind the cuddly bears, had it not been for the fact that they are actually man-eating carnivours! But everyone seems to have forgotten that at the end of the movie, because they're on our side.
                                But they're too cuddly. That and their flying contraption felt so out of place. In other respects they seem to be at the stone age level, but they have build a hangglider!?

                                Episode 1

                                This is where it gets tricky. George Lucas finally decides to make a new trilogy. He gets the best of the best to work with it, both on and off the camera. He is personally, as should be expected, heavily involved. He decides to make the movie about Anakin as a little boy, making it more into a kids movie than the previous ones, and he also decides to include the data animated character Jar Jar Binks, a clumsy, somewhat stupid, lucky, and weird talking character. Jake Lloyd who plays Anakin is a great choice. If the kid had to be that young, he couldn't have chosen a better actor for the role. The pod racing scene is amazing, the planet of Naboo is great, Tatooine looks better than ever, we finally get to see Coruscant. We get to see droids, battle droids, and a new sith called Darth Maul, who most boys will love. The worst scene of the movie is without a doubt when Jar Jar fights the droids (although it's beautifully made), because with his luck he destroys many of them. He does lose in the end though, and only Anakin destroying the mothership saves him and his people. I saw the movie again less than a week ago, and knowing about Jar Jar from before, makes the movie better every time, I can accept it now. With a toned down, less lucky Jar Jar though, the movie would have been as good as the original movies. I still think it's a great movie.
                                I agree with most of the above, so what's wrong with this movie?
                                The pod racing scene is beautiful, and 20 years ago (or more) I would have loved it - but it didn't mean anything!
                                As you said: Jar Jar was too lucky at that battle.
                                And Anakin's destroying the mother ship! Aaaaarrrggghhhhhh!


                                Episode 2
                                Pretty but ... hmm.
                                Lame love scenes (no I don't need more sex but I thought the lovers were simply lame)
                                And that hunt through the asteroid belt!? There was even an asteroid with a handle, like a cup, that someone could fly through. 20 years ago I would have loved it, but now, it feels empty with a glossy surface.


                                Episode 3

                                Hopefully incredible.
                                Me too!
                                /IamS
                                Interstellar Alliance - Sweden's largest Babylon 5-club
                                http://www.babcon.org/

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