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TNG reimagining

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  • cornholio1980
    replied
    Re: Re: Re: TNG reimagining

    Originally posted by Mariel
    You should give season 3 a shot. It's better then the other two.
    I certainly hope so. Don't get me wrong, Babylon 5 is my favourite show ever, but I would still consider me a trekkie (or trekker or however you wanna call trek-fans nowadays *g*). And seeing the first 2 really weak seasons was REALLY painful.

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  • Mariel
    replied
    Re: Re: TNG reimagining

    Originally posted by cornholio1980
    For me, DS9 is the second-worst trek show... just after Enterprise (I should add that I haven't seen the 3rd season yet).
    You should give season 3 a shot. It's better then the other two.
    And I agree with you about DS9, not my favorite either.

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  • cornholio1980
    replied
    Re: TNG reimagining

    Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
    TNG - How it Should Have Gone
    Unfortunately I have to say that *I* wouldn't have been to happy with such a show. Yes, I know, many people hate TNG for all its shortcomings in comparison to Babylon 5, and while I am definitely a great B5-Fan that thinks that it is the best show ever produced for TV... TNG comes second. Yes, there was no arc, the characters didn't change a bit during those 7 seasons... but it had the best stand-alone-episodes of all trek shows... just good scifi-stuff...

    Actually, when ST tried to rip off B5 with DS9, it could never really grab me... this whole stuff about the prophets, the emissary etc. just didn't do it for me... even the Dominion War couldn't change my opinion. For me, DS9 is the second-worst trek show... just after Enterprise (I should add that I haven't seen the 3rd season yet).

    So, yeah... TNG had many weaknesses... but it also had charme, interesting characters, good actors, great humor and some really great SF-stories... and that's exactly why I like(d) the show so much...

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  • colonyearth
    replied
    This fudging of time is also adjusted by usage of exteriors and establishing shots which can then be held on for various amounts of time allowing for adjusting.

    CE

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  • bakana
    replied
    I can't remember why they decided to put it into ITF
    Usually, when they did something like that it was because one episode ran a tiny bit Longer than it should and the other was a little bit Short.

    The episodes have to be an Exact length. 1 hour, minus Commercial time. And the commercial breaks are always the same length.

    So, sometimes they have to tinker a bit to get it Just Right.

    In this case, it was obviously Info JMS considered Important, but When it was delivered wasn't critical.

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  • Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt
    replied
    Although he did have the big plan, not all of JMS' scenes made it into the episodes where they were originally intended, some were reshuffled after they were shot. The one that comes to mind is the scene with Lorien and Ivonova, where he tells her that only beings with a limited lifespan could imagine that love is eternal....Into the Fire, I believe. I remember reading that JMS said the scene was originally shot to go in the previous episode, The Long Night. I can't remember why they decided to put it into ITF, I looked for the quote but didn't find it.

    Not exactly what was being discussed, but somewhat related.

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  • Chakoteya
    replied
    Originally posted by RCmodeler
    So I'll just go watch Stargate's war arc instead.
    ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

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  • RCmodeler
    replied
    Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
    <<For example, the episode I just watched "Shadowplay" could have aired *anytime* during season 2, even though it references the Dominion.>>
    Bad example. They were still early in the series there. Come the 4th, 5th and 6th seasons, they'd reference stuff from two, three, ten episodes prior.
    Which means they could still do a little juggling with the stand-alone episodes. Like air episode 511, because episode 510 is still in editing. Rick Berman *insisted* upon having that flexibility with DS9 and VOY.

    BTW, why don't you use the *standard* method of quoting??? That's why it's there. Why use the non-standard bracketing?
    Last edited by RCmodeler; 07-14-2004, 08:35 AM.

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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    <<For example, the episode I just watched "Shadowplay" could have aired *anytime* during season 2, even though it references the Dominion.>>

    Bad example. They were still early in the series there. Come the 4th, 5th and 6th seasons, they'd reference stuff from two, three, ten episodes prior.

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  • RCmodeler
    replied
    A one line reference to the Dominion did not prevent the DS9 producers from sometimes shuffling episodes. For example, the episode I just watched "Shadowplay" could have aired *anytime* during season 2, even though it references the Dominion. Ditto "Rules of Acquisition" or "Armageddon Game" or.... et cetera.

    Off the top of my head, I'd estimate ~50% of DS9 episodes were "stand-alone" and could be re-ordered if the filming schedule became tight.
    Last edited by RCmodeler; 07-13-2004, 10:09 AM.

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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    <<The rest of the time, DS9 was kept flexible with lots of stand-alones that could be randomly shuffled as needed.>>

    Incorrect. Almost every episode had continuity -- perhaps even one line -- referring to the war or some other episode.

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  • RCmodeler
    replied
    Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
    <<A B5-style novel-for-TV format would not have worked for TNG, because the production was too chaotic. - Troy>>

    Then it SHOULD NOT have BEEN chaotic. bakana is right, you have to have a boss who knows how to get everything together and make everyone work together.

    Well then I guess the "boss" named Gene Roddenberry didn't know how. Gene routinely juggled episodes around during both the original Trek and Next Generation... constantly making changes before releasing them. That's why Gene insisted upon being able to air TNG episodes randomly.

    As for DS9, "major arc episodes" aired in three places: beginning, middle, or end of season, and they were buffered by stand-alones which could be shuffled randomly as needed. There's only two instances where order was crucial: Season 6 premiere arc, and season 7 finale arc. The rest of the time, DS9 was kept flexible with lots of stand-alones that could be randomly shuffled as needed.

    So far, Enterprise is the only Trek series where every episode is dependent upon the last and therefore MUST be aired in proper order.



    Anyway back to the main point:

    Gene Roddenberry would have rejected the continuing story idea. From his point-of-view, the TNG show needed to film randomly and air randomly. We can dream about a TNG with a Borg-war arc, but it would have never passed Gene's desk.

    So I'll just go watch Stargate's war arc instead.

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  • Chakoteya
    replied
    Not only was TNG episodic for syndication, but the Borg were originally going to be those CGI insects, not the rubber suit humanoids we know and love. But the suits decided against. Things changed.

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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    <<A B5-style novel-for-TV format would not have worked for TNG, because the production was too chaotic.>>

    Then it SHOULD NOT have BEEN chaotic. bakana is right, you have to have a boss who knows how to get everything together and make everyone work together.

    And I might point out that if DS9 did it, TNG could have done it. They just didn't do it because the studio or someone told them a syndicated serial wouldn't work.

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  • bakana
    replied
    How episodes were written was very different from how they were filmed and produced. *For that reason*, Gene Roddenberry & the other producers required the episodes to be "self-contained" to air in any random order.

    A B5-style novel-for-TV format would not have worked for TNG, because the production was too chaotic.
    Actually tha's how B-5 was filmed, too. The only real difference was that JMS Knew what he was doing.

    He wrote (or assigned) the episodes knowing what order they would Appear. Filming, OTOH, was done with Cost & Convenience in mind. If a set would be used in, say 3 different episodes, they filmed as many of the scenes as they could on that set before moving stuff over to the Next set.

    If an Actor was in several scenes, they did their best to get All the scenes filmed the same day.

    Some episodes were filmed out of sequence because JMS knew that they would need longer to work on them. Episodes with a lot of CGI take longer in post production, so they got filmed earlier.

    Naturally, some of these things conflict. That's where knowing what you're doing and careful scheduling pay off.

    It's a matter of best use of Resources, not Chaos.

    Any TV studio is Organized Chaos.

    JMS knew how to put together a Crew that worked well and was happy to cooperate to keep the production times short. Which is why they came in Under Budget on almost every episode.

    Rumors have it that Trek Sets are Not "Happy Workplaces".

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