Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Star Trek XI, Harlan Ellison (spoilers!)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by frulad View Post
    CE- I appreciate your passion, but I think that it is possible that someone in Paramont's Trek office could have forgotten to contact Harlan over the use of the Guardian.
    The Guardian is played by a prop rather than an actor. If the process used to request approval to use a character is based not (directly) on the script but on the list of characters prepared for the Casting Call then the prop would be ignored.
    Andrew Swallow

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by colonyearth View Post
      Hello...people...it's got all of the original characters. All of them. That means it's at least near the time Kirk takes over the Enterprise. Dude at IESB doesn't even know Trek that well. Puleeeeze! This is so fake.
      Alternatively we had no trouble believing that a studio would discard both logic and canon without a second thought. This would not be Hollywood's first offence.

      Near the time Kirk takes over the Enterprise - sounds like the pilot for a remake or extension of the original series with new actors.
      Andrew Swallow

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by vakie View Post
        Hey, hey, cool down bro. What's with all the hostility? Sounds like someone here killed your cat. We're just talking all hypothetical and stuff.
        No vakie, no one killed the cat. I just grow weary of rumor stated as fact.



        Originally posted by vakie View Post
        Who said it was an exec, or over dinner? The IESB story never specified who their two, unrelated, previously reliable sources were. Are you saying it's impossible for a movie's plot, or story elements to leak while it's in production? That's just not true, it's happened countless of times. There's just too many people working on it, and despite non-disclosure agreements, who can sue them if they don't know who it was?
        The original "leak" of this story was on AICN where it was stated it was leaked by an exec over dinner.

        Originally posted by vakie View Post
        Yes, that's what happens when you're stupid enough to use your own name.
        Perhaps, but that's not my point. This film is more along the lines of Indy 4 with much bigger names attached as in the days of old in Trek. Doesn't matter whether someone uses their name or not on films like Indy4 and this new Trek, the studio will find them and sue when clear non-disclosure agreements have been signed. My point is that Paramount, et al, are taking much larger risks with this film than ever before. Such a major plot leak before the film even really starts shooting would be causing a major stink especially in the trades which I read and non of them have mentioned it, therefore it is somewhat safe to say that this "plot" is someone's active imagination. Think to Indy 4 and Transformers, etc, to find real efforts on major high-risk blockbuster films to keep stories from leaking. Does it always work? No...look at Indy, but also look at the stink caused about Indy. No, I'm not saying this doesn't have some element of truth to it perhaps, but if it were completely true, Paramount would be yelling foul and they ain't. This screams of false leaks to get buzz going. What bugs me is when people, not necessarily you or anyone here per se takes it as fact.

        Originally posted by vakie View Post
        No one ever said this is guaranteed to be 100% true. It's just rumors for now. We're just musing on WHAT IF?
        My point exactly. What bugs me is when sites state rumor as fact in their articles, such as when IGN continually states Nero as a Romulan as though it were clear and proven...it ain't. When anyone, studio, writer, director...anyone takes the risk that Paramount and everyone involved is taking with Trek right now it is a given fact that bad rumor or poor rumored stories can ruin a film before it ever hits theatres. Major risk ruined before anyone even sees the film due to rumor. The internet has a great deal of power these days to harm films before they're seen. I don't have a problem with rumors...hell...speculation can be fun! I seem to recall all of us having a lot of wild times in speculation on TMoS. What bugs me (call it a pet-peeve) is when sites state it as fact. If IGN were to always state something like: "The rumored to be Romulan villian, Nero" then I wouldn't mind so much.

        Perhaps it's also just a point I, personally, have reached lately in regards to the gullibility of the masses. It seems on all subjects that no one wants to think for themselves, believe what they're told and blindly follow. But that's a whole different thread.

        Andrew, the Gaurdian is more character than that and it was voiced by an actor. Such a major set piece in Trek lore carries a great deal of weight.

        Frulad said: CE- I appreciate your passion, but I think that it is possible that someone in Paramont's Trek office could have forgotten to contact Harlan over the use of the Guardian. It slipped through the entire approval process for one of the novels last year and Harlan raised a stink then. Granted, it shouldn't have happened again so soon, but there is a precedant. Also, they may feel that they do own the IP of the Guardian and don't need to get Harlan's approval.
        Yes, but as JMS would say them's apples and oranges. A publisher is a far different beast than a major high budget feature film. They rarely make such mistakes when dealing with such a high amount of $$$ and risk. That was my point...Paramount wouldn't miss this I don't think. Not that it can't happen...but it just doesn't make sense given this particular situation. And given that so many people have taken this "rumor" as fact it shocks me to think that Harlan wouldn't consider the supposed source himself before acting out. But then, Harlan is known for his sometime loud voice.

        I Love Lyta stated: Tehe, normaly I would say that's what you get when you piss off a Trek fanboy by stating that his religion's leaders (paramount) are doing something wrong, I guess...

        Suffice to say that not only plotlines but whole copies of other movies (e.g. LotR) which were for made for academy review purposes only have leaked in the past.
        I will let this one go since obviously I've been away for a while and you don't really know me. Else you would know I am neither a fanboy nor do fans actually think of Paramount as some religious leaders. I am an indie filmmaker and I do know something of how the system works. And I'm not pissed about anything but sites using rumor as fact...that's it. And Paramount is far from anything perfect...I'm not stupid...I was one of the first calling for B&B's termination from all things Trek years before anyone else did. I am...a lifelong fan...but never any fanboy...on anything.

        Oh and copies of other movies? Yeah after they were finished. This only just started filming...so there would be no Academy Review copies of anything floating around...again...my point.

        Alternatively we had no trouble believing that a studio would discard both logic and canon without a second thought. This would not be Hollywood's first offence.

        Near the time Kirk takes over the Enterprise - sounds like the pilot for a remake or extension of the original series with new actors.
        Depends on to what are you referring? Canon and logic went out the window frequently under B&B...they're long gone (thank the Universe!). No one has ever stated anything in regards to the new film about disregarding canon...in fact Orci and Kurtzman have repeatedly stated they worked hard to follow canon. However had it been a true and total reboot like JMS suggested doing then canon wouldn't have meant much. As for the time the film is set in...well, it's clear it's going to cover some range of time since we know that Kirk's father is too young of an actor to be the adult Kirk's daddy and the release about Winona Ryder stated she was playing a very young Spock's mother. This tells me the film will have a much broader canvas than anyone realizes. Something Trek has needed for a very long time...a larger than life...feature film...epic feel applied to it. I say go JJ!!


        Thanks Andrew, BTW, I figured that out about posting...just was in a hurry last night...that'll teach me to be in such a hurry since I ended up taking longer because I had to basically re-write everything. LOL.

        Oh and Andrew....how's Sarah Jane going?! Wish I could see it!

        Yes…CE of the very lengthy posts is still around.
        Last edited by colonyearth; 11-19-2007, 03:40 PM.
        Anthony Flessas
        Writer/Producer/Director,
        SP Pictures


        I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

        Comment


        • #19
          <waves> Hi, CE! Good to see you around again!

          Jan
          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by colonyearth View Post
            The original "leak" of this story was on AICN where it was stated it was leaked by an exec over dinner.
            These latest details, about Guardian of Forever, which I hadn't read anywhere else, originated from the IESB story. AICN were only quoting them. There was an earlier story on AICN back in August which seems to be hinting at the same plot (time travel, creating an alternate timeline): http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33832

            Okay, first thing that surprised me: I think Leonard Nimoy is sort of the star of the movie. I think a lot of this movie is about Spock. Nimoy-aged Spock, mind you.

            How?

            Okay... you know the scene in BACK TO THE FUTURE 2? Where Doc Brown explains alternate timelines? Well, this is sort of... ummm... TREK TO THE FUTURE, I guess you would call it...

            Picture an incident that throws a group of Romulans back in time. Picture that group of Romulans figuring out where they are in the timeline, then deciding to take advantage of the accident to kill someoneÆs father, to erase them from the timeline before they exist, thereby changing all of the TREK universe as a result. Who would you erase? Whose erasure would leave the biggest hole in the TREK universe is the question you should be asking.

            Who else, of course, but James T. Kirk?

            If Spock were in a position to change that incident back, and then in a position to guard that timeline and make sure things happen the way theyÆre supposed to, it creates...

            ... well, what does it create? Because evidently the plan is to use this second timeline as a way of rebooting without erasing or ignoring canon. These new voyages of the ENTERPRISE, theyÆre taking place in whatever timeline starts with this story. Maybe this timeline features dramatic differences. Like... say... if Vulcan were to be blown up. If the Vulcans in the series were suddenly the last of their kind, alone in the universe, it would change who they are and maybe even redefine their strict rejection of emotion in favor of logic.

            You can introduce these Universe2 versions of classic TREK events and characters, and you can play with the audienceÆs expectation. Things have changed. Some things play out the way you expectà some donÆt. ItÆs basically the same solution Marvel Comics has in terms of publishing, the way they use their ULTIMATES line to reboot continuity.
            In the talkback of that article Moriarty does say:

            ... if I'd read it, I would have been clear about that, and it would have been more of a script review. I haven't, though. I just had dinner with some friends tonight, and one of them, let's say, has a very nice office on Melrose. I'll say no more.
            He didn't say it was an exec or what that friend does in the business.
            Last edited by vakie; 11-19-2007, 06:42 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Jan View Post
              <waves> Hi, CE! Good to see you around again!

              Jan
              Yah dude. Welcome back. Hang around as long as you can.
              Radhil Trebors
              Persona Under Construction

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by colonyearth View Post
                Andrew, the Gaurdian is more character than that and it was voiced by an actor. Such a major set piece in Trek lore carries a great deal of weight.
                Possibly an alternative form of time tunnel has been devised.

                {snip}
                Oh and Andrew....how's Sarah Jane going?! Wish I could see it!
                Sarah Jane is playing the Doctor Who role. I catch the occasional episodes. It is definitely aimed at young children. The plots are good.

                In the UK the pilot episode has come out on DVD. If you DVD player, or more likely your computer, can play Region 2 DVDs you can import it.
                http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sarah-Jane-A...WJA/ref=sr_1_1
                Andrew Swallow

                Comment


                • #23
                  I will let this one go since obviously I've been away for a while and you don't really know me. Else you would know I am neither a fanboy nor do fans actually think of Paramount as some religious leaders.
                  CE, mind the word usually in my initial reply. Granted, I don't know much about you but from former posts I was pretty damn sure you are NOT someone who would post such things just out of hurt fandom.
                  Sorry, if that little detail slipped by your attention.
                  What's up Drakh?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wow, what a rumor! The rumor sounds a lot more like a non-canon Star Trek book by William Shatner (except if he did it..it would be old Kirk in the TNG future where he "survived" going back in time and saving the day). I'll have a little more faith in JJ Abrams than to do something this bad. I mean come on! Felicity was awesome.

                    If it is true though, Harlan is absolutely right. That grumpy old man.
                    Flying Sparks Web Comic - A Hero and Villain In Love. Updates on Wednesdays
                    True Believer Reviews: Comic Reviews and Interviews on Wednesdays and Fridays - Or Your Money Back!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by I love Lyta View Post
                      CE, mind the word usually in my initial reply. Granted, I don't know much about you but from former posts I was pretty damn sure you are NOT someone who would post such things just out of hurt fandom.
                      Sorry, if that little detail slipped by your attention.
                      All's well and it's cool. I was having a very bad day.

                      I'm not really bothered by anyone here, it's just here is where I could vent about the folks "out there." I know my fellow B5 followers here are smarter than the average bear...or person...or entity...or...well...you get the idea.

                      My real point, and vakie this is in regards to that article and all subsequent ones, is that most of these rumored stories are just that...rumors. Some of them are actually planted by studio personel in order to get early buzz and chatter started. No better way to get internet chatter going than to leak a bad plotline.

                      I'm not saying that the one rumored is bad...well...it's not good either. I would hope that Orci, Kurtzman and Abrams all have better imaginations than that. Not to mention I do have faith in Nimoy's opinion that the script is amazing (enough to pull him out of an 18 year retirement). I also note that this "storyline" doesn't really gel with what the writers themselves have said about the story; i.e. the shipbased adventure they say it is doesn't fully match up with the leaked story.

                      Also, Nero and Ayel are not what I would call Romulan names. Also, this has already been done, it was called First Contact (which sucked). Also, time travel is over done in Trek already. Now it may incorporate some since after all old Spock is in it in some capacity. However, according to the original AICN article the film will revolve around both Spocks. Yet Nimoy stated at a Con that his old Spock was more than a cameo but was actually only in a small portion of the film. Also, as was pointed out in the original thread at AICN on the original article, this would always be a "vaguely true" universe. Any alternate universe storylines would only be pale reflections of the other, older, "real" universe stories. Unless you state that through what happens in the film the other "real" universe is wiped out...gone...all Trek we've had so far never happened and never will and the new Trek is the real universe. Of course, that could and probably would enrage the fans (those real fanboys you're talking about Lyta). And it would make everything that was done so far in vain (though "real" or not most of it was done in vain...or vanity...Berman's to be precise...ick!)

                      Although, I'd rather the latter than the former where the new Trek is just some off-shoot of the original's timeline. Personally, I think they should've just rebooted it entirely like JMS suggested. Blank slate, re-envisionment, the whole works!

                      However, given the cast they've managed to pull in and the early very high praise for the script and how well I think Orci and Kurtzman handled Transformers...my hopes are very high for this. Paramount, as I've stated many times, is putting a lot into this Trek. Highest budget ever, big risk in recasting everyone and attempting to engage (no pun intended) new fans and grow the base. They're turning Trek into a blockbuster franchise...and that's ballsy! I don't think anyone will or plans to let any fan down.

                      Suffice it to say, while this rumored plot might have some tiny morsels of truth dotted here and there, it is my very considered and common sense opinion that it's mostly crap and rumor.

                      I really do just wish sites like AICN, IGN, etc. would quit stating elements from the rumor as fact. That's just bad form all around!

                      CE

                      (Glad to be back!)
                      Last edited by colonyearth; 11-20-2007, 05:43 PM.
                      Anthony Flessas
                      Writer/Producer/Director,
                      SP Pictures


                      I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by SmileOfTheShadow View Post
                        The rumor sounds a lot more like a non-canon Star Trek book by William Shatner ...
                        I guess he is fine enough doing Boston Legal.
                        What's up Drakh?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by colonyearth View Post
                          ...my hopes are very high for this.
                          I see you haven't learned anything from your recent Trek experiences ...

                          The Optimist: The glass is half full
                          The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
                          The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Garibaldi's Hair View Post
                            I see you haven't learned anything from your recent Trek experiences ...

                            Um..you do realize that those in charge of the very poor recent Trek experiences are long gone and never allowed to touch anything Trek again...right? That this is a whole new creative group behind Trek and that Paramount is seriously putting large cash and some of the Hollywood elite behind reviving their franchises? Right? You knew this...right?

                            I do not equate B&B Trek to JJ Trek. Apples and grapefruits.

                            CE
                            Anthony Flessas
                            Writer/Producer/Director,
                            SP Pictures


                            I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by colonyearth View Post
                              Um..you do realize that those in charge of the very poor recent Trek experiences are long gone and never allowed to touch anything Trek again...right? That this is a whole new creative group behind Trek and that Paramount is seriously putting large cash and some of the Hollywood elite behind reviving their franchises? Right? You knew this...right?

                              I do not equate B&B Trek to JJ Trek. Apples and grapefruits.

                              CE
                              I thought they already found a pretty good creative team during season 4 of Enterprise, namely Manny Coto and Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. They should've just handed the franchise over to them...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by vakie View Post
                                I thought they already found a pretty good creative team during season 4 of Enterprise, namely Manny Coto and Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. They should've just handed the franchise over to them...
                                Manny was show-runner and he had brought on the Reeves-Stevens, but B&B were still running the big show officially. Though there is evidence that they were already (finally in my book) loosing their power. Unfortunately, too late and not enough to stop them from f*#king up the series finale! At least Braga recently publicly appologized for that one and openly stated Cotto had the right tack and had they gone his way from the beginning, Enterprise would probably still be running.

                                It's a price I'm personally willing to pay if it put the final nails B&B's respective coffins.

                                CE
                                Anthony Flessas
                                Writer/Producer/Director,
                                SP Pictures


                                I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X