Writers Strike

[Jan]

There are always individual negotiations, LiM, but if you think that each writer negitiating his/her own residuals would save consumers money, you'd be *way* off base. Can you imagine how much it would cost to track that individually instead of using formulas as they do now? Just the data entry cost would be prohibitive, much less if there were multiple writing credits (for an example of a nightmare, check out some of the Trek episodes that have four, five or even six writing credits). Nothing would ever get written if every script had to have that kind of negotiation and the only ones likely to get more money would be the agents.

Every contract is individually negotiated as to initial payment (as I understand it) and the residual formulas are based on either that payment or the amount the studio gets paid for the re-use of the show. The point is that the studio makes money every time they use the writer's work so the writer should get a portion of that.

Look at it this way-every single time a song is played on the radio or on TV or in an elevator or anywhere, the artist gets paid for that play. If a new market were to open up for songs, that would still apply.

Why should it be any different for writers? New distribution markets have opened up and the studios are *already* making more money but the writers don't get anything. Why should there be a backlash against the writers when it's the studios who are being greedy?

Also, since it's extremely unlikely that any new formulas will be retroactive, it'll be future scripts that might cost more--if the studios choose to continue to gouge the consumer.

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

I understand the arguments here, folks. But don't expect me to support writers who will screw us over...first, by networks showing re-runs and by studios cranking up the price of DVD sets. If they have to work two jobs to survive, then, well, all I have to say is that I didn't learn to play the violin in band. I have worked two jobs. It sucks, but I did what I had to do.

I think this means that the WGA needs to be disbanded and new, individual, negotiations begin.

[WorkerCaste]

I completely agree with Jan's interpretation of the teacher remark. Teacher's are just so universally thought of as underpaid, that they make a good yardstick for hard to survive on pay. By the same token, though, in a capitalsistic system, they probably should be paid more since lots more money is being made on their efforts. It's the same sort of argument that's applied to athletes, entertainers, etc.

[Lunan]

What does this have to do with the topic?

Jan

exactly what i was thinking

[Jan]

We had to run an ambulance chaser out of here the other day. <snip>.

What does this have to do with the topic?

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

We had to run an ambulance chaser out of here the other day. Fucker had a tripod and a big news-style camera set up before we could even make it to his location.

[Karachi Vyce]

Just to play devil's advocate here is Joe suggesting that writers be paid more than teachers?

Speaking as someone who works on a constant basis with public school teachers and administration, writers should absolutely be paid more. Because writers can't possibly be any more incompetent than teachers are.

[Jan]

Just to play devil's advocate here is Joe suggesting that writers be paid more than teachers?

I didn't see anything to indicate one way or another in that sentence. I think he was using simply as a comparison since it's often said that teachers aren't paid well.

Why the question? There'd be no way to establish comparable pay scales even if he were saying that. Teachers work fairly set schedules and are paid for their time and writers are paid by the piece.

Jan

[Lunan]

Just to play devil's advocate here is Joe suggesting that writers be paid more than teachers?

i think the argument is that in lala land (also known as california) cost of living is fairly extreme, living in NY myself i know that a 45k means that you live from pay check t paycheck and are unable to aford anything that might be called luxuery items (gas for a car, ipod, eating at places other then bk or taco bell) and in sunny cali to use the catch phrase it is just as expensive if not more so. (also teachers in NY or cali make around 60k just on the "cost of living" diffrences) personally i think good teachers should earn 100k plus, good teachers deserve it. on the otherhand good writers who provide me with good entertainment should also make a good living as they are providing me with a servie i find worthwhile, and while i am not familar with the costs of the studios i know they HAVE to making a profit or they would be out of business, so i have no conflict with that profit being made avalible to those who provide me with the service i pay for (and i DO buy dvds, i do download some things from itunes, and i do watch tv sometimes)

of course on the otherhand it has been said so often that the profit that studios make is very tiny (said so often i almost belive it) but how that profit is distributed i couldn't guess other then to say with some asperity that i'm sure a small group makes the most from it, and i see no harm in taking a few precentage points from those who earn 6 or 7 figures a year to spread around a little better

[AaronB]

The same majority of WGA members earn less than 45K per year, less than many grade school teachers.

Just to play devil's advocate here is Joe suggesting that writers be paid more than teachers?

[Jan]

JMS just posted some data:

Title: Re: iTunes question for JMS
Author: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: 16 May 2007 16:54:43 -0700
Message-ID: <[email protected] com>


On May 11, 5:23 pm, "John W. Kennedy" <[email protected]global.net> wrote:
> swp wrote:

> The technical term for that is "pricing yourself out of the market". No
> one in 1992-8 could have pulled such a deal off.
>
> That's why the WGA exists, and that's why it looks like a strike.
>
> └ la lanterne touts les "suits"!
>

Here's the cored of it, and what people looking in need to
understand.

Basic stats:

Fifty percent, half the Writers Guild, is unemployed, at any given
time.

The majority of WGA members sell maybe one or two TV scripts per year.

The same majority of WGA members earn less than 45K per year, less
than many grade school teachers.

Most WGA members have to work daytme jobs to supplement their writing
work.

And the percentage of WGA members who earn six figures and up accounts
for less than 1% of all WGA members.

Those are not rosy stats.

Leaving out the aspect of deferred compensation...residuals exist to
help writers stay alive and available between assignments. If you
only make one or two sales in a year, the residuals for what you sold
last year will help pay this year's bills and allow you to keep
writing. Take that away, and the bulk of the writers working in TV
would have to drop out of the business.

Writers, directors and actors have, until recently, been able to get
residuals on the various venues through which their shows are seen
(broadcast and cable TV, overseas exhibitions and theatrical
distribution). But virtually everybody in that group gets nothing out
of the distribution means that were not covered by those long-ago
contracts (the last real negotiation was in 1988). DVDs, Xbox,
Itunes, bittorrent, most satellite systems, Joost and other internet
distribution systems do not pay anything to anyone in those three
categories. In theory they should get something, the foundation is
there in the old contrats, but the formula used to determine residuals
based on VHS sales can be adjusted infinitely to ensure nobody gets
anything.

We're not talking here luxurious terms for luxurious circumstances;
we're talking about the basic necessities of life that will help
writers, especially newer, retired or struggling writers, keep their
homes and pay their bills. Bread and butter issues. If you're a
writer making six figures plus in sales per year, residuals aren't
that big a deal...it's everybody else, everybody who's just making
ends meet, who live or die depending on the small residuals check that
comes in from time to time, helping out when bills come.

Just so everyone's clear on the concept.

jms

[WorkerCaste]

I followed Jan's link, then did a search for "faq residuals". This got me to a FAQ including a section on residuals and under the first "What are residuals" there was a link to a document with more details. I didn't hang on to the URL so I can't post the link without retracing my steps. I'll leave that as an excercise for the audience. One thing that did strike me, though. I had always heard them talked about as deferred compensation (not just JMS) but in this document it sounded more like replacement compensation. The original idea was to compensate writer's for a decline in work created when the networks reused old material. Of course, that was when there really were only the big networks. Things have changed. I also thought the rather involved sections on the finances and formulas were interesting. I didn't read in detail, but given the numbers they were using, it doesn't look like we'll be seeing a crop of very rich writers anytime soon.

[Night Marshal]

while I don't know much about this issue other than what I've read I would suggest an ap story that ran in the last few days

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070511/hollywood_labor.html?.v=1

Honestly you get the impression for this story that the writer have a up hill battle because even in the tv/movie companies make no money there honestly not going to be hurting. Granted its better for everyone to if they do make money but its hard to tell at this point how hard line companies and the union will be honestly While there is big talk from the union most of its member makes next to nothing can can't afford a long strike so in the end I'm guessing they aren't going to get much more than they have now.

EDIT: darn jan beat me to the punch, one thought on this as well I think we are deceiving ourself when we talk about fair compensation. This is about getting paid plan and simple writers want more money, do they deserver more most likely. But can't fault companies for wanting to make money because its that drive to make money that lets people make a living writing in the first place.

EDIT 2: The WGA website is very shall we say member happy you really can't get any good information unless you are a member of the union.

[KoshN]

And these days they don't have to watch re-runs as a network can throw together another lame reality show.

And I'll watch reality shows (Ack! <Ptui!>) when there's a few feet of snow in Hell. I'll take reruns over a reality show anyday.

[Jan]

can someone tell me how the residuals work at this moment, and what the writers want from the negotiations?

I don't know in any real detail. You can probably find information at http://www.wga.org/

do they get zero all around, do they get some from some thngs and not others (say from vhs but not dvd)
i would swear they got some from syndication. do tell please

I gather that at the moment they get residuals from some things but not all. There may also be situations where there were concessions made while a market was emerging and now that it's established, those concessions need to be renegotiated. Again, I don't know in any detail.

Jan