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  • #16
    Originally posted by Lunan View Post
    can someone tell me how the residuals work at this moment, and what the writers want from the negotiations?

    do they get zero all around, do they get some from some thngs and not others (say from vhs but not dvd)
    i would swear they got some from syndication. do tell please
    There are undoubtedly better informed people than me on this forum, but my understanding is this: residuals are negitiated, defferred compensation. They defer since the studios won't see some of the profit for a long time, so they ask the creative people to wait until more profit comes in. Originally this was pretty much just reselling the show for other TV venues. Essentially syndication for broadcast by local stations during the times when they didn't get original programming from the networks. The 6PM to 8PM slot mostly in the US. That aspect was pretty well hashed out, locked down, etc. because everyone knew about it. Then came the secondary networks, and the guilds gave them a break on residuals because the prices were lower so there was less profit. Then came cable and cable channels. Again, breaks were given on fees and residuals in order to help the cable stations get started. Then came rental video, home video, direct to DVD, games, ring tones, sales of downloads, etc. and the original agreements haven't been updated to account for all these other sources of profit for the studios.

    At any rate, that's my limited understanding.
    "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Lunan View Post
      can someone tell me how the residuals work at this moment, and what the writers want from the negotiations?
      I don't know in any real detail. You can probably find information at http://www.wga.org/

      do they get zero all around, do they get some from some thngs and not others (say from vhs but not dvd)
      i would swear they got some from syndication. do tell please
      I gather that at the moment they get residuals from some things but not all. There may also be situations where there were concessions made while a market was emerging and now that it's established, those concessions need to be renegotiated. Again, I don't know in any detail.

      Jan
      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by LessonInMachismo View Post
        And these days they don't have to watch re-runs as a network can throw together another lame reality show.
        And I'll watch reality shows (Ack! <Ptui!>) when there's a few feet of snow in Hell. I'll take reruns over a reality show anyday.
        Last edited by KoshN; 05-16-2007, 08:55 AM.
        Mac Breck (KoshN)
        ------------------
        Warner Brothers is Lucy.
        JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
        Babylon 5 is the football.

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        • #19
          while I don't know much about this issue other than what I've read I would suggest an ap story that ran in the last few days

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          Honestly you get the impression for this story that the writer have a up hill battle because even in the tv/movie companies make no money there honestly not going to be hurting. Granted its better for everyone to if they do make money but its hard to tell at this point how hard line companies and the union will be honestly While there is big talk from the union most of its member makes next to nothing can can't afford a long strike so in the end I'm guessing they aren't going to get much more than they have now.

          EDIT: darn jan beat me to the punch, one thought on this as well I think we are deceiving ourself when we talk about fair compensation. This is about getting paid plan and simple writers want more money, do they deserver more most likely. But can't fault companies for wanting to make money because its that drive to make money that lets people make a living writing in the first place.

          EDIT 2: The WGA website is very shall we say member happy you really can't get any good information unless you are a member of the union.
          Last edited by Night Marshal; 05-16-2007, 08:56 AM.
          "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand - strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOW - What a RIDE!"

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          • #20
            I followed Jan's link, then did a search for "faq residuals". This got me to a FAQ including a section on residuals and under the first "What are residuals" there was a link to a document with more details. I didn't hang on to the URL so I can't post the link without retracing my steps. I'll leave that as an excercise for the audience. One thing that did strike me, though. I had always heard them talked about as deferred compensation (not just JMS) but in this document it sounded more like replacement compensation. The original idea was to compensate writer's for a decline in work created when the networks reused old material. Of course, that was when there really were only the big networks. Things have changed. I also thought the rather involved sections on the finances and formulas were interesting. I didn't read in detail, but given the numbers they were using, it doesn't look like we'll be seeing a crop of very rich writers anytime soon.
            "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

            Comment


            • #21
              JMS just posted some data:

              Title: Re: iTunes question for JMS
              Author: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
              Date: 16 May 2007 16:54:43 -0700
              Message-ID: <[email protected] com>


              On May 11, 5:23 pm, "John W. Kennedy" <[email protected]> wrote:
              > swp wrote:

              > The technical term for that is "pricing yourself out of the market". No
              > one in 1992-8 could have pulled such a deal off.
              >
              > That's why the WGA exists, and that's why it looks like a strike.
              >
              > └ la lanterne touts les "suits"!
              >

              Here's the cored of it, and what people looking in need to
              understand.

              Basic stats:

              Fifty percent, half the Writers Guild, is unemployed, at any given
              time.

              The majority of WGA members sell maybe one or two TV scripts per year.

              The same majority of WGA members earn less than 45K per year, less
              than many grade school teachers.

              Most WGA members have to work daytme jobs to supplement their writing
              work.

              And the percentage of WGA members who earn six figures and up accounts
              for less than 1% of all WGA members.

              Those are not rosy stats.

              Leaving out the aspect of deferred compensation...residuals exist to
              help writers stay alive and available between assignments. If you
              only make one or two sales in a year, the residuals for what you sold
              last year will help pay this year's bills and allow you to keep
              writing. Take that away, and the bulk of the writers working in TV
              would have to drop out of the business.

              Writers, directors and actors have, until recently, been able to get
              residuals on the various venues through which their shows are seen
              (broadcast and cable TV, overseas exhibitions and theatrical
              distribution). But virtually everybody in that group gets nothing out
              of the distribution means that were not covered by those long-ago
              contracts (the last real negotiation was in 1988). DVDs, Xbox,
              Itunes, bittorrent, most satellite systems, Joost and other internet
              distribution systems do not pay anything to anyone in those three
              categories. In theory they should get something, the foundation is
              there in the old contrats, but the formula used to determine residuals
              based on VHS sales can be adjusted infinitely to ensure nobody gets
              anything.

              We're not talking here luxurious terms for luxurious circumstances;
              we're talking about the basic necessities of life that will help
              writers, especially newer, retired or struggling writers, keep their
              homes and pay their bills. Bread and butter issues. If you're a
              writer making six figures plus in sales per year, residuals aren't
              that big a deal...it's everybody else, everybody who's just making
              ends meet, who live or die depending on the small residuals check that
              comes in from time to time, helping out when bills come.

              Just so everyone's clear on the concept.

              jms
              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by JMS
                The same majority of WGA members earn less than 45K per year, less than many grade school teachers.
                Just to play devil's advocate here is Joe suggesting that writers be paid more than teachers?
                ---
                Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
                www.benedictfamily.org/podcast

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by thebaron View Post
                  Just to play devil's advocate here is Joe suggesting that writers be paid more than teachers?
                  i think the argument is that in lala land (also known as california) cost of living is fairly extreme, living in NY myself i know that a 45k means that you live from pay check t paycheck and are unable to aford anything that might be called luxuery items (gas for a car, ipod, eating at places other then bk or taco bell) and in sunny cali to use the catch phrase it is just as expensive if not more so. (also teachers in NY or cali make around 60k just on the "cost of living" diffrences) personally i think good teachers should earn 100k plus, good teachers deserve it. on the otherhand good writers who provide me with good entertainment should also make a good living as they are providing me with a servie i find worthwhile, and while i am not familar with the costs of the studios i know they HAVE to making a profit or they would be out of business, so i have no conflict with that profit being made avalible to those who provide me with the service i pay for (and i DO buy dvds, i do download some things from itunes, and i do watch tv sometimes)

                  of course on the otherhand it has been said so often that the profit that studios make is very tiny (said so often i almost belive it) but how that profit is distributed i couldn't guess other then to say with some asperity that i'm sure a small group makes the most from it, and i see no harm in taking a few precentage points from those who earn 6 or 7 figures a year to spread around a little better

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                  • #24
                    Just to play devil's advocate here is Joe suggesting that writers be paid more than teachers?
                    I didn't see anything to indicate one way or another in that sentence. I think he was using simply as a comparison since it's often said that teachers aren't paid well.

                    Why the question? There'd be no way to establish comparable pay scales even if he were saying that. Teachers work fairly set schedules and are paid for their time and writers are paid by the piece.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by thebaron View Post
                      Just to play devil's advocate here is Joe suggesting that writers be paid more than teachers?
                      Speaking as someone who works on a constant basis with public school teachers and administration, writers should absolutely be paid more. Because writers can't possibly be any more incompetent than teachers are.
                      "I don't find myself in the same luxury as you. You grew up in freedom, and you can spit on freedom, because you don't know what it is not to have freedom." ---Ayaan Hirsi Ali

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                      • #26
                        We had to run an ambulance chaser out of here the other day. Fucker had a tripod and a big news-style camera set up before we could even make it to his location.
                        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by LessonInMachismo View Post
                          We had to run an ambulance chaser out of here the other day. <snip>.
                          What does this have to do with the topic?

                          Jan
                          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jan View Post
                            What does this have to do with the topic?

                            Jan
                            exactly what i was thinking

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                            • #29
                              I completely agree with Jan's interpretation of the teacher remark. Teacher's are just so universally thought of as underpaid, that they make a good yardstick for hard to survive on pay. By the same token, though, in a capitalsistic system, they probably should be paid more since lots more money is being made on their efforts. It's the same sort of argument that's applied to athletes, entertainers, etc.
                              "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I understand the arguments here, folks. But don't expect me to support writers who will screw us over...first, by networks showing re-runs and by studios cranking up the price of DVD sets. If they have to work two jobs to survive, then, well, all I have to say is that I didn't learn to play the violin in band. I have worked two jobs. It sucks, but I did what I had to do.

                                I think this means that the WGA needs to be disbanded and new, individual, negotiations begin.
                                Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                                Comment

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