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  • Amusing B5 Comment

    This is only sort of off-topic, but I figured it probably belongs here anyway. In a Slashdot story about the new Star Trek movie scheduled to come out next year, someone posted this comment:

    What about a DS9 movie?

    Well, since Babylon 5 is over, what storyline would they have to steal? I suppose the writers at Paramount could just ask JMS to please write a few more episodes, so they'd have something to copy from, but I hear he's pretty busy these days with other projects...
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=224474&cid=18179478

  • #2
    Originally posted by SLerman View Post
    This is only sort of off-topic, but I figured it probably belongs here anyway. In a Slashdot story about the new Star Trek movie scheduled to come out next year, someone posted this comment:



    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=224474&cid=18179478
    It is a good line. But to be honest after a while, DS9 did go off in their own direction. I liked both shows.
    ---
    Co-host of The Second Time Around podcast
    www.benedictfamily.org/podcast

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    • #3
      Thankfully, a lot of the Trek vs B5 feeling has calmed down with the passage of time. There's quite a busy site called Trek-BBS that has a bunch of DS9 folks watching B5 and really getting into it.

      I've heard good things about the later seasons of DS9 and mean to watch them sometime. But I've got so many things on my must-watch list!

      Jan
      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

      Comment


      • #4
        I haven't seen much of the later seasons of DS9, but from what I've seen, it does get a lot better. Most of the rest of that thread talks about how bad Star Trek has been in the past ~15 years. No matter how accurate the statement is, I thought it was a pretty good joke.

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        • #5
          While I see B5 and DS9 to have similarities, they both have their differences too. This is a list that I drew up thinking about the similarities after watching a DS9 two-parter a couple years back. Note, I'm not saying any of these similarities are intentional, but it is kinda fun to look at them collected together in a list.

          • (The most obvious similarity) Set upon a space station with casinos and bars being a frequently seen location.

          • Long-distance spacel travelling through a tunnel outside the station. (Wormhole; Jump Gate)

          • Commander/Captain who's lost a wife. (Sisko; Sheridan)

          • Commander/Captain who has special religious significance to an alien race of prominent importance to the existance of the space station. (Sisko to the Bajorans; Sinclair and to a lesser extent Sheridan to the Minbari)

          • Captain's onscreen relationship with his parents is shown solely through his father.

          • Tension due to racial issues regarding one promient alien race that imprisoned another promient alien race. (Cardassians imprisoned the Bajorians; Centauri imprisoned the Narn)

          • Prominent alien race who states creating and maintaining *order* to be a primary goal. (The Founders; Vorlons)

          • Prominent alien race infiltrates and gains major influence over Earth goverment. (The Founders; Shadows)

          • A pilot episode that has a plot-point revolving around shapeshifting. (Odo being a changeling and using that ability to stop a crime; A Minbari using a changeling-net to commit crime)

          • The Captain coming to have and use an agile prototype ship for missions away from the station. (The Defiant; The White Star)

          • Captains love baseball. (Sisko; Sheridan)

          • A major alien race, who have a vested religious interest in the main character, have lived or currently live under a caste system. (Bajorans; Minbari)

          • A tiny bit of dealing with character sex-change. (Dax symbiont being in Kurzon and then Jadzia; the aborted Delenn male-to-female chrysalis change)

          • The series ends with the Captain surrounded by light in relation to his death. (Sisko with the Prophets in the Wormhole; Sheridan with Lorien)

          It wasn't as drawn out in as many episodes on DS9 (it was a two-parter on DS9) as was on B5, but there was a major plot in which:

          • The President on Earth declares martial law. (Jaresh-Inyo; Clark)

          • A human conspires to seize control of the government away from the President for himself by placing people loyal to him in possitions of power. (Admiral Leyton from Jaresh-Inyo; Clark from Santiago) Interesting to note that Leyton is played by Robert Foxworth, the man who played General Hague on Babylon 5.

          • "Strengthening Earth" is a reason given for declaration of martial law and the take-over/attempted take-over of Earth government.

          • Characters wrestle with the concept of following the chain of command and obeying orders when those orders violate their principles. (Sisko and Commander Benteen; Sheridan and his crew)

          • Characters wrestle with the concept and eventuality of having to fire on their own ships. (Commander Benteen and Worf; Sheridan and numerous others)

          Some naming similarities:

          Dukat (DS9) vs Dukhat (B5)

          Leeta (DS9) vs Lyta (B5)

          Iliana Ghemor (DS9) vs Lianna Kemmer (B5) (just say the names outloud)

          Bajoran resistance leader Shakaar. Narn resistance leader G'Kar.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm pretty damn certain that Trek stole ideas from Bab 5 for DS9.

            I'm also pretty certain that the whole Xindi plotline for Enterprise was just a heavily modified version of the Drakh earth poisoning from Crusade.

            I'm one of those people who feel that Trek has been bad for a while now. My concept is that they let the franchise die for a few years, then come back with a fresh creative team and fresh ideas.
            "I don't find myself in the same luxury as you. You grew up in freedom, and you can spit on freedom, because you don't know what it is not to have freedom." ---Ayaan Hirsi Ali

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Karachi Vyce View Post
              I'm pretty damn certain that Trek stole ideas from Bab 5 for DS9.

              I'm also pretty certain that the whole Xindi plotline for Enterprise was just a heavily modified version of the Drakh earth poisoning from Crusade.

              I'm one of those people who feel that Trek has been bad for a while now. My concept is that they let the franchise die for a few years, then come back with a fresh creative team and fresh ideas.
              i happen to agree that trek is dead at the moment. or more to the point it needs a good break
              i happen to think DS9 is the best of the treks whil eit has similarities to b5 there are enough legit diffrences.
              general trek - voyager was fluffy excitement in a similar idea like next gen. enterprise had one good season, the last one, mainly due to manny cotto

              i would love to see a trek from the klingon perspective, aboard a battle cruser perhaps but it needs at least 3 more years to rest before trying trek again. on the otherhand i REALLY want those b5 discs that are coming

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jan View Post
                I've heard good things about the later seasons of DS9 and mean to watch them sometime. But I've got so many things on my must-watch list!

                Jan
                It does get better, particularly in the seventh season, the latter half or so of which is one long arc. It's no B5 - no novel for TV - but it did become good television.
                Schlock Mercenary: comic space opera

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                • #9
                  I've been saying for a long time that Trek literally stole from B5 but I don't see it as such a grievous offense. Plagiariasm being the sincerest form of flattery and all. We all know that JMS had this stuff floating round his head while taking a shower decades ago. There's no way all of this is just coincidence but it does no good to get lost in the details. It's all done and history.
                  Trek does need a rest ... or at least new writers who can find another great series to borrow from. I liked Enterprise but I liked it because I felt that B5 was responsible for some of the character development that truly made it interesting. I actually gave a shit about the characters from Enterprise, whereas I could have cared less about the crew of Voyager or DS9. Truthfully, I didn't watch DS9 beyond it's 3rd season. It just got boring to me ... guess I should do some catching up. Voyager bothered me from the first three episodes. I felt like I watched the same show three times. I hear later seasons were better ... but I had B5 and I wasn't going back. I probably won't.
                  "If I could be a bird, I'd be a Flying Purple People Eater because then people would sing about me and I could fly down and eat them because I hate that song. " - Jack Handey

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                  • #10
                    My wife is the "Trekker" of the family, so I've watched just about all of the various Star Trek series (except Voyager) and IMO DS9 is the best of them. I liked how varied the characters were and especially enjoyed how well developed the villains (Gul Dukat and Kai Wynn sp?) were. Talk about characters that you loved to hate!

                    I can believe that a fair amount of the set-up for DS9 was "borrowed" from JMS, but as the series developed they were very different from one another. I think what lifts DS9 above the other ST series for me is that there were gray characters, not just black and white, good and evil. The last three or four seasons of DS9 are very good television.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NotSoWize View Post
                      My wife is the "Trekker" of the family, so I've watched just about all of the various Star Trek series (except Voyager) and IMO DS9 is the best of them. I liked how varied the characters were and especially enjoyed how well developed the villains (Gul Dukat and Kai Wynn sp?) were. Talk about characters that you loved to hate!

                      I can believe that a fair amount of the set-up for DS9 was "borrowed" from JMS, but as the series developed they were very different from one another. I think what lifts DS9 above the other ST series for me is that there were gray characters, not just black and white, good and evil. The last three or four seasons of DS9 are very good television.

                      I agree with you completely. DS9 is far and away my favorite of the new Trek series. However, I also thought Enterprise had some great potential but it didn't get good until the third and fourth season.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I will call out fans of either show who bash the other. They act like it was THEIR OWN creation that was "stolen." Sit down and enjoy them or not, hippies.
                        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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                        • #13
                          [Moderator Speak] Watch it with the names, LiM. Any and all names except the user's own member name.

                          Muchly thank you. [/Moderator Speak]

                          Jan
                          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Karachi Vyce View Post
                            I'm pretty damn certain that Trek stole ideas from Bab 5 for DS9.

                            I'm also pretty certain that the whole Xindi plotline for Enterprise was just a heavily modified version of the Drakh earth poisoning from Crusade.

                            I'm one of those people who feel that Trek has been bad for a while now. My concept is that they let the franchise die for a few years, then come back with a fresh creative team and fresh ideas.
                            Anyone that read Jane Killick's SEASON BY SEASON books, and that can read between the lines, would agree with this idea. Paramount had the B5 script for 9 (NINE!) months and did nothing with it. Suddenly, when WB decided to go ahead with B5...they rush out a space-station-based TREKised version of the script in the hope that the (as usual terribly underestimated) fans will not notice!

                            LAZY, LAZY, LAZY. Give TREK 10 years, then think about it, but with a totally new production team, like....people who actually care about story, drama, acting, internal consistency and a definite - book style - end.
                            http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?a...er=dgtwoodward
                            Yes, I still collect Laserdiscs!!
                            47" Phillips 1080p 46" Samsung 1080p Toshiba HD-30E (2 both Multi Region) PS3-80G 120G BR Multi-Region Maidstone MD-BR-2102 Sky-HD Freesat-HD Pioneer DVL-909 CLD-D925 CLD-2950 (AC3) CLD-D515 CLD S315 Yamaha ADP-1 Meridian 519 Pioneer 609 (DD/DTS) x 2 Speakers & subs Jammo M/S Pioneer Technics Sony Eltax Akai Aiwa

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LightStorm View Post
                              Anyone that read Jane Killick's SEASON BY SEASON books, and that can read between the lines, would agree with this idea. Paramount had the B5 script for 9 (NINE!) months and did nothing with it. Suddenly, when WB decided to go ahead with B5...they rush out a space-station-based TREKised version of the script in the hope that the (as usual terribly underestimated) fans will not notice!

                              LAZY, LAZY, LAZY. Give TREK 10 years, then think about it, but with a totally new production team, like....people who actually care about story, drama, acting, internal consistency and a definite - book style - end.
                              just make SURE rick berman has NOTHING!!!! to do with it. the hack

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