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What's WRONG with these people?!?!

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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    I used to have a lot of Arab, Pakistani and Indian Muslim friends in college and they'd all eat pork in secret. Pork is just too good.

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  • AmyG
    replied
    Originally posted by Karachi Vyce
    One of my best friends is Jewish, and he occasionally eats bacon.
    Read what I wrote. I said "Orthodox Jewish." Guaranteed, if your friend is Orthodox Jewish, he is not eating bacon. Conversely, if he is eating bacon, he is not Orthodox.

    Regarding the photos thing, and having done a little research, I think Jan is right that we may be attributing the wrong reasoning to it. It's not "Don't take my picture because you are stealing my soul"; rather, it's an endeavor to be as humble, and not driven by personal vanity, as possible. If you start taking pictures of yourself and keeping them around, you'll start to care about how you look, and that is vanity, and that is considered wrong in the eyes of their God. And that's probably interpreted differently by just about every Amish parish/region. So, some might feel it's okay to appear on television to talk to a reporter about something, if they're not then running over to their English friends' home to watch themselves on tv on the 6 o'clock news that evening. But it's definitely up to the elders of each community how to specifically interpret that.

    Generally, though, if you're traveling in Lancaster, local etiquette says that you DON'T take their pictures, except maybe a long shot of a buggy passing by.
    Last edited by AmyG; 10-05-2006, 12:27 PM.

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  • Jan
    replied
    I think there's some confusion. From everything I've read, the Amish *often* allow pictures to be taken of themselves but they don't *keep* images of themselves or each other. Plus, each Fellowship seems to have its own traditions and conventions.

    Jan

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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    So much for Amish tradition...I just watched an interview with one of the women. Unless it's only MEN who don't like their mug on film.

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  • frulad
    replied
    Originally posted by LessonInMachismo
    From what I've read, they're not as stringent as they once were. Teenagers go into town and stuff now.
    The process of Rumsprigga (sp?), where older teens are allowed to move through the English world before taking their final religous vows has long been part of the Amish tradition. Track down the recent documentary The Devil's Playground for a fascinating look at the whole process.

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  • Harrdy
    replied
    There was a very nice text by a baptist pastor in south carolina which ends with the following words:

    So, I appeal to you today. Let the Spirit of Christ guide you even if you are not a Christian. You won't go wrong if you do. Do not use the Constitution of our beloved state to marginalize a segment of our citizenry. Do not listen to the fear-mongers. They have always been among us throughout our history trying to scare us with their doomsday scenarios, trying to marginalize one segment of society and then another. And, they have always been proven wrong at the end of the day. Trust the spirit of Christ. Trust Easter. Or as my Daddy might have said, "IT'S JUST PLAIN NOT RIGHT TO TREAT FOLKS LIKE THEY DON'T COUNT."

    full text, I really liked the text: http://satyrblade.livejournal.com/96...ml?view=996394

    PeAcE

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  • WorkerCaste
    replied
    Originally posted by Karachi Vyce
    Sometimes people can be a bit TOO serious about their religion. It's kind of why we're fighting a jihad right now.
    Nothin' wrong with be serious about your religion when it only affects you. They believe in strong community, limiting distracting influences, and not worrying about what others are doing. As I understand it, they don't baptise until adulthood to make sure that the life is actually chosen by each member. It's when you believe that everyone should worship as you do and are willing to take active steps to make that happen that the trouble begins.

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  • Karachi Vyce
    replied
    Originally posted by LessonInMachismo
    Look at this: me defending journalists. Next, I will be sticking up for lawyers.
    You'd better. We're damn sure a higher form of life than a fucking JOURNALIST.

    Would you sneak some pork or shellfish into a stew if you were having Orthodox Jews over to your house for dinner, if you thought they wouldn't be able to discern that it was in there?
    One of my best friends is Jewish, and he occasionally eats bacon.

    Sometimes people can be a bit TOO serious about their religion. It's kind of why we're fighting a jihad right now.

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  • DGTWoodward
    replied
    What can I say that has not already been said?

    This kind of 'blame-someone-else' violence sickens me. I am a part of a religeous minority myself ( a Jehovah's Witness) but even we have at least some social intergration, secular work within society, cell phones, cars.

    How sad that there was no quick way to alert anybody!

    What this guy did was just plain evil.

    To blame innocent people - children, to boot - who had totally and absolutely NO chance of any self defence, well I just do not have the words.

    'Religious differences' doesn't even come into it. I just feel for these people.

    I don't have the words.

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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    From what I've read, they're not as stringent as they once were. Teenagers go into town and stuff now.

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  • Jan
    replied
    For me, one aspect of this incident that makes it even more tragic is that it happened to the Amish. I don't believe as they do and don't agree with much of what they believe but I've never heard it said that they don't truly live their religion and beliefs. If there's a saving grace, it's that a major part of their lives is the strong sense of community that they reportedly have. They've got all of my sympathy and respect.

    Jan

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  • WorkerCaste
    replied
    I think that forgiving those that have harmed you is a state of grace that can be aspired to, but is very hard to truly achieve. Certainly it's part of the Christain doctrine. I would note, though, that the community has forgiven as opposed to the individual parents. Even at the community level, it's an admirable thing, but I can't imagine being able to do it myself.

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  • AmyG
    replied
    Enjo, I used to work in the entertainment industry -- dealing mostly with lawyers -- so yeah, I'm used to working with despicable, soulless human beings, too.

    Towelmaster, sorry if I sounded confrontational: like you, I was just trying to make a point. As for the forgiveness issue, I don't think you're unusual in saying that you couldn't forgive the murderer. I'm sure I couldn't, either. But there's a certain school of religious thought, not unknown to Christians, that says that the ultimate act of being a good human being in the eyes of (G)(g)od/dess/es (you might call it "charity" or "grace") is to be able to face your enemies with compassion. It's really easy to embrace that concept in theory, but if I were one of the parents of those murdered children -- particularly the pair of sisters (those parents lost two children!) -- I'd find it very, very difficult to put into practice myself.

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  • Towelmaster
    replied
    Originally posted by AmyG
    I don't think that it matters whether or not they were too upset, grief-stricken, etc., to notice that their religious beliefs had been compromised. The point is not whether or not they were actually upset; the point is that people shouldn't do something that they know (and I'm convinced that most of the press there, being local, did know) would compromise these peoples' religious beliefs.

    Would you sneak some pork or shellfish into a stew if you were having Orthodox Jews over to your house for dinner, if you thought they wouldn't be able to discern that it was in there?
    Good one Enjo.

    Amy : I wouldn't but then again I am not a reporter... As a matter of fact I don't believe in any kind of God at all and still; no I wouldn't. That's just the same plain decency that I expect from others when it comes to my 'beliefs'.

    My point was not to undermine yours. My point was that if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one to hear it, etcetera.

    I just read that the Amish community forgives the murderer. I would not be able to do that. Not ever. Are they weird or over-religious, or am I so unforgiving?

    Edit : here's a newslink to the latest info. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061004/D8KHONM80.html
    Last edited by Towelmaster; 10-04-2006, 10:46 AM.

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  • enjo
    replied
    Would you sneak some pork or shellfish into a stew if you were having Orthodox Jews over to your house for dinner, if you thought they wouldn't be able to discern that it was in there?
    'I' wouldn't.. and I'm pretty sure 'you' wouldn't, Amy.. but, having (unfortunately) had to work with the media for about 10 fairly-miserable years, I wouldn't put it past most of 'them' if it somehow got a story.

    Anne

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