What's your fave sci-fi TV series so far and why?

[Dr Maturin]

<<But I must admit, I still love to see old 50's scifi - give me a sleek rocket, a cool robot, some spacesuits, and a pretty girl for the alien monster to chase and I'm happy as can be!>>

This Island Earth!

[Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt]

Zha-

I share many of your opinions on DS9, Voyager, and Ent - not all of them mind you, but pretty much overall? Yeah. I'm still laughing about your comment on Janeway's voice! I agree totally!

I have history with ST:TOS. It cannot be displaced. But many have come close. TNG and DS9 I loved, but just not quite in the same, "nostalgic, seen through the eyes of youth" way. My wife prefers the latter two.

B5 has it's own place in my pantheon, and it cannot be displaced as well. Hey JMS! That's a challenge for ya, man!

Other shows like Stargate I find really (really) good, but only time will tell if they have as much impact.

But I must admit, I still love to see old 50's scifi - give me a sleek rocket, a cool robot, some spacesuits, and a pretty girl for the alien monster to chase and I'm happy as can be!

Andrew-

Wow, man. A very interesting piece of anthropological comparison. Sounds like a topic for a good research paper.

[Dr Maturin]

<<Without knowing long term danger friendships, Hollywood has to reduced groups to the family, which immediately means sex. As well as not understanding two straight (police) men working together, incest free brother and sister do not compute either.>>

Wow...maybe that's why hollywood marriages don't last, either...

[Andrew_Swallow]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
Most interesting was the doctor and Miles' relationship, of which some have mistakenly labeled as vaguely homosexual. When in this "homophobic" society are we going to learn that loving your buddies is not gay? I have told my best friend, who is a Marine veteran, that I love him.

I have just worked that one out. You write what you know. There are no real friendships in Hollywood - everyone is a rival.

In a village there are 3 big organisational groups.

1. The family - mother, cubs and in human groups the father.
2. The sowing circle - made up from the women. A great group for talking and babysitting.
3. The hunting party. Food and land based. Every month the group goes into danger to get food and to prevent rival tribes from gaining control of the land. Without long term trust and liking (friendship) the group will fall apart and fail.

Hollywood can do the family; there are a few around. It is even better on love affairs - there is a lot of lust in that place.

The sowing circle and hunting party are a different matter. At the end of the film everyone goes their own way and they are in competition for the few available jobs.

Without knowing long term danger friendships, Hollywood has to reduced groups to the family, which immediately means sex. As well as not understanding two straight (police) men working together, incest free brother and sister do not compute either.

[Dr Maturin]

<<That example is the tip of the iceberg. By the way, I think 7of9 made a better Vulcan than T'Pol... It's really hard to put what I feel into words. They aren't clones per se, but they're all of the same mold...straight, middle class, yuppie American mentallity comes to mind. Bland is another concept. To put it simply, with only a few exceptions, I simply couldn't give a sh*t about any of the characters. They're people I not only don't care about...I wouldn't want to know them if I met them.>>

*Sniff* You don't care about a straight, middle-class American like me. Not a yuppie, though! I didn't like Voyager and Enterprise because they rehashed the same stories over and over. Does Braga not have any imagination? I didn't like Janeway, especially her voice. There was just something about her I didn't like. Lochley, I liked as a female captain. Paris, just a jackass kid. Kim, just a timid nerd. Neelix was cool. Kes sucked. Chakotay didn't seem like he should have...he was a Maquis, but seemed too amiable. Tuvok...tripped me out.

As for the Maquis thing...they dropped the ball with that. They could have done more with tension and any number of things. But it was like they forgot they were Maquis after a while.

<<ST characters from DS9 on began to ...well, take themselves too seriously. The humor is gone unless it's forced and contrived. The characters are flat, two dimensional people that to me are humorless and uninteresting and they whine. So, perhaps it is in that vein that I say they're all copies. There is a difference between drama and overt melo-drama. One to me is B5 the other is a soap-opera.>>

I liked everything about DS9, pretty much. The humor was great, to me. But you are right about the 2-D stuff. But that is ST in general. Everyone from the Federation is a communist-esque hive member. Michael Eddington goes so far as to tell that to Sisko in other terms. "You're worse than the Borg!" That is why I liked Eddington and Garak and Quark...they had something. And despite DS9's difference from other Trek, it still got a bit too preachy. But I still liked the preach eps. "Past Tense" good, but the message was transparent, and even Ira Behr has admitted it. "Far Beyond the Stars" was great, but also transparent, although about a more legitimate issue in its context. There was the female kiss, which I don't think was as much a statement as it was eye candy for ratings. But make no mistake about it, I liked the show, I liked the dialogue, I liked the characters. Miles was probably my favorite human, along with Sisko, and Bashir a close third. Most interesting was the doctor and Miles' relationship, of which some have mistakenly labeled as vaguely homosexual. When in this "homophobic" society are we going to learn that loving your buddies is not gay? I have told my best friend, who is a Marine veteran, that I love him.


I didn't like Jadzia, though. My mom did. She was just not well written. All of her episodes were stand alone science concepts. Mostly.

[colonyearth]

Re: ALIENÖ: RESURRECTION

I found STAR TREK: VOYAGERÖ to have the greatest amount of inherent Dramatic Conflict of all that franchiseÆs seiies, arsing directly from the fact that The Maquis & STARFLEETÖ personnel are literally trapped together in a hostile area of populated space that is now known to them.

That's fine except that they basically abandoned that conflict fairly early on and, though I liked Janeway, she rarely got to be the version I liked best...a though but still sensitive kick-ass bitch. No, VOYAGER quickly turned into "holodecking through the universe."

STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE 9Ö was no more verbose & melodramatic than STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATIONÖ.
Is it possible that you noticed it more because the purpose of Melodrama was not properly understood by given castmembers?
Please elaborate about the charactersÆ being ôlittle copies of each otherö with specific examples.
I have heard many people say that LT. COMM. DATAÖ & 7/9Ö are both ôSPOCKÖ clonesö, given their inability to grasp ôhuman emotionö.
Are you getting @ something similar?

That example is the tip of the iceberg. By the way, I think 7of9 made a better Vulcan than T'Pol... It's really hard to put what I feel into words. They aren't clones per se, but they're all of the same mold...straight, middle class, yuppie American mentallity comes to mind. Bland is another concept. To put it simply, with only a few exceptions, I simply couldn't give a sh*t about any of the characters. They're people I not only don't care about...I wouldn't want to know them if I met them.

You watch shows like B5, Stargate, Farscape...hell even Crusade and Firefly which both had about the same number of episodes and I LOVE the characters. They're fun, exciting and interesting people that I want to tune in and see each week. Why? Because I'm endeared to them...I like them.

ST characters from DS9 on began to ...well, take themselves too seriously. The humor is gone unless it's forced and contrived. The characters are flat, two dimensional people that to me are humorless and uninteresting and they whine. So, perhaps it is in that vein that I say they're all copies. There is a difference between drama and overt melo-drama. One to me is B5 the other is a soap-opera.

I liked Janeway, and in the beginning I liked Neelix (though he started to get old after a while), but I couldn't give two sh*ts about Paris, Kim, Tuvoc, Chakotay, etc. However, I did like 7of9 though I HATED her wardrobe...when it comes to using T&A to boost ratings, then something's wrong...I mean really, can we fit T'Pol into anything tighter for christ's sake?!

DS9, I liked Quark and Rom, I liked Odo in the beginning...Worf was a carryover from TNG (and loved that cast because I liked who they were) and my fav DS9 person was killed off in a ludicrously bad fashion, Jadzia Dax (the ORIGINAL, not that whiner they put on in the last season.)

As for ENTERPRISE, the only character I remotely like is Phlox and they rarely use him. Did you know he's a wonderful comedic actor? He's on a S6 ep. of SG-1 where he actually makes fun of ST and steals the show. But ST doesn't know real, character-driven, human humor anymore. As for the rest of the ENTERPRISE cast....eh! Though I like Bakula as an actor, I hate his character. I know Blalock can be someone I like because she was in a S7 ep. of SG-1 and I loved her there, but I hate T'Pol..or rather how they're writing her and directing her and clothing her; it's sooooooo not Vulcan. That character alone has done more to destroy the rich Vulcan culture that Nimoy worked for years to create than Berman and Co. could've ever hoped for. Though Tripp is a hotty...(see even T&A in hot guys isn't a solution for a queer guy), I still don't like his character and couldn't give a cat's wet behind whether he lives or dies. As for the others...I can't even remember their names right off...what's that say?....Hoshi, that's one...hmmm.....and the weapons guy. Hoshi....underused and badly written....weapons guy....YUCK! Hate him.

No....ST is missing passion, vision, and characters that you are truly and deeply endeared to, like the ones on other SF shows. If B5, SG, FARSCAPE, etc, can consistantly do it...why can't ST? Hell, I fall for guest characters in one episode of other shows more than I do for any major character in an entire run of a ST show.

I could literally write at the least a novella analyzing the demise of a franchise for ST. It would be a fascinating investigation and dissertation...and to no small degree scathing to Berman and others in charge....ahem!...Braga!....ahem....cough.

As for the bonus points...THANKS Do I get to move to the head of the class and sit up front near you?

Why BBC hasn't thought of doing that yet is beyond me...they have all of the soundtracks...so...animate the missing ones. But it can't be that cheap animation they're using on BBCi...ick...no it's gotta be GOOD animation.

See, I'm just filled with all sorts of great ideas and stories like that. Maybe I'll get to tell a few of them or help in some way before my end comes

Peace,
CE

[Dr Maturin]

<<wanted to see more of MS. MARJEAN HOLDENÆS character arc.>>

I wanted to see more of Ms. Marjean Holden...

[colonyearth]

Re: ALIENÖ: RESURRECTION

Originally posted by MALCOLM XERXESÖ
[B][COLOR=red]COLONYEARTH,

I am unsure to what you are referring when you say ôbreathe opens the doorö.
Please elaborate.

When they breathe on the sensor to identify themselves...to me it's just plain ...well...stupid.

I thought some thing were explained in ôthe Alien Universeö quite well, such as the fact that they are capable of learning & sharing what they have learned through a hive mind, as well as making tactical decisions like sacrificing 1 of their own to exploit its blood.

What would you rather have seen of the picture, instead?

This one will take some time, so remind to respond to it latter...but in short...some filling of holes created in A3, such as where the eggs on the damn Sulako came from...where did the Aliens themselves come from...what was the origin of the derelict ship...etc.

And Radhill....MAN! Alien 1 and 2 are more SF over all to me...you GOTTA rent the DVD's and watch 1 and 2...promise me you will...but watch the original DVD cut of 1 and the Director's Cut (Cameron's Cut) of 2. They are classics and the other films that followed were pale, sad little films in comparison.

The deaths of NEWT, BISHOP & HICKS were unforgivable, & smacked of backstage politics & lazy dramaturgy.
No, I have not yet seen the longer cuts of any of the 4 films.

I agree, and don't know why they did what they did...no imagination perhaps?

I grok the fullness of the totality concerning MR. JOSS WHEDONÆS ôteen mentality thingö, but as THE DEVILÆS ADVOCATEÖ, is that not required when one is writing a pair of series which are aimed @ adolescent North American youths, chronicling the adventures of a group of adolescent North American youths?

I agree with you except that I know adults into Buffy and such and I just never could get into it...it was like a psuedo-scary Dawson's Crack to me....just not my bag I suppose...and considering that A4 was my only real other major taste of him...you see my opinion...that is until Firefly, which again, I really liked.

BTW, I LOVE Titan A.E. It's because of that film...Lion King and Beauty and the Beast (plus a little thing called Pixar) is why we now have a Best Animated Feature at the Oscars.

I'll go into more response later...I'm running late and have to run.

CE

[frulad]

Originally posted by colonyearth

Max Headroom...I'd forgotten about that...it was fun and sadly another FOX axe fell upon it.

Actually, Max was an ABC show. I believe it premiered the same night that Moonlighting premiered it's first regular hour episode. ("Gunfight at the So-So Corral" featuring a pre-Murphy Brown Pat Corley.)


Good lord I can't believe I can remember some of this stuff...

[Radhil]

Re: ALIENÖ: RESURRECTION

Originally posted by MALCOLM XERXESÖ
I would not be able to sit through a film that was a sequel without first having done a marathon of the preceding 3 pictures, otherwise I could not enjoy it properly.

I prefer it that way too. I think it was just the only thing on at the time. *shrug*

How was ELLEN RIPLEY ôacting totally off her rockerö?

As I understand it, from what I've seen of the second movie, Ripley's mainly a worker, a tech, a mainly normal person trying to deal with extraordinary harsh crap going down. In Resurrection, she has a kind of battle-lust to her that's more than a mite freaky - especially from Sigourney Weaver.

That and she sticks a knife through her own hand to make a point. I call that a little off. Cool, damn effective, still off.

What are some of MR. WHEDONÆS ôvery notable train wrecksö & his ôexcusesö for them?

Let's see.... The original Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a drastically mediocre and stupid movie compared to the TV series. He was also involved in Titan AE (not terrible, but fairly cheesy), and of course Alien Resurrection (as CE shows, many Alien fans were not happy with it). Whedon also takes credit for the absolute worst line in sci-fi movie history - Storm, in X-Men, "The same thing that happens to everything else".

His usual claims for almost all of these black marks are that the directors or actors changed the intents in his scripts (Storm's line was supposed to be offhand, insead of serious, as an example). Other times, he's simply taken the shame. I'm usually amused by either response - he's made enough good stuff in his TV series' that I can forgive the crappy stuff he's made.

[MALCOLM XERXESÖ]

ALIENÖ: RESURRECTION

COLONYEARTH,

I am unsure to what you are referring when you say ôbreathe opens the doorö.
Please elaborate.

I thought some thing were explained in ôthe Alien Universeö quite well, such as the fact that they are capable of learning & sharing what they have learned through a hive mind, as well as making tactical decisions like sacrificing 1 of their own to exploit its blood.

What would you rather have seen of the picture, instead?

The deaths of NEWT, BISHOP & HICKS were unforgivable, & smacked of backstage politics & lazy dramaturgy.
No, I have not yet seen the longer cuts of any of the 4 films.

I grok the fullness of the totality concerning MR. JOSS WHEDONÆS ôteen mentality thingö, but as THE DEVILÆS ADVOCATEÖ, is that not required when one is writing a pair of series which are aimed @ adolescent North American youths, chronicling the adventures of a group of adolescent North American youths?

I found STAR TREK: VOYAGERÖ to have the greatest amount of inherent Dramatic Conflict of all that franchiseÆs seiies, arsing directly from the fact that The Maquis & STARFLEETÖ personnel are literally trapped together in a hostile area of populated space that is now known to them.

STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE 9Ö was no more verbose & melodramatic than STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATIONÖ.
Is it possible that you noticed it more because the purpose of Melodrama was not properly understood by given castmembers?
Please elaborate about the charactersÆ being ôlittle copies of each otherö with specific examples.
I have heard many people say that LT. COMM. DATAÖ & 7/9Ö are both ôSPOCKÖ clonesö, given their inability to grasp ôhuman emotionö.
Are you getting @ something similar?

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

RADHIL,

I would not be able to sit through a film that was a sequel without first having done a marathon of the preceding 3 pictures, otherwise I could not enjoy it properly.

How was ELLEN RIPLEY ôacting totally off her rockerö?

What are some of MR. WHEDONÆS ôvery notable train wrecksö & his ôexcusesö for them?

[Radhil]

I was really hoping for the 4th film to tie up loose ends and explain some things in the Alien Universe...but instead it copped out, jumped 200 years into the future and went into some kind of off the wall, almost slapstick dimension. Sorry...though to this day I hate that fact that they killed Newt in 3, at least I can say I jumped once or twice. BTW, have you seen the longer cut on the newest DVD of Alien 3? It makes the film much better.

I'm actually not a big Alien fan - having never seen the first, never seen the second in one complete run (and always hacked up crappy TV cuts), and never seen the third except the end. By all rights I should be, sci-fi classic and all, but I've never been big on horror, and that's what the Alien franchise is all about really. Less so in the second flick, but I have Abyss and T2 if I want classic sci-fi Cameron. I found Resurrection entertaining enough, if only because of Ripley acting totally off her rocker.

I'm just a Whedon fan, and am a little familiar with most of his "excuses" for some of his very notable train wrecks. Heh.

[colonyearth]

Originally posted by Radhil
Joss Whedon came up with the core concepts and wrote the majority of Alien: Resurrection. Whether or not it's his fault the movie wasn't that good (or honestly, whether or nor the movie was good or not) are matters for debate. Although I find it interesting to note that The Powers That Be (I forget exactly which studio) commissioned and dropped at least three scripts for Alien4 before buying Whedon's, so there certainly was suckage to be had beforehand.

He wrote the script, and received sole screen credit for it...and whether it's his fault or the director's or someone else's the "breathe opens the door" thing was nothing but stupid and the captain was a moron. This film was much more "B" monster flick than in the true alien vein IMHO. It never made me jump...and the alien costumes looked the worst they've ever looked...something was off in this film (although I'm not a huge fan of Alien 3 either and as a filmmaker I acknowledge that you can't lay all the blame at Whedon's feet).

I was really hoping for the 4th film to tie up loose ends and explain some things in the Alien Universe...but instead it copped out, jumped 200 years into the future and went into some kind of off the wall, almost slapstick dimension. Sorry...though to this day I hate that fact that they killed Newt in 3, at least I can say I jumped once or twice. BTW, have you seen the longer cut on the newest DVD of Alien 3? It makes the film much better.

Joss to me still has a bit too much of the teen mentality thing going...that..."heheh...yeah...he farted" approach...I like my SF a bit more imaginative and better written. Now with Firefly...Whedon was showing me he had started to grow up a bit and I really felt like it had potential.

As for ST: Enterprise...burn it to the ground! Berman must go!

Though I liked Janeway, Voyager was a lack-luster show and DS9 was a bunch of talk and overt melo-drama. BORING! Not to mention most of the characters from DS9 on are interchangeable from show to show. They're all little copies of each other. No imagination.

Sad
CE

[Anders]

Here's the Space Precinct that I thought about: http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Stage/6188/

[LytaaaarGh]

I remember space precinct:1999 - where the heads were 'slightly' out of proportion with the bodies, no money lost there

But it was strangely captivating and i did become increasingly fond of the show. That was Gerry Anderson right?

But off topic to that - i was reminded of Dark Skies yesterday when i saw an ad for Without a Trace in which the former Mr John Loengard (sp) is now playing a major role \o/ look forward to it. But Dark skies was so intricate and clever and introduced the idea of t he 'Greys' being invaded long before Stargate (probably just a coincidence ofc )