JMS/Bryce Zabel Star Trek Treatment

[Andrew_Swallow]

I hadn't heard that it did badly. But there's other SF that's doing pretty well-BSG for example, Both Stagates. And a lot of people are claiming Lost as being genre.

Jan

In Britain Doctor Who is in the top 3 shows accross all channels including soaps and sport. In the USA it is just getting an average rating on the cult SciFi channel.

[AaronB]

In Britain Doctor Who is in the top 3 shows accross all channels including soaps and sport. In the USA it is just getting an average rating on the cult SciFi channel.

I would think that it's a niche channel like Food Network, Lifetime, Golf and MSNBC. Unless you consider all of those channels cult like as well.

[Jan]

In Britain Doctor Who is in the top 3 shows accross all channels including soaps and sport. In the USA it is just getting an average rating on the cult SciFi channel.

That would naturally follow. Dr. Who has been on in the UK for many years and hardly at all here in the States. When it *has* been on, it's usually been incomplete and on public television channels.

'Lost' is probably the first network genre (assuming you accept that it is) series to get excellent ratings in prime time. Even original Trek was cancelled due to bad ratings, after all, and only became a hit in reruns. The other Treks have been in syndication, not first-run on major networks.

Jan

[AaronB]

That would naturally follow. Dr. Who has been on in the UK for many years and hardly at all here in the States. When it *has* been on, it's usually been incomplete and on public television channels.

'Lost' is probably the first network genre (assuming you accept that it is) series to get excellent ratings in prime time. Even original Trek was cancelled due to bad ratings, after all, and only became a hit in reruns. The other Treks have been in syndication, not first-run on major networks.

Jan

Jan on what basis are the others (pardon the pun) suggesting that Lost is part of the sci-fi genre?

[Jan]

Jan on what basis are the others (pardon the pun) suggesting that Lost is part of the sci-fi genre?

Black smoke that seems sentient, visions, possible mystic healing, Walt seeming able to affect his surroundings and until recently, the magnetic phenomenon (which still doesn't explain why so many different craft end up wrecking on the island).

Jan

[frulad]

'Lost' is probably the first network genre (assuming you accept that it is) series to get excellent ratings in prime time.

Whay about-
Twilight Zone (Original series)
Batman was a big hit for its first two seasons before folks got tired of it.
Twin Peaks was a ratings hit in it's first season and a half

[JDSValen]

What do you guys think of the possibilities of this actually happening are (or at least something along these lines)?

The Abrams movie, whether its a Kirk/Spock/McCoy Academy movie or not, will exist within current continuity so, if it bombs, do you think Paramount would be more open to something that exists outside of that continutiy ("Universe B" as it were)?

The pitch did seem a little too much like B5 (and, now that I think of it, so did Jeremiah) but I'd watch it.

[Towelmaster]

On-topic...:

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20060423&mode=classic

[Joe Nazzaro]

I think you also have to include The X-Files in this discussion. Maybe the ratings weren't as good as the numbers on the big three (CBS, NBC, ABC) for non-Americans, but they were certainly very healthy for Fox, which was still establishing itself as a full-fledged network.

[Dr Maturin]

You really think that the fact that one of those sites claims 30 million downloads doesn't indicate that there's a worldwide fan demand for new Trek with the original characters? Wow. I wonder what it would take to impress you.

If anyone assumes that a Trek show should would garner even half that number on a weekly television show, then they're living in a mirror universe (BAM with the Trek reference!).

The pitch did seem a little too much like B5 (and, now that I think of it, so did Jeremiah) but I'd watch it.

As would we all. But the first part of the statement above is exactly right. Thus far, JMS has been a one trick pony, and as great at that trick might have been, I don't want to see it or anything close to it again. Just like I don't want to see an ersatz Kirk.

I would have prefered to see the JMS/Zabel series as opposed to seeing what Abrams supposedly has in store with the Starfleet Acadmey premise.

The Academy is part of my idea, but trust me, what I have in mind isn't Starfleet 90210.

[Jan]

The pitch did seem a little too much like B5 (and, now that I think of it, so did Jeremiah) but I'd watch it.

As would we all. But the first part of the statement above is exactly right. Thus far, JMS has been a one trick pony, and as great at that trick might have been, I don't want to see it or anything close to it again.

I'm puzzled. Exactly what about the description for 'Jeremiah' sounded like B5? Because I can't think of much about the Jeremiah end product that resembled B5. For that matter, what about the Trek treatment does? Surely you can't be talking about the five year storyline/literary structure? Because that's a style, no different from the fact that most hour dramas are a teaser, four acts and a tag. I'd suggest that whatever resemblance is being seen is due to the expectations of the reader.

Jan

[JDSValen]

Originally posted by Jan
I'm puzzled. Exactly what about the description for 'Jeremiah' sounded like B5? Because I can't think of much about the Jeremiah end product that resembled B5. For that matter, what about the Trek treatment does? Surely you can't be talking about the five year storyline/literary structure? Because that's a style, no different from the fact that most hour dramas are a teaser, four acts and a tag. I'd suggest that whatever resemblance is being seen is due to the expectations of the reader.

Babylon 5 was about making your own future, not letting others do it for you.

With Jeremiah, Jeremiah, Marcus, et. al in their base of operations (B5)battled both Valhala Sector (Vorlons) and Daniel's forces (Shadows) to create a future worth living in.

With the Star Trek pitch, Kirk would be out in the galaxy searching for this ancient race (Vorlons), and he also alluded to a dark ancient race (Shadows) that they would come across. They were also going out there to establish a human presence in the galaxy.

The settings are different, but the plot and themes are all the same.

[Jan]

I think you're reaching awfully far there. The essence of drama is conflict. If you insist on seeing Shadows and Vorlons as the conflict in everything JMS writes, then you'll miss the actual story. The conflict of Chaos vs. Order have been around far longer than JMS and while one might consider Daniel's forces in 'Jeremiah' to being Order, I really don't see that the Thunder Mountain force could be considered Chaos...especially since they were the Good Guys.

I'll grant that there are several themes that JMS includes in his stories, like creating your own future and the power of the individual and being kind to one another but that hardly makes each story he writes the same. Considering that some (most?) of those themes go back to He-Man and She-Ra, Twilight Zone and others, perhaps you should compare everything he wrote afterward to those, not to B5.

Jan

[vacantlook]

It has long been said that there are no new stories, just new ways of telling them.

And I'm just not surprised at any forms of parallel to fighting two sides a la Vorlons and Shadows; they were constructed as a new telling of the old story of order versus chaos, after all. But just because there are two sides to fight doesn't automatically equal "oh look at the Vorlon and Shadow substitutes". And the idea of some ancient civilization as a story construct has been around long before jms incorporated it into Babylon 5.

EDIT: And of course I get beaten to the point while I obsessively revise and rerevise my post as usual.

[Jan]

I think you've beaten me to the post before, Vacantlook, not to worry.

Jan