The Rampant, Irresponsible Political Thread

[Dr Maturin]

No, the traitors are those who publicly disclose CIA agents names for their own political gain.

No, the traitors are those who leak real TOP SECRET information to the media for political gain. Oh, and the media for publishing it.

[Der Mike]

Hey, the Supreme Court already passed a ruling earlier this week that crapped all over the 4th Ammendment. It's time to get working on some of those other pesky things in the ever increasingly inconvienant Bill of Rights.

They ruled you don't have to wait a long time after knocking before entering a house, clearing up something moderately that is a massive "grey area".

No, the traitors are those who publicly disclose CIA agents names for their own political gain.

Fortunately, the last person to do that was Philip Agee, who is a Communist.
-=Mike

[frulad]

They ruled you don't have to wait a long time after knocking before entering a house, clearing up something moderately that is a massive "grey area".

Actually, if you read the ruling, you'll see that the Court said that it was permissable to still use evidence collected even when police do not announce themselves properly when entering with a warrant. In effect, this is a complete end run around the Fourth.

Fortunately, the last person to do that was Philip Agee, who is a Communist.
-=Mike

Actually, Bush the First said that back in the mid-90s when he was speaking at the dedication of a new CIA office building. Would you care for me to dig up a citation?

[Karachi Vyce]

It is NOT a complete run around the fourth amendment. Jesus Christ, I always love when non-lawyers think they know shit about the law.

All this ruling does is reflect actual reality of police searches. Watch an episode of Cops. They don't go, "Hey, we're the police!" and then wait five minutes for your ass to come to the door. They're going to be coming in within three to five seconds whether they announce themselves or not.

If the police have a valid warrant, than your goddamn illegal contraband shouldn't be suppressed just because they didn't announce their presence five seconds before they kicked your door in anyway.

[David Panzer]

That is, if the police got the address right

[Der Mike]

Actually, if you read the ruling, you'll see that the Court said that it was permissable to still use evidence collected even when police do not announce themselves properly when entering with a warrant. In effect, this is a complete end run around the Fourth.

Actually, Bush the First said that back in the mid-90s when he was speaking at the dedication of a new CIA office building. Would you care for me to dig up a citation?

That he was referring to Agee, actually, is REALLY common knowledge.

Agee wrote a book called "Inside the Company" that outed HUNDREDS of CIA agents, leading directly to the death of the head of the office in Greece. The Intelligence Identity Protection Act (which many people on the left --- with zero knowledge of the law --- claimed was violated in the Plame affair --- it wasn't, of course) was passed SPECIFICALLY because of what he did.

Bush said in 1991: In 1991, the elder Bush said, "I don't care how long I live, I will never forgive Philip Agee and those like him who wantonly sacrifice the lives of intelligence officers who loyally serve their country."

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=129392

Who Bush was referring to is not even a question.

And, as Vyce pointed out, there was no "run around" of the 4th Amendment. It clarified how long an officer had to wait before entering a building when executing a warrant.

If they have a warrant --- it is immaterial.

Again, "penumbras and eminations" of the Constitution can make abortion a protected "right" --- but this, THIS violates the 4th Amendment.

Sure.
-=Mike

[Karachi Vyce]

That is, if the police got the address right

The number of instances where the cops get the addressed wrong is dwarfed by the number of instances where the cops get the address RIGHT.

Don't waste our time if your argument against this ruling is "Oh, this is bad because the police are inevitable going to get an address wrong now and then."

And, as Vyce pointed out, there was no "run around" of the 4th Amendment. It clarified how long an officer had to wait before entering a building when executing a warrant.

If they have a warrant --- it is immaterial.

All of these people crying that the 4th amendment is destroyed are also ignoring that there are circumstances where the police don't have to knock or announce themselves anyway.

This ruling is not the end of the world. It's not as if they suddenly overruled Miranda or something that severe.

[Der Mike]

Also, unless I'm nuts, if the address is wrong, any evidence couldn't be used regardless.

But, using this logic, the federal gov't should never provide aid after a disaster, considering that FEMA has been defrauded so massively in N'Awlins.
-=Mike

[David Panzer]

Damn, I must have missed the point when Karachi Vyce pays for the operation of this message board out of his pocket.

My last post was just pointing out a simple fact that, yes, sometimes our good friends in blue fuck up and get the address wrong.

Sucks when it happens for those involved, but it does give a nice opportunity to give a Nelson laugh to the cops.

[Der Mike]

Damn, I must have missed the point when Karachi Vyce pays for the operation of this message board out of his pocket.

I missed the point where he asked you to leave. Maybe you could tell which lines you read between for that.

My last post was just pointing out a simple fact that, yes, sometimes our good friends in blue fuck up and get the address wrong.

Sucks when it happens for those involved, but it does give a nice opportunity to give a Nelson laugh to the cops.

You pointed out something that is an exceptional rarity. It'd be like being terrified of being eaten by a shark or hit by lightning.
-=Mike

[David Panzer]

The last time it happened in the Memphis area (Shelby-Metro area: which includes Crittenden County in Arkansas, and DeSoto County in Mississippi) was 2 months ago.

The police obtained a warrant to search a particular house since they suspected it to create Meth.

They busted the door, and instead of some white trash from Northern Mississippi making homebrewed Meth, they found a couple in their 70's. The Meth lab was next door.

Rarity or not, it does happen. But I forget, since a group of terrorists decided to play chicken with some buildings after hijacking an airplane, it's not popular to criticize those with authority.

I missed the point where he asked you to leave. Maybe you could tell which lines you read between for that.

I read the words, not the spaces between them.

Don't waste our time if your argument against this ruling is "Oh, this is bad because the police are inevitable going to get an address wrong now and then."

[Der Mike]

The last time it happened in the Memphis area (Shelby-Metro area: which includes Crittenden County in Arkansas, and DeSoto County in Mississippi) was 2 months ago.

2 months ago.

And they issue how many warrants a day for searches?

Care to guess the number?

And the percentage that are executed improperly are...?

The police obtained a warrant to search a particular house since they suspected it to create Meth.

They busted the door, and instead of some white trash from Northern Mississippi making homebrewed Meth, they found a couple in their 70's. The Meth lab was next door.

Yes, and this SCOTUS ruling is going to make that a daily problem. DANG, they're breaking down MY door right now...

Rarity or not, it does happen. But I forget, since a group of terrorists decided to play chicken with some buildings after hijacking an airplane, it's not popular to criticize those with authority.

I forgot that not waiting 30 seconds after knocking means that the police violated your civil rights, even though they had a court warrant to do it.

But if you wish to link this to a crackdown on civil liberties, that is your funeral.

I read the words, not the spaces between them.

I read them, too. You mis-read them.
-=Mike

[David Panzer]

Dude, I just made a snide comment about the police getting addresses wrong, which does happen occasionally.

I honestly don't give one damn about a Supreme Court ruling that doesn't affect me, unless I do something illegal in the privacy of my apartment that warrants a police search.

In all my posting in this particular thread, when have I ever been serious?

[Karachi Vyce]

Also, unless I'm nuts, if the address is wrong, any evidence couldn't be used regardless.

It depends. Plain view doctrine would still apply. So, if the police bust into your house, thinking it's another address, and you're sitting there at the coffee table snorting a line of coke, yeah, that's going to be used against you. Those types of a cases do happen.

I read the words, not the spaces between them.

Mike's right, I was arguing against using such a specious argument rather than "get out of this forum and never come back."

Although I do remember someone threatening to leave because I was very negative in one of the comic book threads.

[Karachi Vyce]

By the definition of this country, legislature typically speaks for the majority, courts for the minority. If you have a problem with the methods of the minority, take it up with the founders.

What the hell are you talking about? Are you speaking abstractly here or what?