The Rampant, Irresponsible Political Thread

[AaronB]

I beleive that gays should be able to marry so they can be as miserable as the rest of us married folk

[manwithnoname]

This is a hot topic for many in this country.

I see this issue brougth forth by Bush as a way to appeal to conservatives (not fiscal conservatives, mind you) b/c his immigration ideas stiffened their collars.

To me, pushing this topic is an issue AND a non-issue:

Issue #1: Some people want to marry freely, without restrictions. This does fall into States' rights versus Federal government rights'. The only thing I take issue with is the argument that same-sex marriage destroys the family unit.

Issue #2: My point against this good-sounding, false statement: Heterosexuals have been doing a damn good job of destroying the family unit. How? Adultery. Murder: money, jealousy, greed, women treated as property, domestic abuse, rape, etc.

Banning same-sex marriages doesn't SOLVE anything. How about spending time usefully, like, say, maybe on Social Security, huge trading deficit with China, auditing corporations of the same ilk as Enron, Worldcom, and Tyco who destroy people's future.

Clinton signed a bill into law (Andrew Vachss and others worked on for many years) that creates a Federal database of sex offenders -- that's NEVER received any funding. The national database prevents any sex offender from just moving to another state and starting their hunt elsewhere undetected. The sex offender registry is a joke. What happens when the sex offender decides not to register? Nothing.

So, no, let's not spend time on worthwhile issues that impacts our future, children. Politicians, Dems & Repubs, love using slogans like "We need to invest and protect our children because they are our future." A bunch of BS.

No, let's focus on something that is divisive and diversionary, well, because I got this thing with alienating my conservative base, and the Scooter Libby thing has been boiling for quite awhile; I need to draw focus away from all that stuff, heh, heh <Bush laugh>.

Non-issue #1: I'm a straight male. I believe allowing same-sex marriages will not do any harm. All my guy friends are straight.

Non-issue #2: Waste of Congress' time and money, which is a waste of my tax dollars.

Is anyone in America a fiscal conservative anymore? I feel lonely out here. <sniff, sniff>

[Karachi Vyce]

We've got millions of Muslim fanatics eager to see the streets run red with our infidel blood, and yet some people in this country seem to think that the worst thing in the world is one guy sucking another guy's cock.

Just get over yourselves. And stop wasting legislative time on this nonsense. I'm paying these jackasses a hell of a lot of money in taxes every year for these idiots to piss away their days debating THIS. Quit trying to find ways to legally discriminate homosexuals. I realize they're like the last group out there that white males can safely persecute, but enough.

[Dr Maturin]

Let's leave it up to the states, whether it be through referendum or legislation.

It isn't about who sucks whose cock, as people can do what they want sexually. It is about creating special rights for a minority group.

It isn't about harm, either. Gays have the exact same rights that everyone else does. Now, this isn't a slippery slope argument, because creating these special rights WILL lead to the polygamists and ephebophobes, and others demanding special rights of their own.

This country has come a long, long way in being tolerant of homosexuality. Gays should count their blessings.

[David Panzer]

Yeah, those pesky minority groups... I say with sarcasm

[Dr Maturin]

Let's read everything in context, please.

[David Panzer]

My context is with mockery, satire, sarcasm and a general unseriousness

[manwithnoname]

Let's leave it up to the states, whether it be through referendum or legislation.

Which isn't being done. Hence, Bush pushing this topic.

It isn't about who sucks whose cock, as people can do what they want sexually. It is about creating special rights for a minority group.

Or muff. Don't forget the beaver.

It isn't about harm, either. Gays have the exact same rights that everyone else does.

No, not really. Gays can not claim a spouse for healthcare reasons as heterosexuals. They have the right not to be harrassed and killed, yes. They don't have the exact same rights; they have similar rights as everyone does.

Now, this isn't a slippery slope argument, because creating these special rights WILL lead to the polygamists and ephebophobes, and others demanding special rights of their own.

From my understanding, gays are wanting equal rights, not extraordinary rights. Gays want the same rights such as claiming a spouse for tax purposes, medical & dental insurance, child custody, and so forth.

This country has come a long, long way in being tolerant of homosexuality. Gays should count their blessings.

I agree, to a point. Yes, there is more tolerance. At the same time, gays are still killed for their sexual orientation; less nowadays, but it continues to happen. I agree with you.

But I recognize there will always be hate and racism. Always.

I disagree with the hate-monger rhetoric of Pat Robertson, but I don't wish death upon him or Teddy (Bear?).

I just wish something more constructive could be brought forth than yet another divisive issue.

[frulad]

Anyone catch Jon Stewart on The Daily Show the other night, effectively shredding any secular arguement Bill Bennett could come up with in support of the Marriage Ammendment? Great stuff.

[Karachi Vyce]

This country has come a long, long way in being tolerant of homosexuality. Gays should count their blessings.

You do know how very insensitive and arrogant this sounds, while we still live in the age of "God hates fags!"

[manwithnoname]

Anyone catch Jon Stewart on The Daily Show the other night, effectively shredding any secular arguement Bill Bennett could come up with in support of the Marriage Ammendment? Great stuff.

I don't have cable. No idea who Bill Bennett is, or what specifically is the Marriage Amendment.

In Washington state (not DC) there's an article similar to what's currently discussed here.

It's not about same-sex marriage, but it's about a gay-civil-rights law passed in Washington state: it is now illegal to "fire someone or deny them housing simply because of their sexual orientation."

Conservative opponents failed to gather enough signatures to force a public vote this fall.

I applaud this gay-civil-rights law because it doesn't give them special rights. It gives equal rights. I'm not for special rights.

[Dr Maturin]

You do know how very insensitive and arrogant this sounds, while we still live in the age of "God hates fags!"

And by the same token, there are neighorbhoods in America where you would get killed simply for being the wrong race. It is not insensitive to state that while we are not wholly rid of bigotry, we have come a long way. Sorry.

[SLerman]

Anyone catch Jon Stewart on The Daily Show the other night, effectively shredding any secular arguement Bill Bennett could come up with in support of the Marriage Ammendment? Great stuff.

Yeah, that was great. My favorite part was when Bennett made the point that in Norway, which allows gay marriage, 80% of first children are born outside marriage. I don't have a biology degree, but I'm fairly certain than two men having sex will not result in one of them becoming pregnant. And even if that were possible, wouldn't allowing them to get married mean that the child would not belong to an unmarried couple? And as much as I hate giving these people any ideas, if the "sancticy of marriage and strength of family" were so important, why aren't they pushing for a constitutional ammendment to ban divorce? The complete lack of simple logic of some people really amazes me sometimes.

Even better, and the Daily Show aired this clip, was Bush talking about how everyone should have the right to live their lives however they choose, then going on to say how there needs to be a ban on gay marriage.

[frulad]

Well, Bennett's info on Norway is wrong. He probably got it from Bill O'Riley.

[Karachi Vyce]

And by the same token, there are neighorbhoods in America where you would get killed simply for being the wrong race. It is not insensitive to state that while we are not wholly rid of bigotry, we have come a long way. Sorry.

Saying that gays should "count their blessings" is the same as saying "be thankful we're not even MORE intolerant and unequal towards you".

Again, since this is a civil rights issue, this is similar to someone down South back in the 60s saying, "Dem niggers oughta count themselves lucky we even let 'em ride in the back of the bus!"