The Rampant, Irresponsible Political Thread

[Dr Maturin]

Well, true economic conservatives will disagree with pork spending and subsidies to industries which do not need them (it helps when said industries donate heavily to Democrats, too...).

But then there are those who will wave the party flag no matter what the party's leaders do. No, Rush Limbaugh isn't one of them. In fact, I've heard more constructive criticism on Bush and the GOP Ledge from Rush than I've heard from anybody else in the media.

Members of the Ledge are the most malleable, because they have to keep their supporters. They become comfortable with their jobs (and who wouldn't?) and want to hold onto them.

But let's not kid ourselves...there are fundamental differences between the parties, so saying that "they both like to spend money" just doesn't qualify as a trait that makes them similar.

Try hard and think of one issue that both sides agree upon. It's a challenge.

[Dr Maturin]

When it comes to JMS...nothing in B5 really offended me. If anything, JMS was a weedsmoking civil libertarian when he wrote the show. It was an agenda pretty much everyone could agree with. But his comic works are slightly right of Karl Marx. One single scene in Rising Stars made me quit what was up until then a great series...of course, I am alluding to the "resolution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Sorry, but that is tripe.

[Jan]

You quit reading a story that you'd been enjoying because of a single plot point? ...Jan asks while gently reminding about being careful of throwing labels around that don't illustrate specific viewpoints. You must really hate being thrown out of your suspension of disbelief, huh?

Jan

[David Panzer]

I'm bi-partisian in that both major political parties in the United States equally suck, and that whatever the government touches it will always fuck it up no matter which party is in the majority or whomever is sitting in the Oval Office

[Radhil]

When it comes to JMS...nothing in B5 really offended me. If anything, JMS was a weedsmoking civil libertarian when he wrote the show. It was an agenda pretty much everyone could agree with. But his comic works are slightly right of Karl Marx. One single scene in Rising Stars made me quit what was up until then a great series...of course, I am alluding to the "resolution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Sorry, but that is tripe.

Agendas? "Resolutions"? Is storytelling nothing but a punchline for you? Why are you even here?

[Heinlein]

When it comes to JMS...nothing in B5 really offended me. If anything, JMS was a weedsmoking civil libertarian when he wrote the show. It was an agenda pretty much everyone could agree with. But his comic works are slightly right of Karl Marx. One single scene in Rising Stars made me quit what was up until then a great series...of course, I am alluding to the "resolution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Sorry, but that is tripe.

Keep in mind though, that what you are reading may or may not be JMS' own point of view. Not everything that is expressed in his work is necessarily what he personally believes. That's one of the things I like about JMS: he can put forth a view that's not necessarily his own, but at the same time he puts it out without trashing the other viewpoint. He and Joss Whedon are the only two writers I've seen that have successfully pulled that off.

[SpooRancher]

I have, from time to time, referred to the goings on in Washington by the two "parties" (whoever came up with that name for political organizations was obviously chemically enhanced at the time, there is nothing fun in those parties), as Professional Political Entertainment, something I took from Vince McMahon and the World Wrestling "Professional Sports Entertainment". It goes much like this.

In professional wrestling, characters are generally divided into two camps, the "faces", that is good guys, and "heels", or bad guys. One or the other stands up, slaps thier chest, says bad things about the other, and then the other stands up, growls, thumps own chest, and says bad things about the first one. They have their wrestling match, visually fun, outcome determined before they even put on the tights, and so, in the end, nothing really changes.

In Professional Political Entertainment, either the Republicans or Democrats one have a bill they want passed. Say the bill is for Educational Reform. The first party gets up, thumps it's chest, says how this bill is the best thing for America. The second party gets up, thumps it's own chest, and says that the bill is the worst thing for America. Then the vote (which may or may not be predetermined, I haven't quite got the handle on that one yet) is taken, and the bill goes down in flames.

After the vote, the second party gets up, thumps it's chest, and says it has an alternative bill, which really IS the best thing for America. The first party thumps it's chest in turn, and then says it is NOT the best thing for America. So, when the vote comes, the bill goes down in flames.

So, in the end analysis on the "critical" issue of education reform, nothing gets done other than having entertained the American people for three or four months.

If a bill gets a clear majority, I start to worry. Seems to me that the last bill that got an overwhelming majority was the PATRIOT Act, and the Gulf of Tonkin resolution (approving the use of troops in Viet Nam) also passed my near-unanimoty.

I would much rather NOTHING was done in Washington than the crap they have been doing the past Century or so.

[David Panzer]

The only thing wrong with your analogy is that there is nothing entertaining in watching Congress work or a reasonable facsimilie thereof. "Reasonable facsimilie" referring to work, though even that's stretching things.

On the other hand, watching British Parliament or the Taiwanese legislature where politicans literally get into fights on the floor are very entertaining

[SpooRancher]

Those political Wonks do think it's entertaining. I don't, but I don't watch wrestling that much, either.

I prefer B5.

[Dr Maturin]

You quit reading a story that you'd been enjoying because of a single plot point? ...Jan asks while gently reminding about being careful of throwing labels around that don't illustrate specific viewpoints. You must really hate being thrown out of your suspension of disbelief, huh?

That's the great thing about America; I can just stop reading it and state my reasons for doing so. Some writers, such as Vince Flynn, will write stories about things which you don't agree with, and that's fine. You don't have to read it.

[Jan]

Oh, agreed. It's just not a choice I'd've made. And rereading, I realized that my comment may have come across as more sarcastic than I meant. Apologies if it did.

Heinlein has a good point, though, that the views in a story don't necessarily reflect JMS's.

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

Oh, agreed. It's just not a choice I'd've made. And rereading, I realized that my comment may have come across as more sarcastic than I meant. Apologies if it did.

Well, Israel is a hot button issue with me, so I just found it to be laughable bordering on offensive, but hey, he can writes what he wants, just like I said.

Heinlein has a good point, though, that the views in a story don't necessarily reflect JMS's.

Do you mean the themes? Because all stories will have characters whose views do not reflect the author's own.

[David Panzer]

I saw nothing wrong with the Israeli-Palestinian scene in Rising Stars. Then again, Israel is a non-button issue with me

[Night Marshal]

My point ZD about Dem and Rep is not so much that they say the same thing or have the same points of view it is more that after they have finished there work we always seem to be moving in the same direction. With Less control of our Lives, more tracking of our dalliy activies, the nation budget getting bigger and bigger. And a Federal Govermerment that gets bigger and bigger. Your right they don't agree but they might as well.

[Heinlein]

My point ZD about Dem and Rep is not so much that they say the same thing or have the same points of view it is more that after they have finished there work we always seem to be moving in the same direction. With Less control of our Lives, more tracking of our dalliy activies, the nation budget getting bigger and bigger. And a Federal Govermerment that gets bigger and bigger. Your right they don't agree but they might as well.

That's a good way of putting it. It's bigger government with less freedoms done by both sides.