The Rampant, Irresponsible Political Thread

[David Panzer]

Perhaps, but you reap what you sow.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Ahem...

USA! USA! USA! USA!

That will be my contribution to this discussion.

[Jonas]

Perhaps, but you reap what you sow.

And you become what you do. That goes for both sides.

[lotjx]

People crying over a mass murder, give me a break. Justice is revenge, anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. A court room doesn't make things better, it just make things look civilized, its an illusion. These man killed thousands of people for no reason and you want to play Law & Order. Equating Obama as a worst person is a bigger lie and yeah people die, its called war. Maybe if the Arab world would have just handed this guy over, there won't be so many dead people. But, no they protected him due to his money and thinking killing innocent people is a great idea, guess what the Arab world is just corrupt as the rest of the planet, shocking. Those are the people you are defending, people who think murder is ok in any circumstances, I am defending people who kill murders when no one else will.

[Jan]

Yeah, but the Good Guys are supposed to adhere to those pesky 'civilized' ways. Otherwise the line gets blurry as to who's good and who's not. We're supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard.

And just as a point of fact, nobody's defended anything about OBL.

Jan

[lotjx]

I am sure those higher standards mean a lot to Al-Qeada's victims and future vicitms if he was allowed to live. He was a bad guy who killed a lot of people and someone shot him in the head while he was using a woman as a shield. What you are saying is you would prefered that we said pretty please with sugar on top while he was probably searching for weapons to kill our troops. When it comes to people like Osama, they have to die pure and simple. Its one of the few times in history we can actually killed one of these guys. I don't know hear Italians lamenting hanging Mosulani, they refer to it as their greatest moment of the modern era.

This is reality not some TV show or book or movie, its killed or be killed out there and morality while nice to have on your side is not going to protect you from suicide bombers, snipers and a man who killed thousands of people looking for any number of weapons to kill you with. I didn't see Sheridan give the Shadow he shot a choice at Z'ha'Dum or Justin who is unarmed in the deleted scene, I didn't see people accusing Obi-Wan of murder when he killed Maul or try Kirk when he killed the Klingons on Star Trek III. Even in our fantasy world, the bad guys are killed in such a fashion and people cheer. The only difference is that it happened in the real world and it will actually affect people's lives instead of being something to pre-occupy our mind.

[Jan]

What you are saying is you would prefered that we said pretty please with sugar on top while he was probably searching for weapons to kill our troops.

No, that's not what I'm saying so don't pretend I did. Remember that I said:

This might have been necessary in the way that putting down a rabid animal is necessary. It was certainly revenge.

I don't have to like the way it was done and I most certainly won't pretend that I find the celebrations tasteful. And if anybody thinks that we're safer now than we were Sunday afternoon, they're deluding themselves.

Jan

[Jonas]

Justice is revenge, anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. A court room doesn't make things better, it just make things look civilized, its an illusion.

So next time someone offends me, I should kill them? Law of the jungle etc.?

These man killed thousands of people for no reason and you want to play Law & Order. Equating Obama as a worst person is a bigger lie and yeah people die, its called war.

Not for no reason. He killed them for revenge. To him it was a war. Where's the difference to what you're saying?

Maybe if the Arab world would have just handed this guy over, there won't be so many dead people.

The Taliban offered to hand him over twice. The United States refused.

I am sure those higher standards mean a lot to Al-Qeada's victims and future vicitms if he was allowed to live.

Yeah, he didn't care about such standards, either. That's why he was willing to kill Americans at any cost.

He was a bad guy who killed a lot of people and someone shot him in the head while he was using a woman as a shield.

...only by now the White House has admitted he was unarmed and there was no human shield.

while he was probably searching for weapons to kill our troops.

He was holed up in his mansion while Al Qaeda was becoming more irrelevant by the day, thanks to the secular revolutions in the Middle East and Africa. Now they're in the news again.

[David Panzer]

And you become what you do. That goes for both sides.

I'm not willing to equate the Navy SEALS with Al-Qaida. Any international terrorist should know that when they commit an act of terror on a nation, especially the US, that nation will respond with deadly force.

[Jonas]

I'm not willing to equate the Navy SEALS with Al-Qaida. Any international terrorist should know that when they commit an act of terror on a nation, especially the US, that nation will respond with deadly force.

And any nation should know that when you do not respect the sovereign rights of others, they will not respect yours. You can't defend democracy without upholding democratic principles.

"You reap what you sow" was Osama's reason for 9/11, after all.

[David Panzer]

But when the country is letting an international terrorist live in a mansion in the Pakistani equivalent of West Point, NY, I'll take a guess that it's "democracy in name only"

[Doom Shepherd]

"You reap what you sow" was Osama's reason for 9/11, after all.

No, that was Jeremiah Wright's. You've confused your loonies.

[Doom Shepherd]

I'll just say this:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy." - Martin Luther King, Jr (actually, probably not MLK, but the sentiment is true)

"Yes, they deserved to die and I hope they burn in hell!" -- Carl Lee Hailey. and the sentiment is ALSO true.

[Doom Shepherd]

Yeah, but the Good Guys are supposed to adhere to those pesky 'civilized' ways. Otherwise the line gets blurry as to who's good and who's not. We're supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard.

I know there are some who would choose "we all die rather than I make this immoral choice, my morality means more to me than my own life and the lives of others."

I am not one of those people.

And if anybody thinks that we're safer now than we were Sunday afternoon, they're deluding themselves.

Well, no, it will take a while to analyze the huge amount of data on the computers and hard drives and portable drives the SEALs also siezed in the raid, and then kill all the people on THOSE lists.

After that, +safety.

[Jan]

I know there are some who would choose "we all die rather than I make this immoral choice, my morality means more to me than my own life and the lives of others."

I am not one of those people.

Well at least you're admitting that is was an immoral choice, Doom Shepherd. Most of the people I've read or listened to can't see that it may have been necessary but there's no way in hell it was right.

Well, no, it will take a while to analyze the huge amount of data on the computers and hard drives and portable drives the SEALs also siezed in the raid, and then kill all the people on THOSE lists.

After that, +safety.

Certainly. And I suppose that we won't have to practically strip naked to fly on an airplane anymore, right? That's delusional. There are people in power who must be positively salivating to observe the bullshit that people will put up with in the name of some illusion of safety and there's no way they'll stop pushing and telling us what to be afraid of.

Enough...I never should've gotten into this except for somebody posting a mocking song as though it were a song praising the USA. Perhaps if they had listened to the entire thing...

Jan

PS: DS, you don't need to reply individually to each post - and shouldn't. There's a multi-quote button on each post that you press and then click on 'Post Reply' and all of them will be in the reply message.