The Rampant, Irresponsible Political Thread

[David Panzer]

Glad I voted for Christopher Walken back in November

[I love Lyta]

"When you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy!"

Hehe, just in line with that asessment, here is proof (well, kind of )
Go to time index 3:50.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=228039

[Dr Maturin]

For all of Cheney's "evil," his comment that Obama's vow to close Gitmo was done without a plan or thought was dead on. And now, it has been confirmed by the venerable Vice President (whose perceived "stupidity" far surpasses Bush's):

"But, look, what the president said is that this is going to be hard. It's like opening Pandora's Box. We don't know what's inside the box."

And:

"...to the best of my knowledge" the number of prisoners "who are a real danger who are not able to returned or tried" has "not been established..."

Of course, this will all be excused by claiming that it's just another "inherited" problem.

[Der Mike]

I am impressed with how Obama has managed to stop the practice of Americans torturing terrorists for info.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/world/24intel.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

We now just lead OTHER countries to the terrorists and let THEM torture them.

I guess that is change.

[I love Lyta]

Speaking of (Domestic) Terrorism:

[snip]Dr. George Tiller, who remained one of the nation's few providers of late-term abortions despite decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher.
...
A protester shot Tiller in both arms in 1993, and his clinic was bombed in 1985. [/snip]

Anyone in favor of torturing THOSE perps?!

[Dr Maturin]

Speaking of (Domestic) Terrorism:

Quote:
[snip]Dr. George Tiller, who remained one of the nation's few providers of late-term abortions despite decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher.
...
A protester shot Tiller in both arms in 1993, and his clinic was bombed in 1985. [/snip]
Anyone in favor of torturing THOSE perps?!

I am not in favor of torturing anybody. Enhanced interrogation is used to obtain information. No information is really needed in this case that can't be obtained from questioning and investigating.

This is a murder case. The perpetrator will be tried, convicted and sentenced.

However, the following is a story that the mainstream media is largely ignoring in favor of the above:

ARKANSAS

Soldier is slain, another wounded

A man with "political and religious motives" killed a soldier just out of basic training and wounded another in a targeted attack on a Little Rock military recruiting center, police said.

Police said the suspect, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, 23, told them that he saw two soldiers in uniform, drove up to the recruiting center and started shooting.

[...]

Muhammad would be charged with capital murder, plus 16 counts of committing a terrorist act, he said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...,5372968.story

He recently traveled to Yemen and studied under a radical scholar.

[I love Lyta]

First off I was just being a bit sarcastic there.
Secondly: "Enhanced interrogation" - now THAT'S a nice circumscription...

16 counts of terrorism?! Why 16?!
And I'm wondering whether or not the guy who killed Tiller will also be charged with terrorism, since IMO there 's no difference between killing a soldier and a doctor. Especially since it was explicitly stated that Muhammad is NOT a member of a terrorist group or a conspiracy, and Tiller's killer's motives were obviously highly religious.
Speaking of motives: How can they say Muhammad had political motives? On what do they base this assertion? Especially if a few sentences further down the line they also state that he isn't a member of a terrorist group or a conspiracy? They're basically contradicting themselves there.

[Doom Shepherd]

Especially since it was explicitly stated that Muhammad is NOT a member of a terrorist group or a conspiracy.

The Police Chief of Little Rock said that. The FBI and CIA may likely believe otherwise, since the FBI was already investigating him, and the CIA is now.

More.

And now, officials say, the FBI and the CIA are engaged in an intense effort to reconstruct Muhammad's path to extremism -- and allegedly to murder -- taking apart his life, examining his friendships, educational records, travel within the United States and possible contacts with extremists overseas.

According to court records, during his interview with police, Muhammad stated "that he recently viewed a video pertaining to subversive activities which spurred him to commit this act."

Where'd he get the video?

[I love Lyta]

the FBI and the CIA are engaged in an intense effort to reconstruct Muhammad's path to extremism

And if they don't find what they're looking for the FBI and the CIA will be engaged in an intense effort to construct Muhammad's path to extremism.

Seriously though, does anyone understand why 16 counts of terrorism? Honestly. I don't get how they come by this number...

[Jan]

Seriously though, does anyone understand why 16 counts of terrorism? Honestly. I don't get how they come by this number...

At a guess, it may have had to do with the 'small arsenal' in his possession?

BTW, I'd say I've seen about equal amounts of coverage of the two stories, Dr Maturin.

I'm just waiting for the 'mucker' term to begin to be common. That's the word John Brunner used to describe the people in his books that snapped and went on killing rampages.

Jan

[Der Mike]

Jan, can't agree.

As was pointed out by Newsbusters:
On Google News, there were over 7000 references to Tiller.
There were about 500 references to William Long.

It's getting appreciably worse as time goes on.

[Karachi Vyce]

First off I was just being a bit sarcastic there.
Secondly: "Enhanced interrogation" - now THAT'S a nice circumscription...

16 counts of terrorism?! Why 16?!
And I'm wondering whether or not the guy who killed Tiller will also be charged with terrorism, since IMO there 's no difference between killing a soldier and a doctor. Especially since it was explicitly stated that Muhammad is NOT a member of a terrorist group or a conspiracy, and Tiller's killer's motives were obviously highly religious.
Speaking of motives: How can they say Muhammad had political motives? On what do they base this assertion? Especially if a few sentences further down the line they also state that he isn't a member of a terrorist group or a conspiracy? They're basically contradicting themselves there.

Are you kidding me?

You're really going to argue that there wasn't religious motivations here? Bledsoe - excuse me, "Abdul Hakim Mujahid Muhammad" - was under federal investigation by the FBI's Joint Terrorist Task Force, was a Muslim convert, and was freshly back from Yemen, having studied jihad with a radical cleric there.

And when captured by the police, he admitted that he did the crime "because of what they (American soldiers) had done to Muslims in the past." To which he followed up that gem with a statement about how "he would have killed more soldiers had they been in the parking lot."

How much clearer do you want it to be? This was a RELIGIOUS motivated killing. Every bit as much as Tiller's death was. And an act of domestic terrorism against our soldiers here on home soil.

And no one should be surprised that the Tiller story got more press. Not just because abortion is such a hot-button issue, becaust TERRORISM is a hot-button issue as well. It's because, quite simply, the press doesn't want to report on a story like this one because it "doesn't fit the narrative." It portrays a couple different ethnic / cultural groups in this country in a negative light, and that's not exactly as desirable a story for many in the media as the Tiller story, which is a "nice" little story wherein they can portray the entire pro-life movement as bloodthirsty philistines who either wanted a man like Tiller dead or don't care about his assassination (and they do so, curiously, at a point in time when a majority of Americans now identify themselves as pro-life.

Conservative blogger Pam Meister sums it up appropriately, I think:

Since it has suddenly become trendy to publicly support our troops now that a liberal is in the White House, one might wonder why the shooting of two members of our fine military is being treated as any other run-of-the-mill news story, dwarfed by continued hyperventilating coverage of the marital problems of reality TV stars Jon and Kate Gosselin and Susan Boyle coming in second in the Britain’s Got Talent finale. Yet the reason may be simpler than we think: the suspect is a Muslim and, dare I say, black. In today’s multicultural, Balkanized, ultra sensitive society, this gives him double minority victim status and thus he escapes the kind of scrutiny normally given in heinous circumstances such as these.

[Jan]

I'm not going to argue; I don't care enough to do the research myself so I'll accept your figure. So the question is, why?

Could it perhaps have something to do with the fact we have a proposed Supreme Court Justice beginning the grilling process and abortion is almost certainly going to be one of the topics? Could it also partly be because of the timing, with Obama having commented about it recently?

'Fraid I don't see anything more sinister than that. What's popular is what gets the press because that's what gets people looking at the pages with the ads. There's nothing linking the soldiers being gunned down to any other 'hot' story this week and, sad to say, nuts opening fire on people for whatever reason is simply becoming too commonplace.

Jan

[I love Lyta]

Are you kidding me?
You're really going to argue that there wasn't religious motivations here?
... This was a RELIGIOUS motivated killing.

Let me quote myself here since you obviously have misread something.
"How can they say Muhammad had political motives?"
I never doubted ANY religious motivation! Based on the Chicago Tribune article Dr. M posted I was wondering how they could make an assertion concerning political motives since in said article it was explicitly stated that he was not a member of any group or conspiracy.
But now that additional sources have been provided which basically state that there WAS some kind of political motivation to his deed as well that question is already answered.

And in other news:

http://blog.taragana.com/n/new-york-robbery-victim-consoles-thief-71503

[snip]After an attempted robbery of a store near New York City, the owner showed generous mercy instead of calling the police. ... “He started begging,” Mohammad Sohail, the store owner, told television crews. The thief said “I got no money, my family is hungry,” Sohail said.
Sohail gave the thief bread and $40. [/snip]

[WorkerCaste]

I've never been able to figure out why news items get the coverage they do. It seems like similar stories can get vastly different coverage based on what catches the public's interest, and figuring out the public's ineterest is far beyond me. I do think, though, in this case part of the difference may well be the more singular nature of Dr. Tillman within the issues. While both issues, abortion and terrorism, are important to the public, the death of Dr. Tillman will have more effect than the death of William Long and wounding of Quinton Ezeagwula. Tillman represented one of the only sources for late-term abortions in this country. As tragic and wrong as the death of Long is, even among the subset of recruiters, he is one of many. The death of Tillman diminishes (nearly eliminates) the choices for those needing his services and will likely have a chilling effect on replacing him. The death of Long will not appreciably diminishes the choices for people looking to enlist, and likely won't impact the availability of recruiters in the future. Another factor is likely that Tillman was a very specific target and Long was a target of opportunity. There is a history to Tillman including bombs, protests and legal actions, and for many on both sides he was already known. This is the climax of a story covering many years. That's true of the issues, too. While true that both abortion and terrorism are hot button topics, there is a much longer and deeper history (at least in our country) to the abortion debate. Finally, just as a nod to human nature, the irony of murdering Tiller in church makes good press. Good or bad, right or wrong, people respond more to stories with twists like that.