Star Trek's Sulu comes out of the closet

[Night Marshal]

thats not what the PC crowd tells me. Are you Saying ZD that whats PC is in fact not true. oh where in my moral compass now.

[B5sweepsfan]

I was out of time last night and could not elaborate on my original post.

I love George Takei...

I was a severely geekaifed teenager and was a huge Trekker. I went to about 4 conventions before I was 18. I have been to cons with him and he is super. He is gracious and appreciative and invites everyone to come jogging with him!! Of course, this was the early 80's, but I'm sure that he is still in great shape. I think he totally got ripped off when they didn't give him his own show...he would have been great! Mr. Takei is a gentleman, a gifted actor,and a wonderful person. Everything else is footnotes.

Shatner....(deep sigh of disgust)...could do absolutely nothing at this point to win any fans. I think he has alienated most of them. I TOTALLY agree with Night Marshall when it was stated the more they know about him, the less you like him. I can't stand him. I haven't heard a good thing about him since the original show ended.

It galls me to no end that he parlayed his ST fame into a pseudocareer....and is such an *sshole. The rest of the cast got a raw deal, and as far as I have seen and heard are great to their fans.

At the tender age of 14, I got to shake the hand of the Great Bird of the Universe and hear him lecture...it was great.

B5 is the best...but might have never been if Star Trek didn't pave the way.

[vacantlook]

It's a shame that people seem to think that that kind of thing still matters anymore, I mean...HEADLINE NEWS???! Sensationalism or what?

It does still matter because despite what a nice number of people feel and think about homosexuality, the vast majority of people in this world still absolutely hate gay people. Studies after studies reveal how there is an insane quantity of harassment of gay kids in school here in the US. Additionally, gay people have an incredibly high rate of having attempted suicide. It all comes down to the fact that despite some relatively decent people in this world, most of society does not accept the existence of gay people. Being a gay person is a tough thing knowing that. Being afraid of letting people know you're attracted to the same sex. Being afraid you're going to be harassed or attacked for something you can't control (no one can control to whom they are attracted). Being made to feel that something is wrong with you, that God hates you and that you inherently deserve to be burning in Hell having pain after pain after pain inflicted upon you for eternity. There are still an incredible number of gay people that are afraid of being gay and of letting people know that they are. For celebrities to come out of the closet is an act of courage, and it provides all the "regular," if you will, gay people with role models. It gives us people to look up to to see that we're not alone because despite knowing that other gay people exist doesn't in any way translate into knowing other gay people in one's real life, and it doesn't translate into accepting one's own self. But having good, quality, strong role models is a vast help. So, yes, it does very much indeed matter.

[Dr Maturin]

"The ACLU is now helping to overturn a Mississippi state law that prohibits homosexual couples in that state from adopting children and I believe that is a fair-minded cause. But you know folks, while I'm not an expert on the subject, if you're gay and you've chosen to set up shop in Mississippi...well even I'm reasonably sure that you're not equipped to adopt children."-Dennis Miller

You'd be surprised how accepting people are outside of places like Virginia, VL...

And there is a difference between tolerance and acceptance. Most Americans are highly tolerant of gays. Accepting, however, is another matter. But that's well within their rights. We don't make people like each other.

I haven't checked any sites yet, but VL is right in that the gay community is probably embracing something like this.

[vacantlook]

You'd be surprised how accepting people are outside of places like Virginia, VL...

Accepting like the high school students from Michigan discussed in this article?

About a dozen students stood across the street from the school, wearing anti-gay sweatshirts and waving signs such as "God Rained Fire Upon Sodom."

They protested because they see something like a National Day Of Silence as an act of gay people "parad[ing] around and show[ing] off their sexuality," despite that that's not what happens. Gay people showing off their sexuality would be gay people standing around sucking face, or hell, even something as simple as holding hands: you know the shit that straight people do all the time and barely even think about the fact that they're doing it in public. The National Day Of Silence is about the existance of gay people, not about sexual demonstrations. But too damned many people seem to be unable to think anything other than gay people = anal sex. So, instead we get so many people who like to take every opportunity available to tell us that God should obliterate us. When you hear stuff like that day in and day out, it makes it rough in a wide variety of ways, like the one that's quoted in the article that I hadn't heard before: "It's about the problem of four out of five LGBT students who are routinely harassed in schools. It's about the problem of students who are harassed and bullied being two-and-a-half times more likely not to go to college." And when you get time and again demonstrations about how you should be excluded in this country it wears you down. Straight people don't have to worry about things like the President of the damned country suggesting an amendment to the country's constitution that would bar them from being able to marry the person they loved. Straight people don't get beaten to DEATH in this country solely for the sake that they're straight.

This isn't some podunk backwater Virginia issue. It's a whole fucking country issue.

In this article, we get a good example of how most people would react:

Star Trek fans, such as Martha Fischer, have posted their feelings on the Internet.

"I have to admit that when I read this story I actually experienced a sharp intake of breath, accompanied by a hand raised to my mouth. Yes, it was a horrifyingly stereotypical female reaction of shock," she wrote on cinematical.com. "George Takei? Gay? Holy crap!"

The person then goes on to say more power to Takei for his act of courage. Support. But the shock was still there even for someone who supports him. Why the shock? Because in this country, being straight is nearly always the default sexuality of a person (unless a person behaves rather exceptionally flamboyant). I think to the scene in Buffy The Vampire Slayer when Willow finally tells Buffy that she's in a relationship with Tara. Despite Buffy not having a problem with gay people being gay people, she's still initially uncomfortable with it being someone she knows. People are always going to react differently to the idea of it when it's someone they know. And there are a whole hell of a lot of people in this country that don't directly know gay people, so celebrities revealing it about themselves is one way that some people are going to be able to realize that gay people aren't just some "other" group out there that doesn't directly exist in their lives.

[Dr Maturin]

Like it or not, homosexuality is a deviant lifestyle. People are surprised. Get over it. It doesn't mean they hate you. And to be honest, I'm guessing that 90% of the people who promote the "God hates fags" stuff are doing it just to get a reaction. Of course, there are kooks who really believe it.

And most of your little diatribe was highly polarizing rhetoric, VL. The day of silence is also polarizing. It provokes peoeple who may not approve of the gay lifestyle, but are willing to let it be.

And the federal government shouldn't pass such a law. That's up to the states. I live in a state where a definition of marriage act was passed. It's all about law. The fact is, gay people aren't forbidden from getting married anywhere. They have the same rights to get married as anybody else does...if the person they marry is of the opposite sex. Allowing for same sex marriage would be a special rights issue.

[David Panzer]

Inter-racial relationships were at one time considered a deviant lifestyle. I'm not making a comparison of skin color and sexual attraction, but in some areas both are still considered deviant lifestyles.

At the end of the day, but beginning of mine, what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom is none of my business. If a couple holds hands, I honestly don't care, as long as the couple isn't doing a re-enactment of the "Thrilla in Manilla".

[Jan]

Allowing for same sex marriage would be a special rights issue.

Actually, by my definition of equality, the only true definition of marriage should be that it be between two living people. Anything else is specifying special rights for somebody.

Why would allowing same sex marriage be special rights rather than removing artificial restrictions? Sort of like eliminating segregation did?

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

I don't give a rat's ass, either. Hell, I like to engage in some anal sex myself, so yay for sodomy laws being thrown out!

[vacantlook]

Get over it.

No.

It provokes peoeple who may not approve of the gay lifestyle, but are willing to let it be.

What the fuck is the "gay lifestyle." I've asked so many people who throw that term around as if it's a scientifically provable phenomenon to define it, but they don't. Do all straight people live a "straight lifestyle"? What's the definition of a "straight lifestyle"? Do all gay people live a "gay lifestyle"? If all gay people don't do it, then it can't be a lifestyle that receives its definition based on how gay people live.

They have the same rights to get married as anybody else does...if the person they marry is of the opposite sex. Allowing for same sex marriage would be a special rights issue.

Let's see you be forbidden by the government of this country from marrying the person that you love, and then here you support the government forbidding you from marrying and hear you call that your wanting to marry the person you love a "special right". It's not, it's an equal rights issue and the ONLY reason someone could want it to call it a special right is because they want people to be prevented from receiving the same legally granted benefits that straight people can get from marrying the person they love. THEY are the one who want to be special.



And here's some more it's not podunk backwater Virginia information.

New York City Schools Hostile To Gays Study Says

New York City. Probably one of the most liberal cities in this country. Definitely not podunk Virginia. And it happens there, with considerable frequency.

Among the instances cited in the study, a male student boy threw a gasoline-soaked paper ball at another student perceived to be lesbian. When she caught the paper ball the boy ignited it. In another case a transgender student was illegally suspended for wearing make-up.

Let's set a gasoline-soaked ball on fire while it's in your hands because someone merely suspects you to be gay, and see how tolerated you feel. A person doesn't purposefully get nearly set on fire by an act that's not spawned from hatred.

The New York study closely parallels a national survey released early this month to coincide with National Coming Out Day.

A national survey: that means across the country. It's not isolated. It's the standard. It's the rule against which occurances are measured. Gay people are not tolerated by the majority of people in this country.

Gay Club Advisor 'Harassed Into Resigning' Teaching Job

Here in California (yet again, not podunk Virginia) a teacher whose dedicated eleven years of her life to her profession was harrassed so much for being the faculty advisor of a Gay-Straight Alliance club for students that she resigned. People don't harass a person out of their job unless motivated by hatred.

Gays Tell Of Harassment Horrors

Here in Maine (yet again, not podunk Virginia), we get stories of harassment.

Martin Ripley of Whitefield told reporters that he was harassed and let go from a job in Portland simply because people suspected he was gay.

George O'Brien of Newcastle said when he came out publicly that he was gay, he was threatened on the job and told that he might be found "floating in the river." After he quit, he was harassed and let go from his next two jobs because of his sexual orientation, he said.

Adam Flanders of Belfast, who graduated from high school last spring, said he was hassled in high school and suspended for wearing a T-shirt that said, "It's OK to be gay." "People felt free to be hostile toward me just because I was gay," he said.

Hatred of gay people widespread. It exists. And dismissal of it due to not wanting to deal with its existance does not make it go away, it continues it.

And most of your little diatribe was highly polarizing rhetoric, VL.

Oh, and by the way, I'm sorry that my freaking EXISTANCE is polarizing. If it's so damned polarizing, I guess that this fabulous nearly everyone tolerates gay people belief is nothing but an illusion of yours. I'm glad you can so easily dismiss my LIFE as rhetoric. You're definitely overflowing with tolerance.

[Dr Maturin]

You're getting angry, VL.

It's polarizing because it's like you're jumping out in front of a truck and going "I'm standing here!" You're gay. So what? Shut up about it. No one is advocating banning gay people.

That article you posted looks like it promotes "hate laws," which are a really stupid idea. If I get into a fight with an a person of Asian descent -- hell, let's make him a gay person of Asian descent -- at a bar because he's an asshole and I kick his ass, should I be charged with a hate crime? That kind of stuff sails into murky waters.

And marriage is about acceptance. Why do you so badly need to be accepted by others? Be an individual. One of my gay friends at work lives with his man and doesn't care whether or not he can get married, because he recognizes that getting the approval of others doesn't change the dynamics of his relationship. It'd be like a straight person marrying their boyfriend/girlfriend to appease a nosy mother.

[David Panzer]

Whose mother? His or the woman's?

[Jan]

And marriage is about acceptance. Why do you so badly need to be accepted by others?

Nope. Marriage conveys distinct legal rights. It's not just about acceptance it's (just to name one item) about having the right to have your life partner automatically your next of kin. Even leaving religion completely out of the equation, marriage is a legal and social contract, not just a social sanctioning of sexual relations.

Jan

[vacantlook]

You're getting angry, VL.

God, you're perceptive.

It's polarizing because it's like you're jumping out in front of a truck and going "I'm standing here!" You're gay. So what? Shut up about it.

No, I won't shut up. Shutting up is exactly the problem. Gay people exist. Too many people in this country, including you it would seem, want gay people to fade into the background. Don't be a problem, don't cause a ruckuss, fade away. Mean nothing. Go away, don't bother me.

Sorry that people being shat upon by society and the governemnt and those people having a problem with it is such an annoyance to you.

...should I be charged with a hate crime?

If you call him a fag when you beat on him, yes, you should be charged with a hate crime.

And marriage is about acceptance. Why do you so badly need to be accepted by others?

In this country, the government grants legal privileges to people who are married. Straight people never have to face the issue that they can be with the person they love and be refused these privileges. With the current exception of Massachusetts, gay people in the country cannot be with the person they love and receive those privileges. It's not about you accepting me, it's not about other people approving of the relationship, it's about the GOVERNMENT granting legal privileges to some people and not to others out of discrimination.

[David Panzer]

I found this video which is unintentionally hilarious. It's called "Boys Beware" which was made in 1961, and probably shown in schools.

"What Jimmy didn't know was that Ralph was sick. A sickness that was not like smallpox but no less dangerous and contagious. A sickness of the mind known as homosexuality."

With lines like that, you can't help but laugh and say, how the hell was this shown as fact?!

Edit- forgot the damn link. Here it be. Boys Beware