Star Wars

[Laiden]

The problem with Londo, was that he never intended to be "Evil" nor did he become it through any fault of his own, he didnt "turn", he was another "victim of mathematics" it wasn't his choice for most of the things that happened to occur, and everything else that had happened, did so without him realizing it was his fault. every action he took to end his relationship with Mr. Morden and the shadows was led with another action to bring him back.

When he became a snotty and what would seem "bitter" or "mad" Emperor, he had to, in order to save his world. G'Kar saw that something was up and understood his situation. so Londo was never evil, just a victim.

"You don't have to respond in kind."
"Of course we do. There's a natural law. Physics tells us that for every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction. They hate us, we hate them, they hate us back. And so, here we are: victims of mathematics."
~Sinclair and Londo in Babylon 5:"A Voice in the Wilderness #1"

[rallytbk]

Now it may just be me.... but I felt that the moment actually occurred when Palatine lies to him about having killed his wife...

I guess what I was looking for was AnakinÆs the final nail/the last straw kind of thing that turned Anakin to the dark side, something like: Padme would die, then in anger Anakin would turn to the dark side and curses the galaxy for (fill in blank reason to be evil) failing him.

Babylon 5: LondoÆs rage scene was a wonderful example of how a person loyal to his worldÆs security (and pride) got caught up in the Shadow War, wanted to get out and pulled back in, because of circumstances designed by another person, namely Mr. Morden. This sequence of events is classic of the cause and effects people go through when either becoming evil or life altering changes.

Just my 2 cents.

I was just disappointed with AnakinÆs turn to the dark side. JMS spoiled me in this regard.

[Laiden]

I felt the whole situation took time. time in which they did not have, but it felt to me as if it was a "deal with the devil" sort of thing . . .

[DGTWoodward]

All I could think about at the pivotal point in the movie that turned Anakin to the dark side. What the Hell was that? No rage scene, no flash backs to his mom and/or his greatest fears. Nothing! He just took the better deal.

Now it may just be me....but I felt that the moment actually occured when Palatine lies to him about having killed his wife. We know he hasn't, but he doesn't know, and this final burst of rage is what finally pushes him over the edge...as can be judged by Palpatine's final triumphant smile. It would seem to fit that the final surge of rage is one directed totally at himself and it dovetails nicely into Vader, later on, seeing the hope of turning away from this darkness inside himself and back to right side, through his son Luke, the last true Jedi of the old order of things.

[rallytbk]

Oops, I meant to post this on SAaB thread, But it does apply here too. LOL

Sorry.

[Dr Maturin]

somehow my thoughts were magically transported to the Star Wars thread and not the SAaB thread . . . how odd

As were mine...

[Laiden]

somehow my thoughts were magically transported to the Star Wars thread and not the SAaB thread . . . how odd

[rallytbk]

It's a sorry state of affairs when Sci Fi can't be bothered to show the caucians aren't the only ones in the future.

Funny you should say thatà for many years I have discussed this problem with friends. Note: The cartoon ôJetsonsö shows the future in which life is so easy and futuristic that their jobs can be accomplished with a push of a button. Notice any blacks or Hispanics?

that can be said about MANY sci-fi shows . . . I dont really feel like listing them all

ThatÆs why I love Babylon 5, Dr. Stephen Franklin said it best in this episode:

"What else have I missed?"
"Oh. The usual. The good times, and the bad times, the revelations, the revolutions. Outbreaks of hysteria, the parade of scandals, promises, constitutions, and the occasional war. The last big ones were against the Dilgar, which we won, and against the Minbari, which.. Well, that's a long story."
Mariah Cirrus and Dr. Franklin, The Long Dark

Star Trek is to clean cut for me and it is enlightening to see characters on Babylon 5 with so many faults.

Affirmative action in sci-fi casting...now I've seen it all.

Hey, I am all for Affirmative actionà I nearly died when I saw Capt. Montoya on Babylon 5. LOL while he only lasted on one or two episodes it expanded my thoughts about future tv shows.

[Harrdy]

Just asking your opinion, donÆt you think movies today have lowered themselves in plot, character development and plain old sense?

I am sure of that... but... I also found out that a *lot* of good movies are right below the surface. No advertisments, no TV Prime time. An example was "Stratosphere Girl" for me, I NEVER heard of the movie, saw absolutely no nothing of it. I saw it on a list of films and thought to myself: Well, maybe another comic adaption (I was at that time into that stuff, Spiderman was just so nice for me *g*), so I aquired the movie and watched... no, it was no comic adaption, no *comic* adaption, maybe a manga adaption. It was right in between what "Lost in Translation" could have been and had a David Lynch Type of dreamworld feeling. I loved it, I urge every friend of mine to watch it. Most of them say they like it, but then again, it could be that my urge is so threatening 8o)

Anyway, I think there are a lot of good movies, but sadly most of them not hollywood blockbusters and therefore lost (to me). So yes, independent and small productions can be superb, but how to find them?!

PeAcE

[rallytbk]

<groans>
After the writing quality (or should I say, lack thereof) in the last three movies, I was really hoping that franchise would wither on the vine. But, alas, we are going to be subjected to more of it.

I agree, this year was nothing, but disappointmentsà The one movie that I expected some kind of excitement out of it (the PG-13 rating screwed me) was Star Wars: Episode 3; and that killed it for me. I will not go to another movie theater and spend my money ever again (Serenity being the only exception of course).

All I could think about at the pivotal point in the movie that turned Anakin to the dark side. What the Hell was that? No rage scene, no flash backs to his mom and/or his greatest fears. Nothing! He just took the better deal.

Londo did a better job of it when he found out Mr. Morden was responsible for Adira death, LondoÆs rage scene was the best I have ever seen in a Movie and TV show. All the pieces fit together and I was happy with that arc.

Why canÆt writers write a decent story with a good outcome???

Just asking your opinion, donÆt you think movies today have lowered themselves in plot, character development and plain old sense?

Lucas writes mediocre (at best) stories, such as Star Wars and THX-1138 and gets a lifetime grant to deliver whatever he wants. JMS and Joss Wedon write really compelling stories that fit together, don't contradict themselves, and appeal to intelligent fans, and can barely get work.

<channels Jubal Early> Does that seem right to you

You pay your money and you take your chancesà it doesnÆt surprise me that it will take another 20 years before the current high priced actors and directors die off and leave things to real people. Indie films and fan flicks are filling a need that the establishment wonÆt meet and I am all for getting rid of the establishment.

[Ranger1]

Epsiode III DVD is already on my pre-order on amazon...great flick.

[vacantlook]

Good for you. You're not being subjected to it though if you choose to let it be one of the other thousands of things on television that you don't watch.

[SpooRancher]

By the sound of it I'd say he's already made that choice.

That would be correct. Won't even be buying episodes 1-3 on DVD.

[Radhil]

By the sound of it I'd say he's already made that choice.

[vacantlook]

But, alas, we are going to be subjected to more of it.

You could chose to not watch it.