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Thoughts After Seeing The Last Jedi (Spoiler Free)

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  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
    Either way, there is NOTHING more true to the Star Wars legacy than putting things in movies to sell product.

    Leave a comment:


  • sarthaz
    replied
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    You've got a point! Happy New Year!
    And to you as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
    There is NOTHING more true to the Star Wars legacy than putting things in movies to sell product.
    You've got a point! Happy New Year!

    Leave a comment:


  • sarthaz
    replied
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    I don't love it and I don't buy it. And neither does Mark Hamill, or at least he didn't until Disney leaned on him.
    I don't buy this for a second. Hamill doesn't shill. His reactions -- from not liking the way they wrote Luke in the beginning to ultimately appreciating the final product -- are honest. That's just who he is. He says what he thinks and doesn't GAF what you or Disney think about it.

    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    His role in the film was insignificant IMO. His role was two-fold: 1.) provide fan service and 2.) sell product. Hey, it glows in the dark and costs only $18.99.
    Have to agree to disagree on this. I found his role to be powerful and the catalyst for Luke's growth. Either way, there is NOTHING more true to the Star Wars legacy than putting things in movies to sell product.

    Leave a comment:


  • sarthaz
    replied
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    I removed your spoiler tags because I don't think there was one. I had a completely different interpretation of this. While I believed that Rose loved Finn, I never thought that Finn loved her back or had given up on a relationship with Rey. Something about that huge hug Finn gave Rey said to me, "Thank goodness you're back, I've been spending far too much time with Rose!" I did get the sense the filmmakers were trying to set up a love triangle, but it fell flat for me.
    The moment on the Falcon where Rey looks over and sees Finn doting over Rose sealed it.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
    For a fleeting moment. I don't love this aspect of the story, but they made it clear that it was a very brief -- if ill-timed -- moment of weakness.
    I don't love it and I don't buy it. And neither does Mark Hamill, or at least he didn't until Disney leaned on him.

    Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
    Yoda is a Force Ghost
    , so his powers are limited.
    Yoda's
    role in this film
    (as a ghost) is enormous.
    His role in the film was insignificant IMO. His role was two-fold: 1.) provide fan service and 2.) sell product. Hey, it glows in the dark and costs only $18.99.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
    I didn't like this subplot, but it had a number of consequences:

    3) It creates a legitimate opportunity for Finn and Rose to fall in love.

    4) It sets the stage for Rose to deliver the ultimate theme of the film: the way to beat back the darkness isn't by killing what you hate; it's about saving that which you love. You can't have any of that, or that adorable moment where Rey realizes that Finn has moved on, if you don't send them off somewhere to do their own thing.
    I removed your spoiler tags because I don't think there was one. I had a completely different interpretation of this. While I believed that Rose loved Finn, I never thought that Finn loved her back or had given up on a relationship with Rey. Something about that huge hug Finn gave Rey said to me, "Thank goodness you're back, I've been spending far too much time with Rose!" I did get the sense the filmmakers were trying to set up a love triangle, but it fell flat for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • sarthaz
    replied
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    The whole subplot on the casino planet was another of my beefs with the movie. The movie was two and a half hours long, and this 30 minute subplot was completely superfluous. Finn and Rose failed, they accomplished nothing, and their actions had no impact on the story whatsoever. I've heard that setting was created mostly for inclusion in the Star Wars-themed lands at Disney Parks set to open in 2019, and it wouldn't surprise me if that were true.
    I didn't like this subplot, but it had a number of consequences:

    1) It grew Finn's character even more. He had grown from complete self-interest to self-interest+Rey, but it wasn't until his trip to Casino Town and his interactions with Latin Lando that he began to understand the full picture and start to become the hero Rose thought he was when they met

    2) It's supposed to be a failure. One of the major themes of this film is learning from our failures.

    3) It creates a legitimate opportunity for
    Finn and Rose to fall in love
    . Unlike the garbage prequels that just expected us to buy that Padme would ever waste her time with a douchebag like Anakin, we're given a more realistic story with realistic outcomes

    4) It sets the stage for Rose to deliver the ultimate theme of the film: the way to beat back the darkness isn't by killing what you hate; it's about saving that which you love. You can't have any of that, or that adorable moment where Rey realizes that Finn has moved on, if you don't send them off somewhere to do their own thing.

    5) It builds the "children are the future" story, which is certain to be a focal point of the next film. The Rebel Alliance are defeated. They're a handful of survivors in a cave. But the spark of hope created by their actions is what will save the galaxy, not self-important Jedi with glowing swords.

    I didn't love the execution, and I could certainly do without the camel chase, but it was not superfluous.

    Leave a comment:


  • sarthaz
    replied
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    Luke Skywalker, the guy who saved his father Darth Vader, who at that point seemed to be irredeemably evil, decides to...
    kill his own nephew, the child of his sister and his best friend, because he saw the dark side in him
    .
    For a fleeting moment. I don't love this aspect of the story, but they made it clear that it was a very brief -- if ill-timed -- moment of weakness.

    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    The filmmakers bring back
    Yoda
    ! Does he do anything meaningful, help in the final battle? No! Which means in the final analysis, Admiral Longneck, who was generally incompetent, and only got her position due to the fact everyone above her in the chain of command was either dead or incapacitated, got to be a bigger hero than f-ing
    Yoda
    !
    I don't know about that.
    Yoda is a Force Ghost, so his powers are limited, but the hero of the film is Luke. Luke grows and learns and finally makes the ultimate sacrifice in an awe-inspiring display of Jedi prowess, but that doesn't happen without Yoda's counsel. Luke knows the tree and texts should burn, but he can't bring himself to do it. It's Yoda, the wisest of all the Jedi, who makes it happen -- giving Luke permission to go where his heart knows it should go: the Jedi need to end. He also reminds Luke of the most important lessons of this film: 1) the students outgrow the teachers and 2) there is no better teacher than failure. Yoda's role in this film (as a ghost) is enormous.


    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    And what about that epic...
    light saber duel between Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker
    ? Oh, that's right - there wasn't one! If they were going to have Luke...
    die anyway
    , why not have...
    him be there in person and have a epic duel like Vader's and Obi-Wan's in the original
    .
    I found Luke's deception of Ren far more compelling than another silly lightsaber duel. His goal was to buy time for escape. Ren didn't decide to fight him until launching ALL OF HIS WEAPONRY on the fake Luke.
    I thought it was badass and the best sendoff possible for an iconic character. You'd rather him lose a lightsaber battle to Darth Emo?


    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    And don't get me started on...
    Superman Leia
    !
    Yeah, that sucked.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    If you haven't seen it yet, Katie aka pumpkinofdoom did a spoiler loaded review. She absolutely loved every minute.
    I have now watched all of Katie's rather long video. I turned on the closed captioning, and to my amusement, the horn in the background auto-generated a [Music] subtitle more than once!

    Katie said, "I had all these fears and they were totally alleviated by how great this movie was."

    I went in with the lowest expectations possible. I expected it to be the biggest piece of sh!t ever. The movie had every opportunity to exceed my low expectations and I ended up giving it 2/10.

    Although Katie did say "I did really enjoy Finn running around with Rose who was adorable", she also noted that, "It's just interesting to consider how much of the plot could have been avoided if Poe Dameron would just listen to orders."

    The whole subplot on the casino planet was another of my beefs with the movie. The movie was two and a half hours long, and this 30 minute subplot was completely superfluous. Finn and Rose failed, they accomplished nothing, and their actions had no impact on the story whatsoever. I've heard that setting was created mostly for inclusion in the Star Wars-themed lands at Disney Parks set to open in 2019, and it wouldn't surprise me if that were true.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    If you haven't seen it yet, Katie aka pumpkinofdoom did a spoiler loaded review. She absolutely loved every minute.
    I'll check out Katie's review when I have more time.

    I saw my best friend earlier tonight, and he had a positive opinion of the film until I listed out my objections. Then he was like, "Wow, you're right!"

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    I have to disagree with people pointing out that every other Star Wars movie was just a fun action movie so why hold this movie to a different standard? Firstly I disagree with that statement, but not so much that I would argue it is completely wrong. My issue is the fact that just because the other movies were a certain way doesn't mean you shouldn't try to make the newer movies better.
    If anything Last Jedi is one of the first films to depart from the way those earlier films and any conventions we may be used to. If anything, Last Jedi flies in the face of a lot of what's gone before it. I only made the point because too many people are having a cry about Last Jedi and somehow making out that the previous films were somehow far deeper, more intelligent and better assembled than what's on offer now. The level of scrutiny these new films come under is pretty ridiculous, and I'm unsure the original trilogy films were ever really dissected like this upon their release.

    Only one I can think of that trumps them all is Empire Strikes Back just because it's so stylised.
    Last edited by Ubik; 12-30-2017, 04:27 PM.

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  • Looney
    replied
    What I keep going back to is the fact that they had loads of opportunity to make these movies better and deeper than they seem to be making them. I feel like they are only scratching the surface of what they could have done. I understand that people have all of these hopes and expectations of what they want to happen because I have them too. I think what is difficult to accept is that the makers of these movies don't really seem to be trying to make much happen at all. After seeing The Force Awakens I saw questions that needed answering and a universe of interesting possibilities these movies had before them. After seeing what they did with this movie I don't think the makers of these movies see these things that deeply. I think they have a more general purpose when they could do so much more. I have to disagree with people pointing out that every other Star Wars movie was just a fun action movie so why hold this movie to a different standard? Firstly I disagree with that statement, but not so much that I would argue it is completely wrong. My issue is the fact that just because the other movies were a certain way doesn't mean you shouldn't try to make the newer movies better.

    If you haven't seen it yet, Katie aka pumpkinofdoom did a spoiler loaded review. She absolutely loved every minute.

    Leave a comment:


  • alpha128
    replied
    Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
    People keep saying that, but I just don't see it. What is it that you loved about Star Wars that has been shat upon?
    Luke Skywalker, the guy who saved his father Darth Vader, who at that point seemed to be irredeemably evil, decides to...
    kill his own nephew, the child of his sister and his best friend, because he saw the dark side in him
    .

    The filmmakers bring back
    Yoda
    ! Does he do anything meaningful, help in the final battle? No! Which means in the final analysis, Admiral Longneck, who was generally incompetent, and only got her position due to the fact everyone above her in the chain of command was either dead or incapacitated, got to be a bigger hero than f-ing
    Yoda
    !

    And what about that epic...
    light saber duel between Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker
    ? Oh, that's right - there wasn't one! If they were going to have Luke...
    die anyway
    , why not have...
    him be there in person and have a epic duel like Vader's and Obi-Wan's in the original
    .

    And don't get me started on...
    Superman Leia
    !

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by sarthaz View Post
    I feel many people remember them as higher art than they actually were.
    THIS. 1000 X This!

    I don't get the hate for the Last Jedi. It has some flaws in terms of tonal shifts in characterisation that are sometimes hard to buy.
    E.g. General Hux going from capable Space Nazi to bumbling bafoon seems a bit off. / Leia's Mary Poppins routine / Key members of the Resistance not telling each other THE PLAN...


    However, I had fun, and that's all I really expect from a Star Wars film. I am not going to overthink things. I think it was rather brave to take some of the lore and say, that's done with, let the past die... time to move on. I think people are picking holes in a few scenes and plot holes, but no one is talking about the strong moments.

    The Kylo and Rey scenes were very strong. Kylo finally becomes a character worth his salt. I also loved Rey's interactions with the dark and light side of the force. The underwater cave scene could have come straight out of Twin Peaks. Pretty awesome. I would like to see it a second time, but will wait for it to hit streaming sites to give it a second viewing.
    Last edited by Ubik; 12-29-2017, 03:49 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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