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**Andrew_Swallow** · 03-23-2005, 04:10 PM

JMS does not read the News Forums on this news groups.

Try
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated

Note. JMS's internal communications within Hollywood is unlikely to be reported in public.

**Jan** · 03-23-2005, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Andrew_Swallow

JMS does not read the News Forums on this news groups.

At any rate, he doesn't post here. Whether or not he reads here, only he knows. We've agreed to stay 'story idea free' as a courtesy in case he does.

Try
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated

Note. JMS's internal communications within Hollywood is unlikely to be reported in public.

JMS told us, only a few days before the announcement of the next movie that his contact at Paramount has said that Star Trek on TV would be on hiatus for one to two years. It seemed that he took that seriously and let us know that the idea might be re-addressed down the road.

Jan

**Kris79** · 03-23-2005, 09:13 PM

With respect to both Andrew and Jan, I think you both missed the point of the original posting.

It was a 'general' enquiry as to whether or not JMS would reconsider discussing his Star Trek project in partnership with Bryce Zabel due to information I stated in my second paragraph.

I've been a follower of all things Babylon 5 since it aired on Channel 4 back in 1993 in the UK. I admire his work and respect his wishes. I've been an avid reader of the messages posted on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated for many years now. I also understand that he does not necessarily view the general forums (although I probably would seeing as it has my name at the top of the page even if it was simply out of general curiosity).

The original posting was in a way, to start a more intellectual discussion on the possibilities of a revival. Hell, I'd much rather see a complete Babylon 5 saga revival than anything else. It's just a shame that people believe that when something doesn't quite work they way they see it in their own mind, they decide to put it on the back burner, let it simmer nicely on its own and when they feel like it, bring it back to the front and pay it some attention.

Further to that, there was no mention of any story ideas in my posting - so not quite sure where that one came from.

Anyway, back to it... (in new terms)...

1) Do people here think that with the arrival of Gail Berman at Paramount Pictures this signifies the possibility that Star Trek: Enterprise may actually return for a fifth season?

2) In the same context, do you think that if Viacom decides to divide its businesses, this will see a return for Star Trek in any form?

3) Do you think that Star Trek XI will be a welcoming addition to the family if it completes it's pre-production or further damage the franchise?

4) How many people out there think that Paramount Pictures signed Brannon Braga over to "Threshold" for CBS to move him away from the Star Trek franchise?

5) Seeing as someone has launched a JMSTrek website highlighting the possibility, do you think in your heart of hearts this combination would work?

**Kris79** · 03-23-2005, 09:29 PM

Oh and here's my answers to the 5 questions;

1) I think it's a great move. Maybe Paramount will once again start turning out some great programming. It'll give hope to the millions of fans out there who wish to see the return of Star Trek and/or Enterprise but I doubt Gail Berman will make this one of her first executive decisions!

2) I think if Viacom do divide, there is more of a chance for the series to become syndicated or picked up by another company in the same as Babylon 5 was by TNT. Other than that... who knows?

3) I like the work of Erik Jendresen and whenever I have read information, reports or interviews on the man, he always speaks positively about his projects. You can't help but get on board with any project when his enthusiasm oozes out of the page at ya! Like with many great projects that we've all seen get forgotten or dropped because something a little bit fancier has come along, it comes down to the money. If its there, the script is great and the 'new' actors provide that something we're all looking for in Star Trek, then it could very well pay off. I'm not keen on the whole prequel saga, but you can't dismiss the possibilities that it has.

4) Well this is one of my views. Not sure what you think. Personally, nothing against his writing abilities because First Contact, All Good Things... and others were top notch scripts, but I had high hopes for Enterprise knowing that he was Exec., but it didn't quite work out - maybe because Rick Berman and Brannon Braga are actually tired of the franchise.

5) I'm not quite sure. JMS has the exceptional ability to tap into the core of any character and possibly like Gene Roddenberry did in the 60's tap into the core feeling of humanity - and basically set it in another realm to have the ability of exploring Humanity in its infinite number of ways. Wether or not the success gained from Babylon 5 & Jeremiah could actually transfer to Star Trek, I don't know. I'm also a keen follower of Bryce Zabel and greatly miss Dark Skies (which also in my opinion was not given the time to develop and explore) whether or not combined we could see one hell of a Star Trek show or not well... again we all wait in anticipation.

Let's hear your thoughts folks!

**Jan** · 03-24-2005, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by Kris79

With respect to both Andrew and Jan, I think you both missed the point of the original posting.

Sorry 'bout that. A lot of people arrive here under the impression that JMS hangs out here so when you posted:

Specifically posted for JMS...

I figured it would be best to let you know right away that as far as we know, he doesn't hang out here.

Further to that, there was no mention of any story ideas in my posting - so not quite sure where that one came from.

Again, just information for a new poster. No offense meant. Oh, and I forgot to say...welcome!

As for your points, the only one I can comment on is:

5) Seeing as someone has launched a JMSTrek website highlighting the possibility, do you think in your heart of hearts this combination would work?

I think so. Like Roddenberry, JMS often writes about the nobility of the human spirit and is able to show it to us so that we believe in it, too. I think he'd also bring back a sense of wonder to that universe. One of the huge strengths that kept ST:TOS alive for fans for so long after the original went off the air was the memory of the bonds between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. With the characterization that JMS does so well, I think we'd have the possibility of relationships just as rich, though different.

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Bryce Zabel's work.

Jan

**colonyearth** · 03-24-2005, 09:00 AM

First of all, welcome, Kris!

Always a big welcome to newbies here, and a personal howdy from fellow "family."

To bring my, albeit meager yet somewhat in someways informed opinion to this subject:

Originally posted by Kris79

1) Do people here think that with the arrival of Gail Berman at Paramount Pictures this signifies the possibility that Star Trek: Enterprise may actually return for a fifth season?

Perhaps, but don't hold your breath. Gail ain't all that...just look at where she's coming from...FOX, which has been struggling for some time now up until this last February sweeps. FOX, with Berman there, has not been known to be SF friendly. I agree with Jan that if JMS' inside contact says they're letting it rest, that means they're letting it rest. Although, I've been very impressed with Coto's last season of ENTERPRISE...which IMO is the best Trek we've gotten since TOS and TNG.

2) In the same context, do you think that if Viacom decides to divide its businesses, this will see a return for Star Trek in any form?

A division of the various arms and legs of Viacom doesn't mean they'll suddenly work together better than before....probably the opposite. Could this mean an eventual return to respect for TREK in the Paramount offices? Maybe...but again, I wouldn't hold my breath. I've said elsewhere, never try to outguess suits...you'll find yourself driven slowly mad.

3) Do you think that Star Trek XI will be a welcoming addition to the family if it completes it's pre-production or further damage the franchise?

With Berman (Rick the asshole that is) still in charge of it...I fully expect crap. Although, again, I've said that this is a spect script that's been commissioned and does NOT mean an actual film is being done. This project doesn't have a greenlight yet and I'm doubting that it will get one. Paramount wants Berman gone...he's despised by fans...and the only sure fire way of getting him gone is to kill TREK for a while, both on TV and in film (the last two films have been critical and box office bombs and that don't look good to suits when the person responsible asks to do another one). I still think this is his last ditch effort to stay in power, but Paramount features has already passed on three other pitches made by Berman for another TREK film...I fully expect they'll pass again.

A spect script is pretty much the same thing that JMS just wrote for TMoS. It doesn't mean a film will actually be made. Hundreds of such scripts are written every year and don't make any further than a suit or two before being tossed into a rather large trash can. Berman leaked this info to try to gain fan support in the wake of the ENTERPRISE news to keep from being fired. I see it as a last, desperate grasp for control over a universe he's responsible for destroying. Good riddens as far as I'm concerned, to him and Braga (the most hated writer in TREK history).

If by some miracle this film gets made...I fully expect it to ruin continuity even more and put the last nail in the TREK coffin.

4) How many people out there think that Paramount Pictures signed Brannon Braga over to "Threshold" for CBS to move him away from the Star Trek franchise?

Berman and Braga have a deal for other projects. Yes, this is their way of getting him away from all things TREK. They will do the same with Berman (see above answer for why). Paramount is finally waking up to the fact that B&B need to be fired from TREK. Fans and critics alike want them gone. As I've said, Braga has been labeled the most hated writer in TREK history, especially after calling fans "stupid" in an interview some years ago.

As for his writing abilities...they are lackluster, at best. Everytime I've seen his name on anything, I've immediately lowered all expectations. The only good writing to come out of anything his name was attached to was by Ron Moore....he's the talented one. GENERATIONS was horrid, FIRST CONTACT was pre-mature ejaculation and an example of how not to tell a story, and ALL GOOD THINGS was only good because Moore's hand was on it.

Ever since getting out from under B&B, Moore's talent has blossomed and he's shown which of the two of them (Braga or Moore) was the one with vision and skill...and it ain't Braga.

B&B have reportedly stepped in (another power-grab) and written the last ENTERPRISE episode. Once I heard that...I felt a sickening, sinking feeling...knowing that the last episode of TREK on TV for some time, and after such a great season, would be horrible. A sad ending...although fitting, perhaps, for what they caused to come before. "We ruined Trek, and by god, we're gonna make sure it goes out on a low point just like we brought it to!" What idiots.

5) Seeing as someone has launched a JMSTrek website highlighting the possibility, do you think in your heart of hearts this combination would work?

This site was already in existance...they just changed it after JMS posted his call for fan support on his TREK run. Since JMS, himself, has asked fans not to push for it...I seriously doubt anything will come of it.

If and when Paramount decides to revive TREK on TV, I've stated my firm belief that they will undoubtedly approach JMS to at least assist in running it.

I, for now, anxiously await the announcement of what new series JMS will be running. The plan, according to him, of a strong arc, pre-written and planned out in detail, sounds marvelous! I'm sure it will be wonderful and engaging...not to mention moving and profound...as I've come to expect from JMS.

CE

**frulad** · 03-24-2005, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Jan

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Bryce Zabel's work.

Jan

Off the top of my head, I think Zabel wrote on the first (and only good) season of Lois & Clark and created the shortlived Dark Skies series for Fox...

**DGTWoodward** · 03-24-2005, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by colonyearth

First of all, welcome, Kris!

Always a big welcome to newbies here, and a personal howdy from fellow "family."

To bring my, albeit meager yet somewhat in someways informed opinion to this subject:

Braga has been labeled the most hated writer in TREK history, especially after calling fans "stupid" in an interview some years ago...As for his writing abilities...they are lackluster, at best. Everytime I've seen his name on anything, I've immediately lowered all expectations. B&B have reportedly stepped in (another power-grab) and written the last ENTERPRISE episode. Once I heard that...I felt a sickening, sinking feeling...knowing that the last episode of TREK on TV for some time, and after such a great season, would be horrible. A sad ending...although fitting, perhaps, for what they caused to come before. "We ruined Trek, and by god, we're gonna make sure it goes out on a low point just like we brought it to!" What idiots.

CE

Anthony, as a person who feels more-or-less about Trek as you seem to do, can I ask you....Where do you think the problems started? And how did this reflect on the episodes themselves?

As an aside...Why is it that only now, at the end (hang on, I'm starting to sound like Palpatine....

) most people have realised that the last few years of TREK have been such utter crap that I, EVEN I, gave up on them!!?
It's like before, they just didn't notice the lack of consistant plot or over all stories, didn't mind the contrived, banal and self indulgent humour, tolerated the shockingly bad (or at best mixed) acting, seemed quite happy to look at the pretty pictures in front of them - with no real emotional or intellectual growth infusing them at all. Then suddenly...

Shazammmmm

It's almost like someone threw the "Don't take no more shit!!" switch!

**Kris79** · 03-24-2005, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by frulad

Off the top of my head, I think Zabel wrote on the first (and only good) season of Lois & Clark and created the shortlived Dark Skies series for Fox...

You're absolutely right. I felt the same amount of anticipation for Dark Skies as I did for Babylon 5. I only started watching Babylon 5 thanks to my dad. One day back in 1993, he was sat in the lounge reading the new edition of the TV guide and came across the launch of Babylon 5 (as usual never given much review, receiving about 75 words in the corner of a page). As I sat watching another show on the box, he told me Babylon 5 was starring an actor that I was familiar with (Bill Mumy aka our very own Lennier). Hence, I wanted to see and 12 years down the road, I'm still very much attached to the show.

The reason I put the quote I did below as my signature is because it truely touched something inside me. The quote comes from JMS back in 2001 (if my info is correct). Babylon 5 inspired me to get more involved in Media, in writing especially and since then, I find I cannot stop writing. Hell, I've joined the millions out there that have written scripts for Star Trek in the hope of seeing them come to fruition on screen.

Now, I'm alot more grounded. I'm in the final stages of launching my own media company, producing programming concepts and shows for UK networks amoungst other things like Graphic Design and Marketing and it's all down to the vision I saw on screen that (mainly) came from the mind of JMS. I should curse him really 'cos its one hell of a difficult business to be in!

I even have a six year old daughter that due to present law in the UK, prevents me from seeing as regularly as I would like too, but I guess that's why we have solicitors

When going through this difficult stage in my life, I turned to Babylon 5 as my "get away" - fortunately, the episode I watched ended up being the one in Season 5 where Sheridan records a message for his forth-coming child, knowing that he will never see him come of age. This touched me like you wouldn't believe and inspired me to do a similar thing for my daughter.

If Babylon 5 and the words (not of the characters but...) of JMS can so profoundly touch me, I can only imagine how many other people the show reached.

I am and will forever be eternally grateful....

**OOOPS** Soz folks, way off subject then

**colonyearth** · 03-25-2005, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by LightStorm

Anthony, as a person who feels more-or-less about Trek as you seem to do, can I ask you....Where do you think the problems started? And how did this reflect on the episodes themselves?

As an aside...Why is it that only now, at the end (hang on, I'm starting to sound like Palpatine....

) most people have realised that the last few years of TREK have been such utter crap that I, EVEN I, gave up on them!!?
It's like before, they just didn't notice the lack of consistant plot or over all stories, didn't mind the contrived, banal and self indulgent humour, tolerated the shockingly bad (or at best mixed) acting, seemed quite happy to look at the pretty pictures in front of them - with no real emotional or intellectual growth infusing them at all. Then suddenly...

Shazammmmm

It's almost like someone threw the "Don't take no more shit!!" switch!

I can, personally, trace the beginning of the end for TREK back to about 6th season of TNG actually. That's when RB was put completely in charge...right after Gene's death. Guess he figured that with Gene gone, he could start to do whatever he wanted.

That's when the technobabble started and began to get out of control. That's when Braga was given more power and influence than his talent warranted. That's when the overt melodrama started and began its long journey towards self-indulgent corniness. Watch the full run of TNG in order and you'll see the change occur.

I've watched TREK spiral downwards for over 15 years and no one would listen. Actually, that's not true really. People listened, people noticed. The ratings started slipping by DS9 and continued to fall with each new season...the fans were growing aware that something was terribly wrong and were leaving en masse . But Paramount didn't pay attention. Magazines called for Berman's termination, but Paramount didn't listen. Old-time fans were leaving and only the young techy fans were staying, but Paramount took no notice.

B5 also helped mark the end in many ways, since people found out what solid, arced and passionate SF could be.

The beginning was Berman taking full charge...the rest...is a terrible nightmare that I wished each year would end. Only now, do I feel that we are waking from the descent into darkness....seeing the light once more.

As for why the suits didn't take notice...a lot changed in the system about the mid 80's and on and those in charge at Paramount weren't the same people who stood behind Trek and respected it. It became the money maker only. As long as it was bringing in cash, no one cared about the quality or who was running it.

Now, it's not bringing in the cash anymore...and it's because of the quality. Now they're starting to realize, though perhaps a bit late, what was happening and that they should do something about it.

I could talk about this for a long time. I've watched for years as my beloved TREK died a slow and painful death. And I've mourned as others celebrated anything they got that had TREK on it. As they refused to see the writing on the wall, because to acknowledge it, would mean that they had to admit that TREK was no longer TREK.

I, like JMS, have plotted and planned, seen and known how to repair what was going so terribly wrong. I had no power to act or change, and it frustrated me beyond belief.

Now, now that Manny Coto has stepped in and revived the vision and passion that was TREK, it is too late...and Berman is using his power to try to regain control and save his reputation on the backs of others' vision. He's a snake, a visionless boob with delusions of creativity. And he should be driven out of town on rail and labeled forever as the man to who destroyed the future.

Kris...B5 did the same for me in many ways. There is a book, "Everything I learned about life I learned from STAR TREK," or something like that. For me...replace TREK with B5.

JMS once told a story...I can't find it in the archives, perhaps someone can help me out...about a letter he once got from a woman whose husband was dieing. He was a huge B5 fan, he was bedridden and loosing hope. He was always inspired by the words of G'Kar, so she recorded them all to a cassette tape for him and played them for him over and over. She told JMS that it gave him the strength to fight, to get through it all and finally to face the truth. She told JMS that G'Kar's words made her husband's final days something special for him and she would forever be in his debt for those words and moments and what he gave to her husband in his final days. JMS said, "How can you hear something like that, and not be humbled."

He is a visionary. Something the world needs more of.

CE

**Jan** · 03-25-2005, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by colonyearth

JMS once told a story...I can't find it in the archives, perhaps someone can help me out...about a letter he once got from a woman whose husband was dieing. He was a huge B5 fan, he was bedridden and loosing hope. He was always inspired by the words of G'Kar, so she recorded them all to a cassette tape for him and played them for him over and over. She told JMS that it gave him the strength to fight, to get through it all and finally to face the truth. She told JMS that G'Kar's words made her husband's final days something special for him and she would forever be in his debt for those words and moments and what he gave to her husband in his final days. JMS said, "How can you hear something like that, and not be humbled."

He is a visionary. Something the world needs more of.

Here's the post. He also told the story in person a couple of years ago at V-Con 27 and choked up.

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16565&query=dying

Jan

**colonyearth** · 03-25-2005, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Jan

Here's the post. He also told the story in person a couple of years ago at V-Con 27 and choked up.

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16565&query=dying

Jan

Thanks, Jan. I knew I could count on you.

CE

**Jan** · 03-25-2005, 11:10 AM

I live to serve. I serve to live.

Jan

**colonyearth** · 03-25-2005, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Jan

Here's the post. He also told the story in person a couple of years ago at V-Con 27 and choked up.

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16565&query=dying

Jan

Funny, it's been a long time since I heard that story. I forgot it was a sister and that the man was dying of aids.

Strange that...moves me even more now...considering.

CE

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