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  • #46
    First: thanks for the panel documentation!

    Putting the B5 statement:

    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    B5 movie: he does want to return to the B5 universe and repeated that he owns the movie rights but that he's working on enhancing his street cred but while doing so the property keeps getting colder and he 's trying to work out how to deal with that.
    Procedure as last year - procedure as year before. Procedure as every year?
    Sorry, I'm going depressed.
    He wants...
    He need more street cred...
    Meanwhile "the property gets colder" <-- surprise, surprise

    In nine days we have the "fun" to celebrate a decade since the last B5 installment.
    A blind beggar could tell us that "the franchise" dwindles away.

    I honestly understand that jms never tells the slightest about content.
    But I can't help to ask if "he 's trying to work out how to deal with that" is all he could tell the fandom about his efforts to take the pieces together - production-wise.
    I see a realistic chance that at SDCC 2018 we will get not more but the same phrases.

    I'm bad bad bad. I know.

    Once more: I'm deeply depressed to hear nothing substantial about the planned B5 feature.

    The only fact wich raise my hope a bit: Battlestar got off the ground after "the property" cooled down for a quarter century.
    But I can't wait so long: the scriptwriter would be another, the fandom too and myself sitting on a cloud.

    B5-Stefan


    --
    Morden: "What do You want?"

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Jan View Post

      - When a fan asked about Sense8, it was pretty shocking. Not *necessarily* bad, but certainly not encouraging. What he said, in a close paraphrase is that the show has "in theory" gotten approval for a 2-hour finale *but* so far there's been no movement on making that happen. Nobody's started negotiating with anybody yet. No timetable is set and with the actors all doing their own things, scheduling is likely to be difficult. JMS hasn't heard directly from Netflix and neither has the cast so he doesn't know exactly where it stands. So far all there is is the note that everybody saw. He's not saying that it won't happen but so far the steps to make it real haven't happened yet.

      More later about the emotional stories JMS told.

      Jan
      Thanks Jan

      I can only imagine the difficulties of assembling the cast and crew of Sense8. A bit discouraging that they have not yet heard anything from Netflix, but for now I will echo Douglas Adams : Don't Panic (and remember to bring your towel).

      B5: We already have a full story, so the movie is a bit less urgent to me. I would, of course, like to see it ...

      The other stuff seems to progress, slowly, but that is not unexpected.
      Jan from Denmark

      My blog :

      http://www.babylonlurker.dk

      "Our thoughts form the Universe - they *always* matter"

      Comment


      • #48
        And now to the heart of the panel. And I mean that literally.

        JMS has mentioned many times that "If I can make it, anybody can!" which comes over as being self-deprecating. He's mentioned many times over the years that his growing up was lousy but he's never gone into major detail as to just how lousy. We got some insight into that at his spotlight.

        His mother was institutionalized several times for being manic-depressive and schizophrenic. She also tried to kill him - twice. The first time, his grandmother came into the room and found her with her hand over his nose and mouth trying to suffocate him. Two of his other siblings died of 'crib death' which is basically suffocation. The second time he was about 4 or 5 and she threw him off a roof. They'd gone up to hang laundry and she threw him off. What saved him was getting tangled up in some wires or cords and when he was screaming, she had to pull him up but threatened that if he told anybody, it would be he who got in trouble.

        There was never any love or affection there but JMS told of one time when his mother came home from being institutionalized, she was heavily medicated and if little JMS brought in a neighborhood cat, she would pet it. And sometimes her hand would come into contact with his - the only time he was touched with affection - so he'd turn the cat this way and that in order to maintain that contact. Yes, he knew the affection wasn't for him but that was okay.

        His father we've heard of more over the years. JMS refers to him as a 'sampler platter of evil'. His father used to beat them with the buckle end of his belt. Once when JMS was twelve, he grabbed the belt and his father punched him so hard he broke one of his teeth and knocked him out. Later that night when his father came back from drinking, he pulled JMS off the couch (which was also his 'bedroom') and took me into the kitchen to teach him a lesson. There was a box labeled 'Joe's Comics' there and JMS had to watch while his father tore every one of them up and then made JMS clean it all up.

        This had two affects on him. JMS held up his issue of Superman that had the abused little boy on the cover who was waiting for Superman to rescue him. For him, Superman was always iconic, able to leave, do what he wanted - and Superman had moral sense, which his father didn't. So JMS decided that whatever his father would do, he would do the opposite. No drinking, no misogyny, no smoking, etc. He made the conscious decision to 'make a story' out of his own life and determine the plot line and the ending.

        He continued this contrary position when he'd get beaten up at school for being the new/weird kid. He knew that he couldn't win, but he discovered that he could keep them from winning by continuing to mouth out until they got tired of beating him.

        That stubbornness kind of defined his lifestyle and personality going forward. He'd find a way to work the system and survive.

        Here in San Diego he found some teachers who helped him out. He found a job as a 'bouncer' at the Chula Vista Library (6'3" 145 lbs (tall and skinny)). It was his job to get rid of guys prowling for dates. One Friday night on the way home he saw four guys he'd thrown out earlier in the evening and figured they'd go for him on the way to the bus. Before leaving, he went to the restroom and when he returned and finished his coffee, he found a small tab of paper on the bottom of the cup and realized they'd slipped him some windowpane acid (LSD). He knew he had to get home fast.

        That one exposure to acid, really changed his brain around. During the experience he became super aware of all of the different connotations of words. The example he used was 'blue' and how it describes color and emotion and other things.

        Next he told the story of his mugging after going to see 'Sinbad-Eye of the Tiger' where four guys beat him for ten minutes. It was that stubbornness that he credits for getting him through, thinking to himself that he had stories to tell and he wasn't going anywhere! In the aftermath of that, he'd go for long walks and noticed how the night people would fade away at dawn and the daytime people would appear. Eventually this insight became the basis for 'Midnight Nation' which is currently being developed by Universal with Gale Anne Hurd attached.

        Everything feeds into everything else. He took past difficulties and reworked it and re-envisioned it and turned it into art. The main thing is being persistent and not letting go.

        Flash forward many years and after B5 and Crusade-where he wouldn't implement the network notes - and having left other shows for artistic and moral reasons, he tog the reputation of being 'difficult'. After Jeremiah, he came back to LA and found his TV career was over. He couldn't get a job for 3-4 years so he decided to reinvent himself. He'd run across the tale of Christine Collins some time back and had tried writing that story before but this time he worked out the script and sent it to his Agent Martin Spencer (JMS had introduced him earlier) who knew of JMS but had never worked with him before. JMS wrote the script and left it on his desk. From there it went to Ron Howard who bought it. JMS had thought that the script might get him some meetings, he didn't really expect to sell it. But because of that script, his entire live was transformed - thanks to his never giving up.

        He ended up that part of the spotlight telling people that many times people set a deadline for trying to make it in art or following their dreams but those few years are probably the time it takes to start getting good at what you want to do. He stressed that folks Don't Give Up. That if they truly want it, they may need to make concessions to economic reality but should never ever give up. Each person has a unique point of view and, as diamonds are valuable for their rarity, so is that uniqueness. And that pressure that went into forming the diamond is what made it beautiful.
        Last edited by Jan; 07-23-2017, 10:41 AM.
        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

        Comment


        • #49
          This is usually the story of how supervillains are made, but JMS became a superhero! Thanks a lot for the details Jan!
          My posts are my own opinion and do not represent JMSNews.com's opinions or views. As it's written under my handle I'm "just a fan".

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Jan View Post
            And now to the heart of the panel. And I mean that literally.

            JMS has mentioned many times that "If I can make it, anybody can!" which comes over as being self-deprecating. He's mentioned many times over the years that his growing up was lousy but he's never gone into major detail as to just how lousy. We got some insight into that at his spotlight.

            His mother was institutionalized several times for being manic-depressive and schizophrenic. She also tried to kill him - twice. The first time, his grandmother came into the room and found her with her hand over his nose and mouth trying to suffocate him. Two of his other siblings died of 'crib death' which is basically suffocation. The second time he was about 4 or 5 and she threw him off a roof. They'd gone up to hang laundry and she threw him off. What saved him was getting tangled up in some wires or cords and when he was screaming, she had to pull him up but threatened that if he told anybody, it would be he who got in trouble.

            There was never any love or affection there but JMS told of one time when his mother came home from being institutionalized, she was heavily medicated and if little JMS brought in a neighborhood cat, she would pet it. And sometimes her hand would come into contact with his - the only time he was touched with affection - so he'd turn the cat this way and that in order to maintain that contact. Yes, he knew the affection wasn't for him but that was okay.

            His father we've heard of more over the years. JMS refers to him as a 'sampler platter of evil'. His father used to beat them with the buckle end of his belt. Once when JMS was twelve, he grabbed the belt and his father punched him so hard he broke one of his teeth and knocked him out. Later that night when his father came back from drinking, he pulled JMS off the couch (which was also his 'bedroom') and took me into the kitchen to teach him a lesson. There was a box labeled 'Joe's Comics' there and JMS had to watch while his father tore every one of them up and then made JMS clean it all up.

            This had two affects on him. JMS held up his issue of Superman that had the abused little boy on the cover who was waiting for Superman to rescue him. For him, Superman was always iconic, able to leave, do what he wanted - and Superman had moral sense, which his father didn't. So JMS decided that whatever his father would do, he would do the opposite. No drinking, no misogyny, no smoking, etc. He made the conscious decision to 'make a story' out of his own life and determine the plot line and the ending.

            He continued this contrary position when he'd get beaten up at school for being the new/weird kid. He knew that he couldn't win, but he discovered that he could keep them from winning by continuing to mouth out until they got tired of beating him.

            That stubbornness kind of defined his lifestyle and personality going forward. He'd find a way to work the system and survive.

            Here in San Diego he found some teachers who helped him out. He found a job as a 'bouncer' at the Chula Vista Library (6'3" 145 lbs (tall and skinny)). It was his job to get rid of guys prowling for dates. One Friday night on the way home he saw four guys he'd thrown out earlier in the evening and figured they'd go for him on the way to the bus. Before leaving, he went to the restroom and when he returned and finished his coffee, he found a small tab of paper on the bottom of the cup and realized they'd slipped him some windowpane acid (LSD). He knew he had to get home fast.

            That one exposure to acid, really changed his brain around. During the experience he became super aware of all of the different connotations of words. The example he used was 'blue' and how it describes color and emotion and other things.

            Next he told the story of his mugging after going to see 'Sinbad-Eye of the Tiger' where four guys beat him for ten minutes. It was that stubbornness that he credits for getting him through, thinking to himself that he had stories to tell and he wasn't going anywhere! In the aftermath of that, he'd go for long walks and noticed how the night people would fade away at dawn and the daytime people would appear. Eventually this insight became the basis for 'Midnight Nation' which is currently being developed by Universal with Gale Anne Hurd attached.

            Everything feeds into everything else. He took past difficulties and reworked it and re-envisioned it and turned it into art. The main thing is being persistent and not letting go.

            Flash forward many years and after B5 and Crusade-where he wouldn't implement the network notes - and having left other shows for artistic and moral reasons, he tog the reputation of being 'difficult'. After Jeremiah, he came back to LA and found his TV career was over. He couldn't get a job for 3-4 years so he decided to reinvent himself. He'd run across the tale of Christine Collins some time back and had tried writing that story before but this time he worked out the script and sent it to his Agent Martin Spencer (JMS had introduced him earlier) who knew of JMS but had never worked with him before. JMS wrote the script and left it on his desk. From there it went to Ron Howard who bought it. JMS had thought that the script might get him some meetings, he didn't really expect to sell it. But because of that script, his entire live was transformed - thanks to his never giving up.

            He ended up that part of the spotlight telling people that many times people set a deadline for trying to make it in art or following their dreams but those few years are probably the time it takes to start getting good at what you want to do. He stressed that folks Don't Give Up. That if they truly want it, they may need to make concessions to economic reality but should never ever give up. Each person has a unique point of view and, as diamonds are valuable for their rarity, so is that uniqueness. And that pressure that went into forming the diamond is what made it beautiful.
            Sadly I can relate to a lot of what Joe's said about his parents. I can never remember being hugged or shown affection by my mother as a kid. My stepdad was often reaching for a bamboo cane or a leather belt to hit me with. I was called an educated idiot by him and that because I loved SF it would never get me a job. Well, I was not going to let that come true, and also to shove in my step father's face my name in print in an SF publication.

            I got into writing, I got work on Aliens magazine (my first commercial work), consultancy work on Star Trek magazine, and when that dried up by then I was already on the path of writing the Babylon 5 Historical Database.

            Our experiences forge who we are to a greater or lesser extent. Instead of being beaten and ground down by the negativity I went ahead and pursued my dream. Never let anyone tell you any different.

            Comment


            • #51
              In the newsarama.com panel summary, the last reported 'from JMS' content was:

              Sense8 has been announced for a 2 hour finale but negotiating has not began. The novels and plays are coming.
              I'm assuming the second sentence is in reference to something else, right?

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by ranger29 View Post
                I'm assuming the second sentence is in reference to something else, right?
                Yes. JMS retired from writing comics last year in favor of writing novels and plays.
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Thanks so much for the detailed updates Jan!

                  I always knew JMS' childhood had been rough. I definitely admire the man for his tenacity and work ethic, coming out of the other side of that without being a jaded mess is quite a feat. Truly an inspiration to anyone chasing a dream. I have been chipping away at short stories / a novel / writing for a long time, but I always end up stalling and nothing ever gets finished. I admire anyone who can churn out finished work.

                  With regards the B5 movie, I think I'd be best just forgetting about it and enjoying what we already have. I don't want to be negative, but I just don't see it happening unless someone else who carries great sway in Hollywood wanted to champion it and get it made with JMS fully on board. But it probbaly needs someone with that 'street cred' to drive the project and sell it. I mean, Studio JMS doesn't even have an active website right now.

                  As for Sense8, the whole thing just seems to grow more and more murky by the day in terms of clarity with what is actually happening with the finale. I guess it's another 'wait and see'. Would be nice for both fans and creators to get closure, but whilst I like the show plenty, I am not that interested in a compressed conclusion that will never do justice to what 3 more season might have achieved.
                  Last edited by Ubik; 07-24-2017, 05:48 AM.
                  Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                  Kosh: Good!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I really don't think there is much to worry about with Sense 8 because I don't think Netflix would say there will be a finale and then have to say they aren't doing it. The only issue I see is that they might drag their feet and take longer to get it done than promised, which could cause changes none of us want to see.

                    As to the B5 news, or lack there of, I think you can take it two ways. As to the property getting cold quote, "he 's trying to work out how to deal with that". Obviously the property getting colder and colder does NOT help when trying to entice investment. It also does not help when it comes to marketing, especially in an environment where we hear everything that has ever been franchised is being brought back. And did you hear this latest one about Stargate getting its own streaming channel you have to subscribe to (still unclear if it will cost, but it likely will cost)?

                    The positive note would be that as the property gets colder and colder the possibility that Warner Brothers realizes this becomes more and more evident. There becomes the possibility that they want to do something with a franchise they control, which after reading what was said about JMS saying he was labeled "difficult to work with" seems more doubtful to me, or it is devalued so much they might be willing to part with it. Honestly I've always thought JMS was likely labeled difficult to work with back then because so much of his vision made it up on the screen and that usually takes a lot of stubbornness. Again this doesn't mean they wouldn't want to try to make money with him again or maybe finally be willing to just sell him the rights. I know the rights issue is likely never going to happen, but never say never. And we should not forget that Wonder Woman has given WB a very successful summer and Justice League is likely to be huge as well. They might be in the mood to spend on B5. Remember JMS wants them on board if possible and I think that also means he may not NEED them to make a huge investment. He WANTS them to make a huge investment, but he might be able to get by with an amount WB feels is completely reasonable. They obviously wanted to do something with him with The Lost Tales they just didn't want to spend any money on it. Maybe now, or soon, the amount JMS wants from them is within boundaries they feel are acceptable. (And I hope it is soon because after hearing that they are revamping the Flash movie again it sounds like they are about to screw themselves on the DCU.)

                    And after all this I will go back to the quote once again, "he 's trying to work out how to deal with that". What if one of the ideas he is working through is whether or not he should start looking into writing Babylon 5 novels or some other form of media to try to re-ignite the franchise? What if he is looking into alternatives to a movie or TV series? Obviously he doesn't control those rights, but why wouldn't WB want to explore those possibilities?

                    So doom and gloom aside I think it is best to keep enjoying what we have and keep trying to turn people on to Babylon 5.

                    WOOHOO 1,200TH POST!!!!!
                    Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Looney View Post
                      As to the B5 news, or lack there of, I think you can take it two ways. As to the property getting cold quote, "he 's trying to work out how to deal with that". Obviously the property getting colder and colder does NOT help when trying to entice investment. It also does not help when it comes to marketing, especially in an environment where we hear everything that has ever been franchised is being brought back. And did you hear this latest one about Stargate getting its own streaming channel you have to subscribe to (still unclear if it will cost, but it likely will cost)?

                      The positive note would be that as the property gets colder and colder the possibility that Warner Brothers realizes this becomes more and more evident. There becomes the possibility that they want to do something with a franchise they control, which after reading what was said about JMS saying he was labeled "difficult to work with" seems more doubtful to me, or it is devalued so much they might be willing to part with it. Honestly I've always thought JMS was likely labeled difficult to work with back then because so much of his vision made it up on the screen and that usually takes a lot of stubbornness.

                      Again this doesn't mean they wouldn't want to try to make money with him again or maybe finally be willing to just sell him the rights. I know the rights issue is likely never going to happen, but never say never. And we should not forget that Wonder Woman has given WB a very successful summer and Justice League is likely to be huge as well. They might be in the mood to spend on B5. Remember JMS wants them on board if possible and I think that also means he may not NEED them to make a huge investment. He WANTS them to make a huge investment, but he might be able to get by with an amount WB feels is completely reasonable. They obviously wanted to do something with him with The Lost Tales they just didn't want to spend any money on it. Maybe now, or soon, the amount JMS wants from them is within boundaries they feel are acceptable. (And I hope it is soon because after hearing that they are revamping the Flash movie again it sounds like they are about to screw themselves on the DCU.)
                      You made my day!
                      Now I'm lesser depressed

                      Originally posted by Looney View Post
                      And after all this I will go back to the quote once again, "he 's trying to work out how to deal with that". What if one of the ideas he is working through is whether or not he should start looking into writing Babylon 5 novels or some other form of media to try to re-ignite the franchise? What if he is looking into alternatives to a movie or TV series? Obviously he doesn't control those rights, but why wouldn't WB want to explore those possibilities?
                      At the time of the WB JMS juridical agreement in the business "streaming" was completely unknown. Did JMS ever stated sth. about that? Could this be a mousehole?
                      Aka "we make no tv-series" but "we produce an internet streaming show"?
                      (Some thoughts to help me to get more lesser depressed ;-)

                      Originally posted by Looney View Post
                      So doom and gloom aside I think it is best to keep enjoying what we have and keep trying to turn people on to Babylon 5.
                      Amen

                      Originally posted by Looney View Post
                      WOOHOO 1,200TH POST!!!!!
                      Did You ask for goodies?

                      B5-Stefan


                      --
                      Morden: "What do You want?"
                      B5-Stefan: "A damned B5verse flick, of course"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I will take any bit of hope I can get. Cheers Looney!
                        Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                        Kosh: Good!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          "JMS Gives The Best Advice For Writing Screen, TV And Comics At San Diego Comic-Con"
                          https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08...ego-comic-con/
                          My posts are my own opinion and do not represent JMSNews.com's opinions or views. As it's written under my handle I'm "just a fan".

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            I was just coming over to post that! Best article on one of his writing panels I've seen.
                            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                            Comment

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