B5 Scrolls - The Art of Babylon 5

[timk519]

FB behavior on banning

Just a note - when someone is banned from a FB group, all their comments, posts, etc are also removed from the group. Not sure why, this just seems to be FB policy.

[Jan]

Moved this thread to the General forum from the Script forum.

Jan

[Ubik]

Not sure how FB pages work but it's been the custom for *years* that WB would lay off of fan websites that used clips and images and art from the show as long as proper copyright notice was appended.

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-2145

That is good to know, and to do otherwise would be very counterproductive for WB!

I think B5 Scrolls (from a WB / copyright perspective) would have been just fine had this 'incident' not occurred. I don't remember how the thread got sidetracked to copyright, but it's unfortunate that it did.

Personally, I think both parties need to chill out a bit.

But yes, must be acknowledged that Triple-F has done some poking in his own way.

[Jan]

I wasn’t too impressed with the way JMS handled the situation, and many of the issues that were broached could have been resolved in a less public forum.

Not sure how. Triple F (aka Tom Smith) has been vocal and public and freely admits to having gotten himself banned from JMS' Facebook fan page under his Triple F persona (missed that one-don't know the cause). There's no denying things got out of hand but when one pokes a dragon in public, one can expect to get roasted in public.

Jan, as you are banned from the FB page you won’t have seen the sample image previewing the new B5 Scrolls pages. Every single image that may possibly infringe copyright will be removed (90% or so) and replaced by a placeholder that states ‘removed at the request of JMS due to potential copyright violation’, I’m paraphrasing from memory here, so don’t quote me on that exact text. In any case, it sends a pretty clear message. It’s a final two fingers to JMS.

Oh, I can see the page...when it's up. He's taken it down yet again late last night.

I’m sad to see things go this way, and there must be countless fan sites out there that use images / screen grabs from the shows that they champion. Legally speaking, I’m sure they’re in the wrong too. Same goes for Facebook fan pages, I mean, just look at Babylon 5 facebook page. It’s stuffed to bursting with screen grabs and ship images.

Not sure how FB pages work but it's been the custom for *years* that WB would lay off of fan websites that used clips and images and art from the show as long as proper copyright notice was appended.

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-2145

I told Triple F more than once that he needed to include the WB copyright notice on his site.

This particular situation just seems so counter-productive to me, especially when B5 Scrolls was such a well realised fan site. Sure, it clearly had its own agenda, and not everyone will agree with Triple F’s sometimes provocative take on things. Perhaps ‘the rant’ went too far, but it’s just one man’s opinion and he’s entitled to it. Claims can always be refuted; there’s always room for debate. It’s a shame this debate had to end like it did.

I have faith that the FB page and the site will be back. And probably down again. And then back. There's already a trend.

I wish B5 Scrolls all the best, and hope it can continue even in a much diminished (largely) image free form.

I'd be interested to see what would happen if he actually contacted WB and asked permission. Somehow that doesn't seem to have occurred to him. What could it hurt?

Jan

[Ubik]

I must admit, the whole exchange between JMS and Triple F didn’t sit well with me. I can appreciate the angle JMS was coming from, but I think he let his anger get the better of him. I was saddened to see how quickly the thread disintegrated into a mud-slinging match, where neither party really kept their cool.

I wasn’t too impressed with the way JMS handled the situation, and many of the issues that were broached could have been resolved in a less public forum. All this incident seems to have done is sour quite a few long term fans against him. JMS had every right to comment, and correct facts he feels are being misrepresented. I just believe it could have been done more constructively, without making it so personal and without the implied threats of legal action.

Jan, as you are banned from the FB page you won’t have seen the sample image previewing the new B5 Scrolls pages. Every single image that may possibly infringe copyright will be removed (90% or so) and replaced by a placeholder that states ‘removed at the request of JMS due to potential copyright violation’, I’m paraphrasing from memory here, so don’t quote me on that exact text. In any case, it sends a pretty clear message. It’s a final two fingers to JMS.

I’m sad to see things go this way, and there must be countless fan sites out there that use images / screen grabs from the shows that they champion. Legally speaking, I’m sure they’re in the wrong too. Same goes for Facebook fan pages, I mean, just look at the Babylon 5 facebook page. It’s stuffed to bursting with screen grabs and ship images.

This particular situation just seems so counter-productive to me, especially when B5 Scrolls was such a well realised fan site. Sure, it clearly had its own agenda, and not everyone will agree with Triple F’s sometimes provocative take on things. Perhaps ‘the rant’ went too far, but it’s just one man’s opinion and he’s entitled to it. Claims can always be refuted; there is always room for debate. It’s just a shame this debate had to end like it did.

I don’t think either party came off particularly well. I’m doing my best to keep a neutral perspective, and I can see valid points on both sides of the spectrum.

I wish B5 Scrolls all the best, and hope it can continue even in a much diminished (largely) image free form.

[Jan]

Posting this here since it's the most recent B5 Scrolls thread.

The website is currently down and the Facebook page was down but it's back now, minus some artwork after a kerfluffel between Triple F and JMS. You can find some of the info in the Interesting JMS Posts thread in the General forum.

I'm glad that the interviews will be coming back as I've always said that the page is a great resource in that regard.

One thing I will comment on, though. Triple F wrote on his FB page:

As you can probably guess from Jan’s comments that whole idea of me making up a straw man argument has haunted the website ever since it started (assuming you saw what she said before I finally banned her ass after 6, or so, years of her following me round the net saying I’m making stuff up).

...but since he banned me, you can't see my posts anymore. Funny, that. And he didn't ban me until I took exception to his dragging my personal finances into his argument with JMS. As for my 'following' him, my registrations on the three sites I remember interacting with him *far* predate his.

I, however, am not banning him...as long as he follows forum rules.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know to not delete your bookmarks since he says the page will be back.

Jan

PS: (to respond to the original post) Don't know if it's going to survive among the posts he's deleting but one of the quotes often seen was Mojo claiming that JMS would *never* allow him to publish a book of B5 art, JMS responded that Mojo had never asked.

[Ubik]

Just thought I'd cross post this here, as it seemed like an interesting proposition. B5 Scrolls, which is a site you're probably all familiar with, is a veritable gold mine of interviews that focus on the visual effects side of B5. Some time ago, the guy who runs it mocked up a cover for a book on 'The Art of Babylon 5' as a bit of fun. He put it out there to see if the real article might be of interest people.

Thread is here

I wonder if this might be something that the B5 Books team could do in collaboration with B5 Scrolls? Jan, given you have some involvement with B5 Books, does this seem like a viable project? Might be an interesting aside to flag to Jaclyn.