JMS & Damon Lindelof?

[Flynn2000]

I cannot see how "The Constant" is a rip off of Babylon Squared at all. Hardly any similarities and quite different rules of time going on.

Hi, nottenst.

"Rip Off" may be too strong a word. I should have said "Inspired by" (and I really can't know this for sure). But when you say "hardly any similarities", my memory of the episode says different. It's been a while since I've seen "The Constant" but I remember the episode being similar to "Babylon Squared" in the use of time travel as a dramatic devise as well as their plot structures being similar.

Both stories have the a group of characters journeying out to a mysterious vessel, where one or more of the characters suffer periodic loss of consciousness, resulting in them "Becoming unstuck in time!" In both shows, the characters present day consciousness connects to there own consciousness in another time of there life. This is always a moment of great emotional pain for the character and pivotal point in their lives. So instead of physically traveling in time, they mentally travel in time, with their own life line being the conduit through the time stream. It's basically a really neat way to show a flashback.

The Time Stabilizer stuff, which is unique to B5, is not really dramatically important till we get into "War Without End."

This being said, my memory may be wrong, and I did greatly enjoy the Lost episode.

Thanks and keep up the discussion.

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Of course, it is just as possible (maybe even likely) that JMS used Lost in his comic script precisely because (a) it was/is controversial, (b) it is current and (c) even non-Lost watchers (like me) have a vague idea that the show had been building up for a long time to an ending that may or may not have been brilliant, depending on your reason for watching it through to the end.

[nottenst]

I'll point out another thing. The Lost season five episode, and what many consider to be the series best story 'The Constant', is a direct rip off of 'Babylon Squared'. It was a great episode though, but Babylon Squared is still better.

I cannot see how "The Constant" is a rip off of Babylon Squared at all. Hardly any similarities and quite different rules of time going on.

[JoeD80]

That would be silly, though, since in the end it's all about consequences and the fact that our actions and relationships do matter, and that's something he should be able to relate to.

Well just because he likes a certain type of character story doesn't mean he's going to like it if it's framed in a way he didn't enjoy. "The Search, Part II" said a lot about the DS9 characters, but it was the episode that caused Joe to say "I hate that kind of story." I'm just speculating though since we're not sure if Joe really didn't like the Lost ending or not. I'm still working my thoughts out on this but I think another difference between B5 and Lost is that Lost's focus seems to be on learning the moral of the story, and Joe didn't want to write morals:

I've long classified B5 not as a *moral* show, because I don't have any morals to give anyone, but rather as an *ethical* show, posing questions and bringing up issues as honestly as I can, to let the viewers discuss the implications and come to decisions on their own. If we have succeeded in doing that, then I'm happy.

Babylon 5 solved the mysteries surrounding the story (who stole Babylon 4, why did the Minbari surrender, what is Kosh) and left deeper themes (what is the nature of the soul? what do you see after death?) for the viewers to contemplate, and argue about, and "start bar fights over" as Joe is fond of saying. Lost pushed aside answering particular mysteries (who was in that outrigger? why'd the Ajira passengers get slaughtered?) to focus on what you are supposed to learn from the show ("people always try to take the light, they always want more, that's bad")

I wouldn't be surprised if it were. Hey, if JMS can have a Facebook page, who'se to say that he's not on Twitter, too?

I looked about a week ago, but he's not on twitter that I can see.

[Jan]

I wouldn't be surprised if it were. Hey, if JMS can have a Facebook page, who'se to say that he's not on Twitter, too?

Jan

[Triple F]

; )

Actually, on topic.

IsnÆt it possible this was just a light hearted comment on the part of Damon Lindelof. I think the use of jms rather an STRACZYNSKI may be a hint that this is nothing more than some banter between friends rather than a professional writer feeling slighted by something jms included in a comic.

[Jan]

I'd say that's about as far off topic as this will go. Take it to the proper forum if you want to continue.

Jan

[Triple F]

A little off topic but someone should open a thread named "Parts and ideas DS9 copied from B5". U could write a lot of pages hehe

Yeah, and you could include how they nicked Foundation Imaging to do their EFX and left B5 in the lurch hehe. It’s been one of my personal favourites amongst fan theories, ever since reading about it.

[Jonas]

He hates "character and audience find out later that it's all a dream" stories, so that might spill over to "character and audience find out later that he's dead already" stories like the flash-sideways as well.

That would be silly, though, since in the end it's all about consequences and the fact that our actions and relationships do matter, and that's something he should be able to relate to.

[Whyruss]

A little off topic but someone should open a thread named "Parts and ideas DS9 copied from B5". U could write a lot of pages hehe

[JoeD80]

He hates "character and audience find out later that it's all a dream" stories, so that might spill over to "character and audience find out later that he's dead already" stories like the flash-sideways as well.

[Jonas]

Well, there was the "Stu Radzinsky" character in Season 5, who was namechecked as early as Season 2. A truly amusing/exasperating performance from Eric Lange, who would be a lock for the "Best Comedy" Hugo if such a thing existed.

A particularly nice touch was the use of "Jankowsky" as the code name when they were casting him. One for the real obsessives, that ....

I was just going to mention that. Also: Mira Furlan.

If JMS really didn't like the ending, that would be very odd. It was perfect, and very much the sort of thing that JMS might have done. Sidetracked by the sci-fi maybe? Led to expect something different?

[Flynn2000]

Back around the time of season two of Lost, I read an interview with one of the producers, I think it was David Fury, who had left to produce on '24', and he said that they had been inspired by JMS's Babylon 5 arc concept. I remember this because it was the only time over the years that I had ever heard one of the many TV producers that were 'inspired' by Babylon 5, give credit and admit to this. He also admitted that they had no idea where the story was going at that time.

I'll point out another thing. The Lost season five episode, and what many consider to be the series best story 'The Constant', is a direct rip off of 'Babylon Squared'. It was a great episode though, but Babylon Squared is still better.

[Belbo]

Well, there was the "Stu Radzinsky" character in Season 5, who was namechecked as early as Season 2. A truly amusing/exasperating performance from Eric Lange, who would be a lock for the "Best Comedy" Hugo if such a thing existed.

A particularly nice touch was the use of "Jankowsky" as the code name when they were casting him. One for the real obsessives, that ....

[JoeD80]

To me, a lot of the things in Lost, especially in the last season, felt reminiscent of B5. But that's a matter for another thread.

Well we can use more threads around here. I'm interested in what you think was similar, because I don't follow at this point.

Dunno about lindeloff being a fan or not. I didn't watch LOST past the fist half of the second season or so. Anybody else know?

This is one of the only times I've been aware of him saying anything about JMS. Most discussions about Babylon 5 in reference to Lost I have seen were from fans. The show I usually saw Cuse & Lindelof talk about in reference to previous shows influencing theirs was Twin Peaks. Interestingly enough Joe also has referenced Twin Peaks, but they interpreted the problems with that show differently: Joe's take was that Twin Peaks was unwilling to answer questions; Lindelof/Cuse's take was that once questions were answered, the show would be over.