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  • #46
    Here we go again....

    Folks, it's not terribly important to me. Believe what you want to believe.

    However please re-read my post. I state that his failure to support any effort to help the show survive is not by itself any indication that he was not happy with Crusade. Rather, what I state is that when that behaviour is coupled with information I've learned about his state of mind on the set then I begin to see a clearer picture.

    My information could be wrong....who knows?

    Comment


    • #47
      I have to bail out Tim a bit, because while his assertion is actually true, he may not be able to source some of the references. I did a little bit of poking around for a few quotes that were on the record, and this is something from an interview I did with director Janet Greek not long after Crusade was shut dow. It should be pointed out that she was originally scheduled to direct the final episode of Crusade, season one:

      Joe: Bruce was a company man, so you know you would have a good set, he would come in prepared, he would promote the show, and he's going to talk to the crew and be supportive.

      Janet: And I know Gary wasn't interested in doing anything. The thing is too, Bruce tried. Bruce came in, and I directed him on the first episode he did, and he came in and he came to me and said, 'I've never done SF, I don't know what I'm doing here; please help me. I will do anything you tell me, I will do anything; make me the captain of this ship,' so together we did. I directed the hell out of him; that first episode, I was all over him, and he worked very hard, and he was very receptive and he listened and he's smart and he has a lot of technique. I think he's a better actor than most people give him credit for, because he hasn't had an opportunity to do a lot of stuff. He's been pigeonholed and not written well for, and I think he really did well as this captain, as this character. The other thing is that in life and on the set, he was very dynamic and brought a lot of energy to the set and at work, and Gary is the opposite. He was quiet, he didn't talk to anybody, he didn't fool around much; he was kind of to himself. He wasn't the leader, and you need the actor who's playing the lead in a series has to be that.

      -------------------
      I've got some quotes that are even more direct than that from folks who worked on the show, but even though they were speaking on the record, there's no real point in putting them in the middle of this discussion just to prove a point.

      Comment


      • #48
        Thanks Tim and Joe. For the record, all I was doing is asking what was meant by the 'didn't support' term as it's quite vague. I didn't mean for it to seem like an adversarial question.

        That's a very sweet picture that Janet Greek painted of Bruce. I hope he does come to Comic-Con!!

        Jan
        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

        Comment


        • #49
          Thanks Joe. I appreciate that. And yes, it would be very poor form for me to state who told me what.

          Its unfortunate too because I believe that B5:TLT offers a great chance to explore Capt Gideon (and other Crusade characters). There are alot of neat things in his character arc. I'm thinking of his aquisition of the Apocalypse Box and his use of it to go from, essentially a private, to a captain in less than 9 years (I think that timeframe is right). The price that that box could have been exacting along the way could have made for some interesting stories.

          Well who knows? Maybe enough time has passed. Perhaps the right incentive could bring him back to the role as well. Only time will tell....

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
            I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I was under the impression that Cole was relatively enthusiastic about the short-lived American Gothic. I'm not sure I liked him that much in anything since.
            I liked him in Midnight Caller, then I pretty much lost track of him until Crusade.
            Mac Breck (KoshN)
            ------------------
            Warner Brothers is Lucy.
            JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
            Babylon 5 is the football.

            Comment


            • #51
              First, I'm not trying to attack, pick an argument or demean anybody. I'm simply trying to provide an alternate perspective, ...my perspective. That goes for all of my posts in this thread.


              Originally posted by phazedout View Post
              I have to row in with Jan somewhat on this
              WB didn't offer any recompense to the Actors for contributing to the commenteries. Look at this form Gary's perspective, the show was over, he'd gotten paid, move on to the next Job.
              We as fans may not appreciate the financial realities of an actor's life, givne a choice between doing something unpaid for a show he'd been assured was dead and finding more work to keep the proverbial wolf form the door I cna understand his priorities.
              That's why Andreas didn't do any commentaries. Nobody, including me, holds that against him. <shrug>



              Originally posted by phazedout View Post
              Also Tim you're saying you've heard Gary wasn't happy in the show, on the set, is it possible (without getting people in trouble obviously) to attribute the source of these statemnts?
              It's possible that Gary might not have been happy on the set (assuming that's true), because of all the TNT meddling, the stopping and starting, the ridiculous change in uniforms, a few bad lines he had to say, and he might have picked up on the friction between JMS and the TNT Pinheads-with-Notes.

              It's also possible that by this point in Gary's career (Crusade, 1998-1999), his attitude toward his shows might have changed since American Gothic.

              In Ascending Order by Date, Shows Where He's Had More A Short Guest Appearance:
              1. Midnight Caller .... Jack 'Nighthawk' Killian (61 episodes, 1988-1991)
              2. American Gothic .... Sheriff Lucas Buck (22 episodes, 1995-1996)
              3. Crusade .... Capt. Matthew Gideon (13 episodes, 1999)
              4. Family Affair .... William 'Bill' Davis (13 episodes, 2002-2003)
              5. Family Guy .... Michael Eisner / ... (19 episodes, 2000-2005)
              6. Wanted .... Lieutenant Conrad Rose (13 episodes, 2005)
              7. The West Wing .... Vice President Bob Russell (21 episodes, 2003-2006)
              8. Kim Possible .... Dr. Possible (33 episodes, 2002-2007)
              9. Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law .... Harvey Birdman / ... (21 episodes, 2000-2007)

              Note: I haven't seen any of 5 thru 9, and very little of 2. My viewing has been limited to 1, a little of 2, 3, 4, and his guest starring roles on Hack, L&O SVU, Karen Sisco and Monk. I thought that "Brothers in Arms" episode of Hack was incredibly good.
              Last edited by KoshN; 07-02-2007, 10:18 AM.
              Mac Breck (KoshN)
              ------------------
              Warner Brothers is Lucy.
              JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
              Babylon 5 is the football.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
                I have to bail out Tim a bit, because while his assertion is actually true, he may not be able to source some of the references. I did a little bit of poking around for a few quotes that were on the record, and this is something from an interview I did with director Janet Greek not long after Crusade was shut dow. It should be pointed out that she was originally scheduled to direct the final episode of Crusade, season one:

                Joe: Bruce was a company man, so you know you would have a good set, he would come in prepared, he would promote the show, and he's going to talk to the crew and be supportive.

                Janet: And I know Gary wasn't interested in doing anything. The thing is too, Bruce tried. Bruce came in, and I directed him on the first episode he did, and he came in and he came to me and said, 'I've never done SF, I don't know what I'm doing here; please help me. I will do anything you tell me, I will do anything; make me the captain of this ship,' so together we did.
                The above statement of Janet's applies to Bruce's first B5 episode (Points of Departure), not when Bruce wanted to be on Crusade, right?




                Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
                Janet (cont'd.): I directed the hell out of him; that first episode, I was all over him, and he worked very hard, and he was very receptive and he listened and he's smart and he has a lot of technique. I think he's a better actor than most people give him credit for, because he hasn't had an opportunity to do a lot of stuff. He's been pigeonholed and not written well for, and I think he really did well as this captain, as this character. The other thing is that in life and on the set, he was very dynamic and brought a lot of energy to the set and at work, and Gary is the opposite. He was quiet, he didn't talk to anybody, he didn't fool around much; he was kind of to himself. He wasn't the leader, and you need the actor who's playing the lead in a series has to be that.
                Hmm. Interesting. Sounds like it was just a difference in personality types between Bruce and Gary. Still, onscreen, I thought Gideon was very much a leader. It could be that the actor is insecure, but he does a great job of putting onscreen what's supposed to go onscreen. Maybe he's not leader material in real life but is a great actor and can put that very effectively onscreen?



                Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
                I've got some quotes that are even more direct than that from folks who worked on the show, but even though they were speaking on the record, there's no real point in putting them in the middle of this discussion just to prove a point.
                I'd love to see them, to get a glimpse of what it was like behind the scenes on Crusade.
                Last edited by KoshN; 07-02-2007, 11:11 AM. Reason: Said "Gary" Meant to say "Gideon" in 2nd to last paragraph
                Mac Breck (KoshN)
                ------------------
                Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                Babylon 5 is the football.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Of course that quote applied to Bruce's first episode on B5. Oddly enough, I just interviewed Bruce again a few weeks ago, and I was able to ask him how he felt about not being asked back for Crusade. I'll try to squeeze some of it into the Starlog piece I'm writing on B5:TLT.

                  All that other material will eventually see print, as soon as I can get around to writing that damn book.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
                    All that other material will eventually see print, as soon as I can get around to writing that damn book.
                    I was wondering if that was still in the works.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
                      Of course that quote applied to Bruce's first episode on B5.
                      When I first read your post, it wasn't all that obvious, to me. There was room for a tiny bit of doubt. I guess I blitzed right past the "I've never done SF." bit. See, the first and only time I ever saw Janet Greek, and therefore could put a name with a face, was on Crusade DVD#4, so I tend to associate Janet Greek with Crusade. I see the name, instantly visualize the face, and think of where I saw that face. Combine that with knowing that Bruce really wanted to be in Crusade, and I thought that maaaaybe they might have had a try-out with Sheridan captaining the Excalibur. <shrug> I don't know what convoluted path might have gotten him into that captain's chair, but stranger things have happened. Didn't want to rule it out. I wasn't on the Crusade set for even a millisecond, so it's a little hard to know what did and didn't happen as they started into making the show.



                      Originally posted by Joe Nazzaro View Post
                      Oddly enough, I just interviewed Bruce again a few weeks ago, and I was able to ask him how he felt about not being asked back for Crusade. I'll try to squeeze some of it into the Starlog piece I'm writing on B5:TLT.
                      When you find out which issue it's going to be in, would you please let us know here?
                      Last edited by KoshN; 07-02-2007, 01:11 PM.
                      Mac Breck (KoshN)
                      ------------------
                      Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                      JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                      Babylon 5 is the football.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Tim_Fleming View Post
                        Here we go again....

                        Folks, it's not terribly important to me. Believe what you want to believe.

                        However please re-read my post. I state that his failure to support any effort to help the show survive is not by itself any indication that he was not happy with Crusade. Rather, what I state is that when that behaviour is coupled with information I've learned about his state of mind on the set then I begin to see a clearer picture.

                        My information could be wrong....who knows?
                        That's all well and good, but try and see our (my) perspective. Not to get at you or anything, but if you don't feel confident enough in your information, or don't feel it appropriate to share it, then to my mind you shouldn't even mention it. I certainly can't put any stock in it. The perspective I look at it from is, what if it were me being discussed, and someone was obliquely alleging *something* about my behaviour, but without explicitly laying it out or backing it up with anything on the grounds that they 'couldn't say'. I would hope and expect that people wouldn't pay it any attention whatsoever, so I won't in this instance I'm afraid. Not meant to be an accusation of falsehood or anything, I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

                        As for that quote from Janet Greek, that does indeed sound to me like she'd just describing Cole as quiet and a bit of an introvert. Maybe that's not ideal for a cast lead but there's not anything wrong with it - I hope, since it describes me quite well too!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          hey,
                          I mean wow
                          sorry I'm not on here as much as I once was (not freedom to post from work and soo many other boards to keep up with, sirry )
                          IF I cam across as advaserial I didn't mean to and I think my question has been answered infull, with more attribution than I ever could have expcted.
                          Blame the psychology degree I'm doing, it's all Cite, Cite Cite. Gues it's infected my thinking.
                          still, it's nice to see such a vocal (And well informed) fanbase tha tI'm a part of.
                          Phaze
                          on the "fully supportive of TIm and very thankful to Joe" ID
                          "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Jan View Post
                            Not really. At least, not if you've seen Sleeping in Light. I mean, we *know* they found a cure. We just don't know how or exactly when.

                            Jan
                            We also learn that the cure was found in the Psi Corps book, "The Fate of Bester," which brings up another interesting point: In the book, which takes place in 2271, the Earth quarantine is still in place even though the plague is gone. Perhaps something else in the Crusade series was going to lead to this odd development? The cure being found but nobody allowed into Earth?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              In 2271 the quarantine is the other way round. Earth is keeping out alien diseases. It does not want to go through a scare like that again.

                              Several towns in Europe used to have quarantine hotels to handle this. In England plague ships used to be quarantined until no one had died for a month.
                              Andrew Swallow

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Oh yeah that's right. I remembered Crusade backwards. So during Crusade they won't let people out of Earth, and in 2271 they won't let people in.

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