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  • B5-Stefan
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    I know it was terrible, but Space Command is shooting their 2nd and 3rd movie now.
    Ubik, SPACE COMMAND is an excellent example for what's possible in the business against all odds.

    As I say: High time for efforts on an all new B5 feature!

    B5-Stefan


    --
    Max Eilerson: "Nations rise and fall. Planets live and die.
    But corporations go on and on, through good times and bad, because it's all about profit.
    "
    [Crusade: "Racing the Night"]

    Leave a comment:


  • B5-Stefan
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    I am by no means a knowledgeable person when it comes to THE MEMORY OF SHADOWS affair, but things of that nature might make JMS VERY reluctant to crawl into bed with certain investors.

    Yes it does seem HIGHLY far-fetched that Patreon alone could fund a feature film project, BUT every little bit helps. If JMS can get a large enough revenue stream coming in from Patreon he might be able to leverage that into investors seeing there is still enough interest in Babylon 5 that they might see big profits from their investment.
    Well, the TMOS incident...

    If I remember correctly, it's the 15th anniversary.

    High time for efforts on an all new B5 feature!

    B5-Stefan


    --
    "When you see someone putting on his Big Boots, you can be pretty sure that an Adventure is going to happen."
    [Winnie the Pooh]

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post

    On the one hand it surprises me JMS has not reached this goal. I feel like he should have no trouble landing investors from the U.K. and German markets if he can't get enough interest from U.S. investors. I feel those two markets recognize Babylon 5's brilliance more than most places.
    I agree B5 has a higher concentrations of fans in certain territories, but I certainly don't feel like it's really a widely recognised property here in the UK. More people are likely to remember it being made fun of on SPACED than they are knowing it from having actually watched the show. Even SPACED was a niche show catering to an alternative / SF literate audience. I think it's easy to confuse 'passionate niche fandom' for a viable 'market'. I think we are still the former. That isn't to say you couldn't hard reboot it and try sell it to a new audience.

    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    Here are two possible big obstacles that might be standing in the way.

    #1 Investors are reluctant to pour money into a project that WB is possibly going to take legal action against. Yes JMS controls the feature film rights, but WB controls so much more of the property AND WB is likened to organize crime. I'm not saying they are a criminal organization. I am saying like Organized Crime they might use their influence to put all kinds of legal, production, and distribution obstacles in the way of a feature film if they are so inclined. If they wanted they could cause all kinds of unnecessary hassles that knowledgeable investors might want to avoid, especially if they feel those hassles might follow them into various future projects. It is a lot easier to make and distribute movies if the big studios aren't against what you are doing.
    I think the typical narrative of painting WB as the bad guy is really tired and very JMS centric. WB has kept B5 on multiple streaming services, from Netflix, to Prime... it's not always renewed because the demand doesn't seem to be there, but also, streaming services rotate their shows. Unless JMS has really made some enemies at WB who are still around to date, I doubt they'd stand in the way. I know back when we had the big Comic Con announcement that JMS was doing to script and shop the B5 movie via Studio JMS, he said he'd give WB first refusal. I'm unsure this was ever done. It's so hard to say, as we are speculating wildly here, but I tend to roll my eyes at "WB are BAAAD" type narratives. Worth remembering that WB were keen to make more Lost Tales, but JMS declined on financial grounds. At that point, he's also creating a barrier to new content. So, JMS himself is also a barrier, as much as WB is. It's a bit like these 6 figure audio dramas!

    Originally posted by Looney
    #2 JMS himself. Remember JMS has been burned on projects in the past by more than just Warner Brothers. I am by no means a knowledgeable person when it comes to THE MEMORY OF SHADOWS affair, but things of that nature might make JMS VERY reluctant to crawl into bed with certain investors.
    I think those investors are long gone, and I think TMOS was just a series of unfortunate events. Securing funding for films is really hard, and nothing is guaranteed until the cameras roll. He's going to need investors, or it just ain't gonna happen.

    Originally posted by Looney
    Yes it does seem HIGHLY far-fetched that Patreon alone could fund a feature film project, BUT every little bit helps. If JMS can get a large enough revenue stream coming in from Patreon he might be able to leverage that into investors seeing there is still enough interest in Babylon 5 that they might see big profits from their investment.
    I just think it's a bit disingenuous to keep mentioning the B5 Movie, but I'm sure it'll help drum up some more Patreons! I note JMS has been careful to couch it in terms of a long term 'dream'. Me, I don't think can happen via Patreon. B5 and JMS just isn't high profile enough to pull in that kind of cash. The tweet got 5 retweets, that's how excited people are... Hmmm...

    I'd love for it to be otherwise, but it's a pipe dream. I do not think this should be trotted out as a 'sign up for my Patreon' thing.

    Sorry if I seem like I'm on a massive downer on this issue. Looney I LOVE your optimism (genuinely!)... but it just seems too head in the clouds. If he were directly saying "okay, B5 movie is go", Kickstarter here, go pledge... sure, I'd look at that with interest. We'd then actually get a fair assessment of it it were possible to raise the required amount. I mean, I know it was terrible, but Space Command is shooting their 2nd and 3rd movie now.
    Last edited by Ubik; 08-19-2020, 10:20 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • B5-Stefan
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    Is 'clout' the same as 'street cred'? I remain highly skeptical of any allusions to making a B5 feature film. I don't think the Patreon will ever produce that kind of money. You need outside investors for a feature, no way around it unless you are doing something very small scale.
    'Clout' is a 'Cloud' with a 't' instead a 'd'.
    Draw your conclusions.

    With a small budget You can afford a sock-puppets feature.

    And to be not only sarcastic: with a humorous script and in all belongs well done even a sock-puppets movie could cause a tsunami of interest around the world.

    And further to think a bit positive:
    what about to talk with Clint Eastwood on the idea of a B5 feature?
    If he gets hooked, on the long run he might open some doors.

    B5-Stefan


    --
    Franklin: "Excuse me, where I come from, one man from three leaves two."
    Marcus: "Where I come from is a far more interesting place."
    [Babylon5, Exogenesis]

    Leave a comment:


  • Looney
    replied
    I have probably said a lot of this before, but I repeat myself all of the time.

    On the one hand it surprises me JMS has not reached this goal. I feel like he should have no trouble landing investors from the U.K. and German markets if he can't get enough interest from U.S. investors. I feel those two markets recognize Babylon 5's brilliance more than most places.

    Here are two possible big obstacles that might be standing in the way.

    #1 Investors are reluctant to pour money into a project that WB is possibly going to take legal action against. Yes JMS controls the feature film rights, but WB controls so much more of the property AND WB is likened to organize crime. I'm not saying they are a criminal organization. I am saying like Organized Crime they might use their influence to put all kinds of legal, production, and distribution obstacles in the way of a feature film if they are so inclined. If they wanted they could cause all kinds of unnecessary hassles that knowledgeable investors might want to avoid, especially if they feel those hassles might follow them into various future projects. It is a lot easier to make and distribute movies if the big studios aren't against what you are doing.

    #2 JMS himself. Remember JMS has been burned on projects in the past by more than just Warner Brothers. I am by no means a knowledgeable person when it comes to THE MEMORY OF SHADOWS affair, but things of that nature might make JMS VERY reluctant to crawl into bed with certain investors.

    Yes it does seem HIGHLY far-fetched that Patreon alone could fund a feature film project, BUT every little bit helps. If JMS can get a large enough revenue stream coming in from Patreon he might be able to leverage that into investors seeing there is still enough interest in Babylon 5 that they might see big profits from their investment.
    Last edited by Looney; 08-19-2020, 09:39 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Is 'clout' the same as 'street cred'? I remain highly skeptical of any allusions to making a B5 feature film. I don't think the Patreon will ever produce that kind of money. You need outside investors for a feature, no way around it unless you are doing something very small scale.

    Leave a comment:


  • Looney
    replied
    Patron 326 hopes his name gets a mention in the credits. ..... LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Triple F View Post

    jms doesn't think so. . .Just read this this morning.

    [URL="https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1295491722747641857"]https://twitter.com/straczynski/stat...91722747641857
    I saw. What was that he says..."Never surrender Dreams". I'm okay with that and contributing what I can afford.

    Leave a comment:


  • Triple F
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Thanks. Yeah, that's pretty 'pie in the sky'.
    jms doesn't think so. . .Just read this this morning.

    https://twitter.com/straczynski/stat...91722747641857
    Warners owns everything except the film rights. My dream is to one day have enough clout, with the patreon page being a slow, quiet start, to make such a film. But everything else is owned by them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Thanks. Yeah, that's pretty 'pie in the sky'.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    And while it's been a few months since I joined up, I don't recall JMS ever mentioning a B5 movie in anything pertaining to the Patreon page. Can you point me to that? Because obviously that's far out of reach for a Patreon.
    From the Patreon page mission statement:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Capture.PNG Views:	0 Size:	128.1 KB ID:	156778

    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Absolutely, discussion is welcome. But starting a discussion with "I doubt we'll see any new content from this Patreon" isn't perhaps the best opening.
    I think you need to take my statement as a whole, there was plenty of pre-amble before that to justify what I'm saying. Key to my concern / argument was that "IF he's putting financial barriers like that on things, I doubt we'll see any new content from this Patreon". Six figures just seems like a rather large barrier on producing those things. I feel it's set artificially high for an audio drama. Just my 2 cents.

    I want to see content as much as the next fan, and I know something great could be delivered for less. Of course, it's not down to me to dictate production values, but as you say things have to be realistic and within the means of the Patreon. Six figures just seems very old hat and stuck in the past in terms of what can be done with the technology available.
    Last edited by Ubik; 08-06-2020, 08:55 AM.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    I just wondered how others felt about that response, and those of you who do subscribe, do you want more clarity on ouputs in terms of new content?

    And when did it stop being any fun to post here? I just wanted to spark some discussion, but anything that vaguely challenges JMS' view is met with a fair bit of hostility. Sure, I agree it's nice to armed with facts, but we can shoot the shit using common sense sometimes too can't we?
    Absolutely, discussion is welcome. But starting a discussion with
    I doubt we'll see any new content from this Patreon.
    isn't perhaps the best opening? JMS seems perfectly aware that the timing's not ideal in the current economic climate but I'm reasonably sure that most of us signing up didn't hope that he'd do a bunch of cheap offerings. And while it's been a few months since I joined up, I don't recall JMS ever mentioning a B5 movie in anything pertaining to the Patreon page. Can you point me to that? Because obviously that's far out of reach for a Patreon.

    Leave a comment:


  • B5-Stefan
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    And when did it stop being any fun to post here?
    Never!

    Is it the hemitonic pentatonic or the anhemitonic pentatonic scale?
    Ubik, I'm very curious, to find out more of in-depth details.

    B5-Stefan


    --
    Dukhat: "I'm not saying anything. I didn't say anything then, and I'm not saying anything now."
    [Babylon5, In the Beginning]

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    I'm not implying you do!

    All I'm saying here is that I have some knowledge of the audio drama community. I am a consumer of audio drama, I've done some voice over recording and mixing work and the figure that's quoted seems very excessive and would get laughed out of the room by most people that produce audios dramas. I mean, most of them would kill for a budget like that, but successful, well produced shows have been produced for a lot less. Maybe JMS wants to produce a better class of audio drama than most? I don't know. But it just sets alarm bells ringing for me, in the same way mentioning the B5 Movie in the Patreon blurb does. With that kind of figure attached, it's very unlikely to happen.

    Ideally, let's revisit revisit this a few years down the line and we can have a look at what the tangible output of the Patreon have been. I just find it all a bit out of touch with the current tech and possibilities to create something good on a budget. Wasn't that what B5 did in the first place? It told a great story with limited resources. I'd love to see some more of that. Hell, i'd likely sign up to the Patreon if there was more of a DIY spirit and realistic goals. But this just raises a lot of questions for me.

    I just wondered how others felt about that response, and those of you who do subscribe, do you want more clarity on ouputs in terms of new content?

    And when did it stop being any fun to post here? I just wanted to spark some discussion, but anything that vaguely challenges JMS' view is met with a fair bit of hostility. Sure, I agree it's nice to armed with facts, but we can shoot the shit using common sense sometimes too can't we?
    Last edited by Ubik; 08-06-2020, 04:36 AM.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    Come on, I mean, if you aren't even remotely raising an eyebrow at six figures for an audio drama, then you need to have a quiet word with yourself.
    See abover re: uninformed opinion. I'm a hospitality accountant. How the fuck (and why) would I know anything about the costs of audio dramas?

    Leave a comment:

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