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  • Claudia's reasons for leaving

    I was listening to sci-fi dig #57 and aaron had a co-host on. They were chatting about B5 and seemed to be under the inpression that Claudia left at the end of season 4 becuase, as a woman, she was being paid less than the male actors with equiv. roles
    WTF In any reading of the situation I've done here, and any posts I've seen from JMS on the topic, this has not been metnioned.

    Am I forgetting a huge chunk of B5 history, or should I correct Aaron on his own forums (Where I also post).
    Phaze
    on the "this can't be right, can it?" ID
    p.s. Jan, I've posted this in gneral discussions because although it's B5 related it doesn't directly touch on the show. Feel free to move it to B5 if you consider it more appropraite
    "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

  • #2
    Originally posted by phazedout
    I was listening to sci-fi dig #57 and aaron had a co-host on. They were chatting about B5 and seemed to be under the inpression that Claudia left at the end of season 4 becuase, as a woman, she was being paid less than the male actors with equiv. roles
    WTF In any reading of the situation I've done here, and any posts I've seen from JMS on the topic, this has not been metnioned.

    Am I forgetting a huge chunk of B5 history, or should I correct Aaron on his own forums (Where I also post).
    At the very least I would challenge that and ask him to produce his source data. My first reaction is a resounding 'Bullshit'. Actor's contracts are negotiated and what they were paid on a show is often influenced by what they made on their last gig. Whose other work was she trying to be equated with?

    As I understand it, money *was* a factor, in that she wanted a full season's pay for fewer episodes which would have been a de-facto raise which would have violated the contracts that the other actors had.
    p.s. Jan, I've posted this in gneral discussions because although it's B5 related it doesn't directly touch on the show. Feel free to move it to B5 if you consider it more appropraite
    No, it's fine Phaze. I think we tend to overuse the other forum which technically should be for discussion of the series and episodes.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ok jan, I've posted this:
      Hi again,
      I was listening to the show(again) this morning and picked up on your point about CC leaving B5 because she was paid less as an actor than a man would be. I'm sorry, but I don't know where you got this information. Per JMS, she wanted to do fewer episodes (thus leaving her free to do film work) but gaid paid the same as the actors who were doing all 22 episodes. This, as JMS says here would equate to a per episode increase, and break all of the contracts for the other actors.
      I'm not giving out, just interested in clarifying things to the best of my knowledge. I've not quoted JMS directly as I don't have permission to report his stuff here. IF you only get 1 message in the thread then click on the "show all messages (14 in thread) button.
      By all means if you feel I've gotten the wrong end of the stick tell me, I was rather drunk when I heard that part of the 'cast so I may have picked it up wrong.
      Phaze
      on the "seeking clarification re:CC" ID
      over on the sci-fi dig forums and I'll see what aaron says. I'm tying not to pi** the guy off, but when I heard it played as a "I'm being paid less 'cause Im a woman" thing, it just really got my back up.
      Phaze
      on the "quoting myself on another forum" ID
      "There are no good wars. War is always the worst possible way to resolve differences. It degenerates and corrupts both sides to ever more sordid levels of existence, in their need to gain an advantage over the enemy. Those actively involved in combat are almost always damaged goods for the rest of their lives. If their bodies don't bear scars, their minds do, ofttimes both. Many have said it before, but it can't be said to enough, war is hell. "

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by phazedout
        I'm tying not to pi** the guy off, but when I heard it played as a "I'm being paid less 'cause Im a woman" thing, it just really got my back up.
        Phaze
        on the "quoting myself on another forum" ID
        There's always so much gossip and innuendo and just plain bad information getting passed around online (and not just B5 related) that I think it's necessary to be able to back up claims that one makes about other people. And considering that CC oringinally claimed to have been fired, I don't see how it could be that she quit over a pay inequity.

        Jan
        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

        Comment


        • #5
          If she did want to do less episodes AND get paid the same rate, well, <cough>ego<cough>. Unheard of in Hollywood.
          "I am just a worthless liar. I am just an embecile. I will only complicate you, trust in me and fall as well. I will find a center in you; I will chew it up and leave. I will work to elevate you, just enough to bring you down. Why can't we drink forever? I just want to start this over!" TOOL

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by manwithnoname
            If she did want to do less episodes AND get paid the same rate, well, <cough>ego<cough>. Unheard of in Hollywood.
            No, not unheard of at all. Plenty of actors got paid for full seasons and missed multiple (sometimes many) episodes... her replacement, for instance. Peter, Stephen, Andreas, Mira...

            The problem was, she needed it in writing, and THAT would have made it "official" and not just "at the whim of the producers." Stephen Furst got episodes off, but he was obliged to show if they called on him.

            The only controversy I am really aware of is whether or not she agreed to take a proportional paycut to get the four eps off. She says yes, and no one has actually denied that she did so.

            I don't think we will ever get the whole truth on that story. I'm not even sure there is anyone who KNOWS what the "whole truth" is.
            I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by grumbler
              No, not unheard of at all. Plenty of actors got paid for full seasons and missed multiple (sometimes many) episodes... her replacement, for instance. Peter, Stephen, Andreas, Mira...
              Actually...can you give a source for that information? I've never once read that any of the cast was guaranteed all 22 episodes. In fact, I've read that the number of episodes that they were guaranteed and paid for changed from one season to another. This post from JMS is an example of what I mean.

              Originally posted by grumbler
              The only controversy I am really aware of is whether or not she agreed to take a proportional paycut to get the four eps off. She says yes, and no one has actually denied that she did so.
              Except for this October 1997 post post perhaps where JMS writes:

              >It also failed to mention Claudia's offer to work 18 of the 22
              >scheduled episodes

              She didn't offer that. She offered to work in 18 but get paid for 22, which
              constitutes a pay raise, which violates our contracts with all the other
              actors. Again, why should we put something in that is not true?
              Jan
              Last edited by Jan; 05-29-2006, 07:21 PM. Reason: additional post quote
              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you, Jan, for clarifying all that mess. I read the links you provided.

                It seems to me Ivanova does an ego, let her contract expire, & spin a story that puts her in a good light.

                Q: Andrea Thompson? Which character did she play?
                "I am just a worthless liar. I am just an embecile. I will only complicate you, trust in me and fall as well. I will find a center in you; I will chew it up and leave. I will work to elevate you, just enough to bring you down. Why can't we drink forever? I just want to start this over!" TOOL

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by manwithnoname
                  Q: Andrea Thompson? Which character did she play?
                  Andrea Thompson played the second commercial telepath, Talia Winters best known for a one night stand with Ivanova. It's of passing interest to note that she was hired after an unsuccessful contract 'negotiation' with Pat Tallman. Guess you can't blame people for trying.

                  Jan
                  "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jan
                    Andrea Thompson played the second commercial telepath, Talia Winters best known for a one night stand with Ivanova. It's of passing interest to note that she was hired after an unsuccessful contract 'negotiation' with Pat Tallman. Guess you can't blame people for trying.

                    Jan
                    That's interesting: I thought when Talia stayed over Ivanova's cabin nothing happened between them. There was no suggestion, to me, of anything happening betw them sexually: The episode shows them sleeping in separate beds. It played out as an innocent sleepover.

                    I do remember the episode where Ivanova admits to being in love with Talia; that struck me out of nowhere. I just took it as she was developing a lesbian love for Talia, but dashed since her reveal as the "sleeper agent."
                    "I am just a worthless liar. I am just an embecile. I will only complicate you, trust in me and fall as well. I will find a center in you; I will chew it up and leave. I will work to elevate you, just enough to bring you down. Why can't we drink forever? I just want to start this over!" TOOL

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by manwithnoname
                      That's interesting: I thought when Talia stayed over Ivanova's cabin nothing happened between them. There was no suggestion, to me, of anything happening betw them sexually: The episode shows them sleeping in separate beds. It played out as an innocent sleepover.
                      Nope...Ivanova doesn't have two beds in her quarters. They didn't show the two in bed together but Talia definitely was reaching for Susan and found her gone. Anyway...JMS confirmed it in the script books.

                      You know what struck me most about that scene, though? It was the camera tilting down from the picture of the eclipsed sun down to Talia. What an artistic way to foreshadow the fact that Talia had another whole personality eclipsed by her conscious one.

                      Have I mentioned how much I like this show?
                      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jan
                        Nope...Ivanova doesn't have two beds in her quarters. They didn't show the two in bed together but Talia definitely was reaching for Susan and found her gone. Anyway...JMS confirmed it in the script books.
                        Suhweeeeeeeet!

                        Originally posted by Jan
                        You know what struck me most about that scene, though? It was the camera tilting down from the picture of the eclipsed sun down to Talia. What an artistic way to foreshadow the fact that Talia had another whole personality eclipsed by her conscious one.

                        Have I mentioned how much I like this show?
                        I didn't noticed that. The show definitely rewards multiple viewings for fans. That is pretty cool.

                        Thank, Jan.
                        "I am just a worthless liar. I am just an embecile. I will only complicate you, trust in me and fall as well. I will find a center in you; I will chew it up and leave. I will work to elevate you, just enough to bring you down. Why can't we drink forever? I just want to start this over!" TOOL

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jan
                          You know what struck me most about that scene, though? It was the camera tilting down from the picture of the eclipsed sun down to Talia. What an artistic way to foreshadow the fact that Talia had another whole personality eclipsed by her conscious one.
                          I wonder if that was intentional, or just serendipity. Did he know that Andrea wanted out when that shot was formulated?

                          FP

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FuryPilot
                            I wonder if that was intentional, or just serendipity. Did he know that Andrea wanted out when that shot was formulated?
                            FP
                            I'm sure that JMS was aware that Andrea wanted to be released from her contract when he wrote it since this was her last appearance. That particualr shot isn't specified in the script except to say that she's sleeping in the bed alone and reaches out. I'd say the director, Jesus Trevino, would get credit for the shot as it was done.

                            And who knows, maybe I'm giving too much credit. That photo was part of the set dressing after all. It just seemed so appropriate to the episode and what was going on with Talia.

                            Jan
                            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                            Comment

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