DC Re-what?

[Jan]

This is an interesting article with some quotes from JMS.

Jan

[Karen]

Makes sense, Karen. Except if they'd done that, wouldn't that make the number of titles totally unwieldy? Given how many they seem to want to re-boot, that is. It seems to me that doing that would dilute all of the sales of all of the books, wouldn't it?

Jan

I don't know. It seems to work for Marvel, or they wouldn't still have the Ultimate line. I'm not sure how many titles are in it, but DC didn't HAVE to settle on the number 52, either.

[Jan]

I have no doubt that the reason they are doing this is to let new fans jump on, but if they had done it like Marvels Ultimate line (Another example of a reboot of the characters) I would have been much happier. The new fans could jump on and us old geezers could stay with "our" characters, since Marvel kept the old books going at the same time.

Makes sense, Karen. Except if they'd done that, wouldn't that make the number of titles totally unwieldy? Given how many they seem to want to re-boot, that is. It seems to me that doing that would dilute all of the sales of all of the books, wouldn't it?

Jan

[Karen]

I kinda blame JMS for this reboot with Earth One. The success for that probably pushed this into happening. I.

Unlikely. By the time Earth One came out, this plan had to have been long in the works. From what I've observed, planning ahead is probably in the range of eighteen months or longer. No way they could have known then that Earth One would stay on the NYT Bestseller list for Graphic Novels for 27 (so far) weeks.
Jan

Agreed, but for different reasons. Both Marvel and DC have come out with many, many elseworlds type of books for many, many years. (As a matter of fact DCs alternate time line books WAS called Elseworlds, as I recall.) Earth Ones success wouldn't have had anything to do with the the plan because no person in the business would design a whole line of books around just one big seller, unless they had information based on more data, which they do. They all copy new formats on a limited basis, but the bottom line is sales. I have no doubt that the reason they are doing this is to let new fans jump on, but if they had done it like Marvels Ultimate line (Another example of a reboot of the characters) I would have been much happier. The new fans could jump on and us old geezers could stay with "our" characters, since Marvel kept the old books going at the same time.

[Jan]

SPOILERS!!

Don't believe its not a "re-boot"t talk. Its a reboot at least for now. Superman will no longer be married to Lois and be banging Wonder Woman. Barbara Gordon will walk and be Batgirl again. Dick will be going back to being Nightwing and have never been Batman. The characters will also be younger and you can take a look at the Goeff Johns and Jim Lee's cover of JLA #1 to see the difference.

Can you share a link to your source, lotjx? Nothing I've read goes so far as to say any of that.

I kinda blame JMS for this reboot with Earth One. The success for that probably pushed this into happening.

Unlikely. By the time Earth One came out, this plan had to have been long in the works. From what I've observed, planning ahead is probably in the range of eighteen months or longer. No way they could have known then that Earth One would stay on the NYT Bestseller list for Graphic Novels for 27 (so far) weeks.

It bugs me, because it seems like people loved Earth One and JMS put a lot of effort into it. Where as, he has really done nothing with the ongoing Superman and Wonder Woman. Both are considered jokes at this point and he isn't even writing them just doing the outlines. Its a shame a lot more went into a one shot then the 12 to 13 issues that he has been doing on the main books.

The decision to drop the monthly titles was made because JMS felt that he could give his full effort to *either* the second Earth One *or* the monthlies. He presented that to DC and it was they who decided for him to stick with Earth One. In addition, he almost had to have turned over his outlines at the time the decision was made, not on a monhly basis.

I very much enjoyed what he was doing with both the WW and Superman monthlies. I'm still enjoying WW but not Superman so much as it seems that only a few panels are being devoted to the cause of Superman's crisis and they've completely dropped any hint of consequences for Superman's last meeting with Lois.

Jan

[lotjx]

SPOILERS!!

Don't believe its not a "re-boot"t talk. Its a reboot at least for now. Superman will no longer be married to Lois and be banging Wonder Woman. Barbara Gordon will walk and be Batgirl again. Dick will be going back to being Nightwing and have never been Batman. The characters will also be younger and you can take a look at the Goeff Johns and Jim Lee's cover of JLA #1 to see the difference.

Someone pointed out it could be an Age of Apolcypse storyline where we get half a year of titles starting with number 1-5 and it ends with one big final issue like Flashpoint is doing now. I don't think so, since most of the stories don't seem to be connected to each like Age was. Its a reboot done to get the so-called new fan that sticks around for three issues then leaves for some reason or another. The real problem facing comic book fans is DC releasing the digital comics the same day as the actual comics and then 30 days later, you get a $1 off the digital copy. Its pretty much the death nail for comic book stores.

Now, this can all blow up in DC's face and part of my thinks it will. The new fans never stick around and if they do they usually only get one or two books, I doubt all of them will be buying the 5 to 6 books a month DC needs them to let alone the 52 books DC is pushing out. I kinda blame JMS for this reboot with Earth One. The success for that probably pushed this into happening. It bugs me, because it seems like people loved Earth One and JMS put a lot of effort into it. Where as, he has really done nothing with the ongoing Superman and Wonder Woman. Both are considered jokes at this point and he isn't even writing them just doing the outlines. Its a shame a lot more went into a one shot then the 12 to 13 issues that he has been doing on the main books.

[Karen]

When they wanted to tell new stories with Green Lantern, they created Hal Jordon. New characters come with blank slates. There's really no reason to jettison a characters history, except it's the easy way out. I will try the new titles, but I'm not happy with the reasoning. If you want new stories, then write them, but don't throw out all that's gone before.

[Triple F]

Joe said on his twitter "re-launch, not re-boot." My impression was eliminating the previous storylines is kind of the point - i.e. if Dr. Snickerdoodle had his head eaten and vowed revenge in Claw-Man #423, and that villain appears in the new Super-Car #1, it will be as if that's his first appearance and he'll be intact and relaxed. That way new readers can be brought in to the universe at the ground floor; Superman: Earth One has been doing very well in sales and that's likely due to the accessibility of the story since there's no needed back issues to catch up to what's going on.

But . . . . how can new readers be introduced to the ‘universe’ if the universe doesn’t exist anymore. If I understand what your saying correctly, by removing all the stories (ie the history, locations visited, etc) that created that universe aren’t you essentially wiping the slate clean thus creating an entirely new one. Which I imagine will royally piss off the fans of the existing one.

With the superman example, would the fans be so keen to read it if they knew that all other stories surrounding superman had just gone out the window, never to return.

[JoeD80]

Joe said on his twitter "re-launch, not re-boot." My impression was eliminating the previous storylines is kind of the point - i.e. if Dr. Snickerdoodle had his head eaten and vowed revenge in Claw-Man #423, and that villain appears in the new Super-Car #1, it will be as if that's his first appearance and he'll be intact and relaxed. That way new readers can be brought in to the universe at the ground floor; Superman: Earth One has been doing very well in sales and that's likely due to the accessibility of the story since there's no needed back issues to catch up to what's going on.

[glindros]

I believe they are using the term renumbering. In most cases I think this will be a reboot, or ignoring most of the previous writing. Being a big Legion of Super Heroes fan, I've lived through several of these, most being bad.

I think the biggest problem that long time fans have is that most if not all of the existing storyline is wiped from existence. The opportunity to build upon what has gone before is lost.

To put it into B5 terms, imagine a reboot and starting from square one with the Psi Corps. Yes, the potential to see Psi Corps introduced again is likely, but my odds on ever seeing a Harriman Gray story have effectively gone to zero. ( I know my odds were never good to begin with)

It is this lost potential, I suspect that rails against long time fans the most.

[Jan]

As I've said before, I'm not really part of the comics community but I know a bunch of folks here are much more knowledgable. So here are the questions:

Re-BOOT or Re-LAUNCH or just re-NUMBER? I keep hearing different things. Do we know yet? If not do we have an idea of when we'll find out?

Why do the numbers matter to anybody but collectors and if so, why? As long as somebody keeps track and folks know when the next milestone is, why put anything but the month and year in the corner the way magazines do?

And at the risk of being controversial--yeah, I know that 'they just hit the reset button X years ago'. Why do fans seem to think that the reset invalidates what's gone before? It's not as if the stories told are somehow suddenly not going to be good stories. I don't get it.

That'll do for a start. Can y'all help me understand?

Jan
--who's hoping to pick up new titles if it's going to be the start of new stories I won't have to know 30 years of backstory to understand.