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Wonder Woman #600 (SPOILERS)

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  • Jan
    replied
    Look, I admit that until I picked it up again, I hadn't read a single issue of Wonder Woman since the Mod Makeover in the 60s. But while I understand about her bracelets, tiara and lasso, I don't see what other parts of the original outfit make it anything but a bathing suit with elements of the US flag?

    And why is her outfit so important? Me, I agree with JMS that the former outfit simply wasn't good for fighting in. One kick at the wrong angle and she'd be wearing a thong. One punch that landed wrong and she'd be distracting the enemy by flashing him full frontal nudity.

    Why is my criticism unfounded when Gail chose to continue a storyline that no new reader could possibly have followed? After the book hadn't been published for some time (as I recall)?

    I'm sorry that you don't like what seems to be going on but I have a feeling that JMS will do some great things with this character. He *respects* the characters he writes and he's proved that with Spidey and Silver Surfer and Doc Strange and others. Yeah, he may shake things up but that's to explore deeper into what makes those characters special.

    Jan

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  • DeltaBadhand
    replied
    It's not a bathing suit! Never was. Anyone who's read the title over the past 10 years would get that just through dialog let alone the Amazon context.

    And the guy she killed, that you didn't know about. DC had her kill someone in a company wide cross over in someone else's book. So that criticism is unfounded.

    I have LOVED this book since I was a child in the 1970s and folks that don't get it and don't seem to want to get it keep ruining it. It's terribly saddening to see my childhood hero dissapear and replaced by Wonder Wolverine or Generic Woman.

    I'm in for 3 issues and if I am not seeing my WW in the book, I will stop buying the book for the first time since issue #204. I sure hope I am not driven away 400 issues later.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Hi, DeltaBadhand, and welcome. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    Originally posted by DeltaBadhand View Post
    So you find it a source of joy that folks who have loved a character their entire lives are upset?
    While I can't speak for Frulad, I think that what he was referring to was the costume change. And you have to admit there's been quite a stir.

    Let's count the number of regular supporting cast members under Gail Simone:
    1. Hippylyta
    2. Etta Candy
    3. Nemisis
    4. Artimis (even though she wasn't in very many issues)
    5. Gorilla Knights
    6. Achilles (again not always around and was recently introduced)

    Now, how is that hard to follow?
    In a word, yes. To explain, I'd understood that WW was starting a brand new run under Gail Simone and when I picked it up I was greeted with what seemed to be a continuation of a previous story where WW/Diana had killed somebody and given up her position. I didn't know who she'd killed, why she'd killed him/her/it and there was no explanation given. I had no idea who it was that had taken her place. It didn't take me long to drop it. I might not have if there'd been any thought given to the fact that new readers might be joining that didn't have the background knowledge of what had gone before.

    Is this disparaging generalization of the folks who actually buy comics necessary?
    The comment was actually that it seemed that the upset folks *hadn't* read the preview at all. A fair percentage sound off and mention that they haven't bought WW and wouldn't be buying it.

    About #600:
    I disliked the JMS story becuase it is the retread of the same plot lines every single creater has gone through since 1985. I sincerely beleive DC hands folks a Wonder-Woman-plot-checklist:

    1. Take away powers and slowly return them
    2. Kill her mom and bring her back eventually
    3. Kill as many Amazons as possibly and detroy the island
    4. Make her forget who she is. (Gail Simone did this in a 4 parter in the past 2 years)
    5. Help her find herself so the fans can jump on if they are new (But please don't try and make what she finds consistent to the last run)
    6. Change her costume and appearance. (Simone changed the outfit in the same 4 parter, Simonson cut her hair 4 years back)
    7. Throw away the supporting cast and replace the with very similar characters with different names
    I don't know what other writers have done but I've seen JMS take over characters before and it seems pretty standard for him to leave the supporting cast aside for a while and concentrate entirely on the main character. I like that a lot because it makes it much easier for me to jump in.

    As much as I hate the costume change and see no value in it (Google Poochie and The Simpsons for my full opinion) this retreading of plots and the lost oppurtunity to grow and build the titles mytholody on Simon and Rucka's work really drives me nuts. If you reset constantly, then you drive away any new readers that came along with the reset and you just continue to alienate the die hards who want this book to just get on with it and tell good stories.
    Sorry, the Simpsons set my teeth on edge so I won't be googling your suggestion. And while I understand what you're saying, I think we should trust JMS to retain the core of the character. He respects WW/Diana and I think he'll be a good caretaker of that part of the DCU.

    Love JMS in other genres. Couldn't love "Changeling" any more! But this approach (with out without the costume)? Pure garbage.
    As I've said, there are some details about the new costume I'm not sure of but I *love* that he addressed the 'wardrobe issue' right off the bat. I have yet to see any reason why WW had to wear a bathing suit that amounted to anything more than 'that's how it's always been'. Yeah, once the timelines merge again it may go back somewhat but I dearly hope that it won't have the star-spangled panty!

    I'd love to hear if and why you think the old costume worked, though.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • DeltaBadhand
    replied
    Originally posted by frulad View Post
    Just finished reading the Times story and headed over here to post it. Argh! Beat me to it again Jan!

    But, yeah, I can't wait to watch a certain segment of comics fandom loose thir collective fudge over this...
    So you find it a source of joy that folks who have loved a character their entire lives are upset?


    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    I can see where somebody might not care for him saying that Diana was overloaded with supporting characters except that's what he's said about pretty much every title he's ever taken over. And that's exactly why I dropped Gail Simone's work on the title: I couldn't figure out what was going on.

    Jan
    Let's count the number of regular supporting cast members under Gail Simone:
    1. Hippylyta
    2. Etta Candy
    3. Nemisis
    4. Artimis (even though she wasn't in very many issues)
    5. Gorilla Knights
    6. Achilles (again not always around and was recently introduced)

    Now, how is that hard to follow?

    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    And yet I don't think many have even read the preview or there'd surely be something about the preview title, wouldn't there?

    And then genre fans are outraged because they have such a lousy reputation.

    Jan
    Is this disparaging generalization of the folks who actually buy comics necessary?


    About #600:
    I disliked the JMS story becuase it is the retread of the same plot lines every single creater has gone through since 1985. I sincerely beleive DC hands folks a Wonder-Woman-plot-checklist:

    1. Take away powers and slowly return them
    2. Kill her mom and bring her back eventually
    3. Kill as many Amazons as possibly and detroy the island
    4. Make her forget who she is. (Gail Simone did this in a 4 parter in the past 2 years)
    5. Help her find herself so the fans can jump on if they are new (But please don't try and make what she finds consistent to the last run)
    6. Change her costume and appearance. (Simone changed the outfit in the same 4 parter, Simonson cut her hair 4 years back)
    7. Throw away the supporting cast and replace the with very similar characters with different names

    As much as I hate the costume change and see no value in it (Google Poochie and The Simpsons for my full opinion) this retreading of plots and the lost oppurtunity to grow and build the titles mytholody on Simon and Rucka's work really drives me nuts. If you reset constantly, then you drive away any new readers that came along with the reset and you just continue to alienate the die hards who want this book to just get on with it and tell good stories.

    Love JMS in other genres. Couldn't love "Changeling" any more! But this approach (with out without the costume)? Pure garbage.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    And yet I don't think many have even read the preview or there'd surely be something about the preview title, wouldn't there?

    And then genre fans are outraged because they have such a lousy reputation.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • Dan Dassow
    replied
    Originally posted by SmileOfTheShadow View Post
    Very funny stuff. He just trolled the Wonder Woman readership. I think this will be a very interesting supernatural storyline, which he's good at.
    It certainly looks like JMS has unleashed a fire storm with some of the more avid fans of Wonder Woman. One anonymous person went so far as to express his outrage by editing the Wikipedia article on JMS.
    Last edited by Dan Dassow; 07-01-2010, 03:31 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • SmileOfTheShadow
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    I've read the prologue now and I'm about to re-read it in order to absorb some of the nuances of it but one thing had me laughing. It's obvious that JMS knew *exactly* what the reactions were going to be when he named this prologue:

    Odyssey: Prologue
    COUTURE SHOCK



    He's an evil man, our JMS...

    Jan
    Very funny stuff. He just trolled the Wonder Woman readership. I think this will be a very interesting supernatural storyline, which he's good at.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    I've read the prologue now and I'm about to re-read it in order to absorb some of the nuances of it but one thing had me laughing. It's obvious that JMS knew *exactly* what the reactions were going to be when he named this prologue:

    Odyssey: Prologue
    COUTURE SHOCK



    He's an evil man, our JMS...

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • SmileOfTheShadow
    replied
    I've read up UNTIL the 8 page JMS prologue. The rest of the book so far was pretty lame, honestly. I haven't liked the art that much (except for a few pin ups) and the stories were very shallow and short.

    The JMS page I've seen looks like much better art than the rest of the book, but I haven't gotten to the story yet.

    And everyone I have come across seems pissed about the costume change. People don't like change.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Another interview with JMS:



    I've got the comic now but haven't had time to read it. Just paging through, though, there's startlingly few clear views of Diana in the new costume. Can't wait to read it! Darn work...

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Nikki Finke doesn't like it at all and takes a 'Men ruined WW' and 'a woman should be writing WW' stance.

    DEADLINE EXCLUSIVE: Don Kramer’s Wonder Woman DC Comics announced that, starting today, Wonder Woman “will appear like you’ve never seen her before”. And I wish they’d just …


    Sigh...and I always respected her before.

    This is getting funny.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • SmileOfTheShadow
    replied
    JMS on Fox News!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Wow, you suppose that was really a quote from Mark Waid calling JMS an ego-maniac? I didn't see him say anything bad, I don't think. I can see where somebody might not care for him saying that Diana was overloaded with supporting characters except that's what he's said about pretty much every title he's ever taken over. And that's exactly why I dropped Gail Simone's work on the title: I couldn't figure out what was going on.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • frulad
    replied
    Bleeding Cool has an article on the negative reaction to the costume redesign. But this is Bleeding Cool, so of course they'll be playing up any controversy....

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Thanks, Quarxius!

    Here's another, this time from CBR:



    Jan

    Leave a comment:

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