Gah! What is it with the broken german all the time?

[Harrdy]

I can understand if in a movie there is one simple sentence and it is totaly corrupted and raises the hairs (that might be a funny translation, I try to make symmetry *g*)... there is only one sentence, why bug a german (or a dictionary) with that... nobody will recognize it (because it's foreign). I guess the same happens a lot with other languages, too...

Why that under Comics? Because I like Sandman. And so I bought some books of the series "Lucifer" from our good friend, the Amazon (*g*). A lot of the first two books (haven't started the third one) is located in germany, but the language is english. (I have) No problem with that, but suddently there are some broken german words, mostly as Skinheads where hitting some poor guys. I can only guess that the german words have kind of a Pawlow-reaction on some people, drawing a line from "german" to "evil". It is something that I have long thought, but it never came so clear from any media thanfrom that "Lucifer" comic.

So... are we german speaking people really *still* considered the baddies? I mean, I can kinda understand about the french being evil (just kidding *g*), but germany is hardly right wing at the moment (heck, Arnold Schwarzenegger said he came from a communist country... that would be Austria, and i don't subscribe to Mr. Schwarzeneggers point of view... there was the Socialist Party in power here, but they are not Communists... more middle-left). So... what is it about german that makes it "evil"? There are worse sounding languages (Finnish comes to mind), and I'd guess there are more Nazis in America (because there are more people) nowadays than in Germany, Austria or Swizzerland (they speak german, too).

PeAcE

[manwithnoname]

my theory: b/c the impact of Hilter/Nazi's had on people. I think it's about perception. People associate evil with Hilter/Nazi's, and where did they come from? What language did they speak?

I understand what you're saying. What Hitler did continues to happen everyday, and recent past. Rwanda. Sudan. Indonesia. Cambodia. The list will continue to grow.

Lots of comic stories feature heroic characters fighting Nazi's. I'm a big fan of Hellboy. A lot early Hellboy stories featured Nazi's.

Speculation: part of the problem may be b/c it's a British writer whose editor is American. They're ignorant of the stereotype they're perpetuating.

[manwithnoname]

...and I'd guess there are more Nazis in America (because there are more people) nowadays than in Germany, Austria or Swizzerland (they speak german, too).

Yeah, I live in Oregon, right next door to Idaho that has a big Nazi population. Last year my local newspaper published an article about the Nazi's adopting a street. It's a program here where anyone (business, an individual, family, or group) can "adopt" a street. The street adoption requires a certain amount of voluteer hours per month picking up trash along the adopted street. The State of Oregon then puts up a street sign with your name on it. It's a pretty cool program. However, in this case, the sign caught people's attention. And, the sign was issued BEFORE the Nazi party contributed any hours picking up trash. Months went by. Still no trash was picked up. Long story short: Nazi street adoption revoked; their sign went down b/c they didn't adhere to the requirements of the state program.

Interesting, no?

[Harrdy]

Lots of comic stories feature heroic characters fighting Nazi's. I'm a big fan of Hellboy. A lot early Hellboy stories featured Nazi's.

I am surely no fan of the Nazis (and/or other right wing, militaristic paties), but what I meant is: Why the broken german (language)? Everybody knows the uniform and symbolism of the Nazis, I *very* seldom see people nowadays running in those kind of clothes. I see more Skinheads (where the military look is stronger) and then there are the normal looking people who hate everything foreign (because they are in one way or another frightened by it). But everybody (here) speaks german. I wouldn't think of "Nazi" if I heard someone speak german, I would think "ah, somebody from around home"... and to be honest, I don't know any language that gives me that kind of connection to something (at least right now, I'm open for examples, but I tried to think of something connected with "english"... nothing. French? Well... maybe a little bit pride. Italian? Maybe romance and emotion. But negative examples? None that I can think of...).

I think you hit the point with "perception". I guess it is a repeated Meme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme), (in function) like a "running gag": If somebody uses it it is immedeatly recognized, and because it is recognized it is used so often (to strenghten a point, like: "This person is *evil*. Why? He speaks german!"... alternatively: "Didn't you hear his manical laughter?" *g*).

Still... bugger... if you (not the persons in this forum, a "general you") need to use german for the bad guys, PLEASE get a native speaker... it's most of the time like translated babelfish stuff 8-)

PeAcE

[phazedout]

<snip>I don't know any language that gives me that kind of connection to something (at least right now, I'm open for examples, but I tried to think of something connected with "english"... nothing. French? Well... maybe a little bit pride. Italian? Maybe romance and emotion. But negative examples? None that I can think of...).
PeAcE

Well a language connection for me (obviously) is Irish, so rarely heard, and on one occasion a friend of mine speaking irish into her mobile phone was told to "get back to yer own country!" in Dublin!!
So, both positive (nice feelings of home and tradition) and negative (guy so racist he didn't know his native tounge when he heard it)
Phaze
on the "proud to be irish, european and human" ID

[Karachi Vyce]

One of the best throwaway segments in the Simpsons:

Sideshow Bob before the parole board:
Parole Board member #1: What about that tattoo on your chest that says "Die, Bart, Die!"?
Bob: Oh, that?....that's....German. It says, "The, Bart, The!"
*parole board members mutter approvingly*
Parole Board member #2: No one who speaks German could possibly be evil!

[Dr Maturin]

So... are we german speaking people really *still* considered the baddies? I mean, I can kinda understand about the french being evil (just kidding *g*), but germany is hardly right wing at the moment

Do you want to rephrase that clause?

[manwithnoname]

...need to use german for the bad guys, PLEASE get a native speaker... it's most of the time like translated babelfish stuff 8-)

PeAcE

I like it when writers use non-fiction aspects in fiction, but I appreciate it more when the non-fiction aspects are accurate. So, I agree with you here 100%. This is where research is involved on the writer's part; some choose to go with their own perception and/or stereotype, and some (very few) shoot for accuracy.

[Harrdy]

Do you want to rephrase that clause?

I'm not sure what you mean that I have "wrongly" phrased. Surely there could be a grammar error or the like, as I am not native to this language (still, I find myself strangely more emotional compared when I am writing/speaking german...).

The next thing that could be "wrong" ist the joke about the french. I am using racial or national stereotypes only in joke, I don't *mean* them. I "could" call americans "burger eating fattos", but I wouldn't (heck, did I do that right now? *g*). Only when I am with people I know quite good and am sure that they get it as it was meant, as a joke. I kan laugh about (good!) jokes about austria, heck our "national freedom" is based - as an urban legend - on a joke. When Figl supposedly whispered to Raab at the meeting in Russia: "Und jetzt, Raab - jetzt noch d' Reblaus, dann sans waach!", translated very freely as: "And now, Raab - now sing the "Reblaus", then they are soft (as convinced)"... they supposedly used lots of alcohol and singing sad songs to get the Austrian Independence... well, if *that* is no joke, then I don't know any *g*

The last thing that could be "wrong" is my remark about germany not being "right wing" at the moment. While there is a stronger visiability of right wing scandalizers on the streets there has been a red-green (SPD, Greens, ~middle-left) Cabinet until recently, now they have a red-black big coalition (SPD, CDU ~middle). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_Germany
There have been rising votes for right-wing parties, especially in areas where the unemployment is rising. The eastern part of germany is still a problematic area, and there you hear right-wing speeches more often. On the other hand Poland has made quite a dramatic movement to the extreme right with Roman Giertych and Andrzej Lepper... but in Austria there will be votes for the Cabinet later this year, maybe there will also be a movement to right, at the moment it is undecided. With the current middle-right cabinet a lot of promises where not kept, so a lot of people want *change*. That could be in both directions, depending on which demagoge catches the people... we'll see...

PeAcE

[Harrdy]

Well a language connection for me (obviously) is Irish...

Ah, Irish... lots of drinking and brawling... or ist that a stereotype 8-)

PeAcE

[manwithnoname]

Do you want to rephrase that clause?

Harddy, I'm pretty sure Z'ha'dumDweller is trying to be funny. You're from Austria, and it's obvious English is a second language for you. Posters here have poor grammar (me too!) and poor spelling skills, then throw in typos and such. Believe me, everybody has their own brand of humor. The Z'Dweller likes to give nudges, that's all.

My ex-girlfriend (still friends) constantly tells me that I'm not funny. She tells me this while I'm laughing at my own joke, of course. I'm my biggest fan! I'm sure Z'Dweller is his own biggest fan.

[Harrdy]

My ex-girlfriend (still friends) constantly tells me that I'm not funny. She tells me this while I'm laughing at my own joke, of course. I'm my biggest fan! I'm sure Z'Dweller is his own biggest fan.

Ah, I know that feeling... when confronted with a surreal situation I tend to laugh... which can get into the wrong way with people when they *live* in a situation I see as surreal (, tell me about it and I start laughing...).

Also I find it absudly comical that our urban legend (told in the prior posting) contains lots of alcohol and sad songs... like that makes us positively different from the rest of the world (examplifies austria), you know what I mean? "We are drunk and sad and proud of it" 8-)
But that humor could also be mine alone...

PeAcE

[Dr Maturin]

Not trying to be funny at all. If I had wanted to attack grammar and syntax, I had many opportunities. The quote I posted suggested that right wing stances were evil.

[Harrdy]

Well, the "right wing" "left wing" Terminology is inherently false, as politics is much more complex. But here in Austria "right wing" means isolationistic, afraid/agressive to foreigners, Nationalistic, etc. The extreme right is ready to use violence and denies minorities and foreigners their right to exist. So in our (austria) view Nazi-Germany was an extreme right nation. So yes, we (most intelectuals) consider right as evil (That has to do with the guilt about what happend before and during the second world war, where the hatred and egotism flooded all over europe). Neo Nazis are *not allowed* in germany and austria (contrary to eg america, where (at least I heared) it is protected as the right of free speach). You are not allowed to use Nazi symbols, song lyrics and the prior hatred for Jews has given way to Semitophile views for some time (from guilt). The "Heil" greeting was a very traditional (again: Conservative) greeting in parts of Austria and germany, it is quite dead now. And also: the same (political) field which spawns hatemongers (in regards to foreigners) also is *very* conservative. They overlap. That doesn't mean that every Conservative is an Faschist/Nazi, see the statement at the beginning about insufficient definition of "right" and "left". So when I say "middle-right" I mean Conservative, when I say "right" I mean Faschist/Nazi.

So, was Stalin left or right, in your opinion? 8-)

By the way, there is a two dimensional representation of politic agendas availiable on the internet which fits the reality much better... left right is on a second scale (Y) drawn by grade of authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_Compass

You can have a very authoritarian *leftist* regimes (as Stalins) and very free right regimes. It fits better for many agendas.

PeAcE

[Dr Maturin]

In all of the debate about the supposed innate evilness of the right wing, I totally missed this very valid point:

If there's ANYTHING that is unjustly considered a "baddie" in comics, it's The United States of America. Just wait for DC's new Uncle Sam series.