And yet another winner of an idea by Millar

[Dr Maturin]

The new Alpha Flight series will be manned by American heroes who have moved to Canada as a result of the government legislation enacted in the 'Civil War' megacrossover. It plays off the history of Americans escaping the draft during the Vietnam War, as well as recent declarations by certain people that they'd move to Canada if Bush was re elected (and then not). It's politically observant, satirical, colonialist and intentionally controversial. And leading the team? Captain America, obviously.

You've got to hand it to Millar. That'll set the message boards buzzing.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

There are rumors that Captain America is one of these heroes.

Ya know, I've had it with this hippie garbage in comics. "We're getting you to think!" is the rallying cry of these doofs. Well, why not try to get people to think with other kinds of stories? Besides, this doesn't get kids to think...it makes them think it's cool. I've been in comic book stores for twenty years, and I've seen it.

Whatever. DC used to be the universe that supposedly sucked. It's looking better and better every month.

[Harrdy]

Joking around makes kids think that's cool? Heck, I'm cool! *g*

Obviously it doesn't work that way, at least here in austria. What's cool and what's not is based on a very complicated ruleset, part of that is the color black, being "against" (something/everything), being stronger in any way than the world around, being able to do some special feats (even burning gas is considered cool by some...), etc. Doing someting stupid - and as I read from the description the whole moving to Canada is meant as a funny remark to those "I'm going to canada if GB wins"-people - is not cool, except wenn it's surreal, yes, surrealism is another "cool" thing (sometimes, I think it is the case if kids think that there is much "deepness" behind).

The other thing is escaping the draft... I guess you where enraged by that part and not the prior part? Some people don't want to die. Yes, that goes that far that they can leave their "country" (more like: Their birthplace) behind if they think they can survive that way. That is not against our nature, only the surviving ones can give birth to children, so I guess it is embedded in our genes. We want to live. So while I understand that a country wants people to use as cannon fodder to enlarge its borders and influence, there must be something to gain for the common people, the ones that die horrible. In history you encounter the fat lie most of the time: "We are under attack!". e.g. Germany used it to begin the (second world) war (you remember the whole border incident?). If you say that magic words a lot of people will jump up and give their lives. Must be something in our evolutionary wires that makes us tick that way, but I want to stress: If we *know* we are manipulated, we don't NEED to jump. So anyway you want it, better listen to something else than the politicans...

Aside from all that, c'mon, leave your own (proud and kicking) child a little behind, you don't need to buy the product, but you can't know the product from the package!

PeAcE

[Jan]

Labeling something "hippie garbage" doesn't make the Viet Nam era any less valid a period to mine for stories, especially potential cautionary tales than the World Wars or any others. It's part of our history just as the Civil War was. Why should it be more acceptable to allude to that one than Viet Nam?

Jan
(trying to decide whether to move this off-topic)

[Karachi Vyce]

Screw Millar, Marvel, and Quesada. Looks like I can get to cancelling the majority of my Marvel books quicker than I thought.

Millar's got a hard-on for this type of hippie bullshit, it's not the first time he's done something like this. It's just the most disgusting. Captain America is my second favorite Marvel character of all time, so I'm less than thrilled that Marvel has decided that he's going to go super liberal and abandon America because, shocking, America has become so oppressive and fascist that he's got to find his freedom in the socialist-lite Canada.

I'm sure there will be quite a few here who will defend the storyline, but just remember this: the entire PURPOSE of this, which Marvel is admitting, is to "cause controversy", which means they're actually admitting that they're outright TRYING to piss off huge portions of their fanbase.

I've heard it said elsewhere, but it's accurate: Millar loves superheroes, especially traditional superheroes like Cap, in the same way a wifebeater loves his wife. This is the same problem guys like JMS has. And Bendis. THE CHARACTERS ARE FINE AS THEY ARE. YOU DON'T NEED TO 'BREAK' THEM AND THEN FIX THEM AGAIN. Why? Cause they weren't broken to begin with.

Millar, though he's probably the current holder of the "Most Contempt for his Audience" title. He seems to really hate hero books (that aren't Superman) and for the most part, his characters are all despicable (including his takes on Captain America and the WASP in Ultimates). The last page /line of the "Wanted" miniseries is the most appropriate to some up Millar's regard for his audience: "This is my face when I'm fucking you up the ass."

[Jan]

I'm sure there will be quite a few here who will defend the storyline, but just remember this: the entire PURPOSE of this, which Marvel is admitting, is to "cause controversy", which means they're actually admitting that they're outright TRYING to piss off huge portions of their fanbase.

What's to defend? The story hasn't even come out yet. But changing the definition of the word controversy doesn't advance your argument. Controversy is no more than conflict. Conflict fuels drama.

Why not just wait and see what happens?

Jan

[Harrdy]

I guess some haven't heard of the "Thesis" - "Antithesis" - "Synthesis" Modell... Well, you can always fall back to the "I am right"-modell 8o)

PeAcE

[David Panzer]

So basically, a storyline that has people leaving the States because they don't blindly accept everything the country does is "hippie bullshit"

And I thought I was pathetic that I cried when John Tenta gave Hogan the Earthquake when I was a kid

[manwithnoname]

What's to defend? The story hasn't even come out yet. But changing the definition of the word controversy doesn't advance your argument. Controversy is no more than conflict. Conflict fuels drama.

Why not just wait and see what happens?

Jan

controversy: 1. discussion of a question in which opposing opinions clash; debate; disputation 2. a quarrel or dispute

The above definition is straight from Webster's New World Dictionary, verbatim.

See, having a controversial story does not make it automatically bad, and it doesn't automatically make it good. What makes any story, controversial or not, is in its execution, how well is the story written.

What I see from a few here on the message boards is this: if they don't like a concept of a story, then they think the story sucks -- though they have yet to READ it.

But, this represents a condition of human perspective and stubborness. In deciding ahead of time of their dislike of a story, when it's time to read the story, their minds will resist liking the story -- no matter if the story turns out great. Once we believe something or in something, even in the face of insurmountable evidence/facts to the contrary, we will not change our minds. This is one of the greatest weaknesses of humans.

Marvel's history is based upon addressing real-world issues. Remember the famous Stan Lee Amazing Spider-Man issue showing Harry Osborn's ordeal with drugs? The year it was published? That was controversial.

Like or dislike Millar, which I don't find his writing to be all that spectacular, his idea is addressing a real-world issue. Millar is what I deem in comics a decent writer, not a great writer. Even the best comic writers turn in a dud, and the average comic writer turns in a stellar piece of work once in a while. Labeling Millar's story concept as "liberal" is...inaccurate and insulting. Many politicians of all colors kept their children out of the Vietnam war, and yes, Republicans too.

Have any of you served the military in a time of war? Not reserve status, but active duty status? It's one thing to support a war, but it's something different altogether when you support a war AND enlist in the armed forces. It's easy to pound that war drum, but not have to put your life on the line if and when you are ordered to do so.

I served, active duty, during the first Gulf War (1990-1994). As I've stated before in a post over in the Babylon 5 boards, my July vacation time is being spent visiting an old Marine Corps buddy of mine in Alabama.

Liberal, Conservative, Republican, Democratic. All these labels mean nothing. All the labels do is keep the masses fighting amonst ourselves while keeping the pressure off of the politicians.

Back on topic: Hate Joe Q, Bendis or whomever you like. The story they're presenting is an interesting concept because it did happen in American History.

[Dr Maturin]

So basically, a storyline that has people leaving the States because they don't blindly accept everything the country does is "hippie bullshit"

Correction: It's a storyline specifically designed to piss people off (and please a small minority) by taking iconic heroes and having them do things that George Clooney would do. Since there isn't a situation that would cause any rational person to act in that manner, Millar, Quesada and company have created one.

How about one where a French hero leaves that cesspool?

And I thought I was pathetic that I cried when John Tenta gave Hogan the Earthquake when I was a kid

I cheered it.

[David Panzer]

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism - Thomas Jefferson

[manwithnoname]

Correction: It's a storyline specifically designed to piss people off (and please a small minority)...

And you know this to be true because of...?

Look up the definition of controversy in the dictionary.

[manwithnoname]

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism - Thomas Jefferson

Well, according to many "patriots" today, dissent is unpatriotic.

WillieSAH, I agree with you AND Thomas Jefferson!!

[Jan]

Correction: It's a storyline specifically designed to piss people off (and please a small minority) by taking iconic heroes and having them do things that George Clooney would do. Since there isn't a situation that would cause any rational person to act in that manner, Millar, Quesada and company have created one.

Correction: It's a storyline specifically designed to be *controversial*. See the definition manwithnoname posted since yours seems to be in error.

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism - Thomas Jefferson

Depends on what the dissent is about.

It's funny how the artists love controversy so much, so long as the message is liberal in nature. My judgement will be reserved, but my expectation is that the actions of the people who jump ship will be portrayed as noble and just, not so much in the Marvel universe as in real life.

[David Panzer]

I like controversy, and I enjoy reading stuff that doesn't hold to my opinions. But this entire "liberals vs. conservative" debate/circle-jerk/rhetoric is just annoying.

From books to video games to tv shows to papers to magazines... It's just pointless.