SUPREME POWER to crossover with the Marvel Ultimate Universe

[frulad]

Jan,

Most people prefer separate Superhero/continuity universes for simplicity's sake as well as consistancy's sake. Business considerations aside, there is a distinct tonal difference between DC's mainstream superhero universe, Marvel's mainstream universe, the Marvel Ultimate Universe, etc... Heck, when DC gobbled up the publishers who put out the Captain Marvel/Shazam comics, many fans felt that several elements from that "Universe" never really sat well alongside other DC Universe elements after both "Universes" were folded into one during DC's Crisis On Infinite Earths event 20 years back.

Good Lord this is getting geeky fast...

Although the DC and Marvel Universes are really the amalgam of countless writers and editors shaping over the decades, certain "universes" bare the imprint of their individual creators. Marvel's Ultimate universe has been pretty much spearheaded by Brian Michael Bendis, though recently as more writers and titles have been brought into the mix that specific voice has been dilluted somewhat.

Since everything related to this new version of SUPERMEN POWER/ SQUADRON SUPREME has been overseen by JMS, it has its own distinct voice. What worries me is that in one of the reports on the series I've read it states that a character from one of the universes will find themselves stranded in the other universe at the end of the story and that the crossover will have a lasting impact (whatever the term "last impact" can mean in a medium where characters routinely die and come back to life) on the characters of both universes.

To me, this is as bad as an idea of someone doing a Babylon 5/Star Trek crossover and JMS decides that at the end of it Lenir will remain on the Enterprise.

If this was just a crossover for the sake of a fun story, I wouldn't mind.

[Jan]

Thanks, Frulad, I think I've got it now. How reliable is the report that you had? We've all seen how sometimes people speculate and it gets reported as 'fact' shortly afterward.

I wonder if I need to read more comics or fewer...

Jan

[Harrdy]

To me, this is as bad as an idea of someone doing a Babylon 5/Star Trek crossover and JMS decides that at the end of it Lenir will remain on the Enterprise.

What about Bester (of course on the original Trek)...

No, I dislike crossovers that have an effect on the (main) storyline. I like parodies and "one shots", heck, for all I care Enterprise and an Omega Destroyer can have a shootout... just please don't make that "canon" (into the regular storyline).

PeAcE

[frulad]

Thanks, Frulad, I think I've got it now. How reliable is the report that you had? We've all seen how sometimes people speculate and it gets reported as 'fact' shortly afterward.

I wonder if I need to read more comics or fewer...

Jan

Straight from one of the horses' mouth at this Newsarama interview with Bendis, JMS and Loeb-

NRAMA: Can you give any details in regards to the mechanism of the crossover? How these two universes wind up colliding?

JMS: Reed Richards is up to something, which goes rather startlingly amiss. One of the byproducts is a breakdown of the barrier between the two universes, with disastrous consequences for all sides.

BB: Well said.

JL: But, what makes it so cool -- and a story I think we all wanted to tell is that it is not only a cautionary tale for all comic book universes -- but it will have long, long lasting effects. More on that later.

NRAMA: So obviously without giving away the farm, can you describe in any detail what the conflict driving the story will be - or perhaps in other, broader words, what's going to be interesting about crossing over these two universes and their characters?

JMS: I think it's going to be the level and magnitude of the conflict, especially once it lands in the Supreme Universe, where the carnage is going to be quite extensive. It's also a strong character story for Reed, who has to face the consequences of that situation. As with any good Marvel story, the action and the conflict are driven by character, and this one definitely is among them. It's also going to allow us to show characters we haven't seen before in the same book whomping the bejeezus out of each other.

It's going to be fun.

BB: And not everyone ends up in the universe they started in.

NRAMA: What?

BB: What what?

NRAMA: Not everyone ends up in the universe they started in?

BB: Who said that?

NRAMA: You did.

BB: I did? What does that mean?

Honestly, we said if we're going to do this lets go all the way with it. LetÆs write each sequence to that writer's strengths and letÆs put on one hell of a crossover. LetÆs make something for people, like myself, who can't stand a crossover that has no lasting effect on the characters. LetÆs make this one of the, if not the most important chapter in these charactersÆ story.

And I truly think we've accomplished that...by leaving Millar out of it [laughs].

JL: The Millar part we all agreed was the most important the thing to accomplish. The second most important thing was that we had a plan to... do what Bendis just said, and then didn't say... I mean, you've got two teams, and two big bunches of characters -- whose to say who goes where at the end? Who falls in love with who? Yes, we'll make sure that the Hyperion/Thor throwdown rattles your teeth... but who can resist Zarda when she's got her boobie thing going on?!

[David Panzer]

My interest in Supreme Power has officially ended. Happy readings to those who continue on.

[Karachi Vyce]

Criticism I'm okay with, but criticizing to demean and tear down a person is uncalled for. Come on, creators are PEOPLE, they have feelings, too.

I have to be honest and say that I've read this paragraph a dozen times, and it absolutely never ceases to make me laugh out loud uncontrollably.

I mean......you're kidding, right? Let me just say this: I will be happy to purchase and mail a box of Kleenex to any Marvel writer / creator who happens to get their feelings hurt by something I've written about them on this forum. Because if their ego is so fragile as to be upset by something some idiot on an internet *messageboard* said about them, they'll need them.

I just get sick and tired of people complaining about things they have control over. Howard Stern has said: They invented something called the "dial" and the "off" button. Nobody is forcing anybody to BUY crossovers. Here's a novel concept: If you don't like reading something, then you stop reading it. This concept SOLVES a lot of problems.

Using this logic, no one has the right to criticize any entertainer / writer / creator, no matter what crap they serve up to the consumer, because hey, if you don't like it, just don't buy it / turn off the radio / turn off the TV. No, no, no. If a consumer isn't happy with the product that's been given to them, especially if the consumer spends a LOT of money on the product (as I do with comics on any given month), quite frankly they have a right to complain about the quality of the product. I spend a lot of money on Marvel's product every month, and if they're putting out what I feel is a inferior product, "if you don't like it just don't buy it!" isn't going to cut it. At the very LEAST, all of that money I've spent on Marvel's material gives me the right to complain if I think they're doing a poor job. Complain quite vociferously at times.

BTW, never use Howard Stern as an example, the man's a hypocrite on issues of free speech.

I await KV's response, hopefully he/she shows some civility. Otherwise, I'm extricating myself from posting on the JMSNews Forums altogether; I'm excercising my right to use the "off" button.

So my harsh, foul language will drive you from this forum? Allow me to express my thoughts in a way as to perhaps make you pause: you likely gain enjoyment from this message board, so think long and hard about leaving it over, to quote myself, 'some idiot on an internet messageboard'. For a couple reasons: 1) You can always just choose to ignore me. This board have an 'ignore poster' feature? If so, you could use that. And 2): I don't know you, so I won't lose any sleep if you leave, so whatever minor protest you might be aiming for wouldn't really affect me one way or the other.

If my mother had internet access and did something other than watch soap operas, she just might say "Dave, I'm proud of you for presenting your thoughts clearly and objectively without saying 'Shit,[MODERATOR EDIT-highlight to read more vulgarity]

Here's the reality of the world: more people actually talk like me (especially on the internet) than not. No one should have such a hangup over foul language, they're just words. More expressive than others, but just words. I mean, I would hope that I'm not the only one here who's appreciating the irony that a guy who apparently listens to Howard Stern is complaining about my language, but maybe I am.

[David Panzer]

When I typed up that sentence that has the FCC's 7 dirty words, my tongue was squarely in cheek.

There are some people that aren't into all the words. There are some people who would have you not use certain words. Yeah, there are 400,000 words in the English language, and there are seven of them that you can't say on television. What a ratio that is. 399,993 to seven. They must really be bad. They'd have to be outrageous, to be separated from a group that large. All of you over here, you seven. Bad words. That's what they told us they were, remember? 'That's a bad word.' 'Awwww.' There are no bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad Intentions.

[naloth]

Forgive what might be a naive question from somebody who doesn't really understand the different comics 'universes' but...why?

While I don't mind the occasional crossovers, it seems to me that different universes exist to allow different events to unfold at the same time... Tying the two universes together creates an age old problem of why certain heroes aren't working with others. Surely if they were on good terms with the Squadron Supreme they would call on them when Gal lak tus (whatever the Ultimate Extinction name used it) is about to destroy the Earth.

I mean, with all the talk about universes and retconning and reimagining etc., wouldn't it just be simpler for readers to accept each title for what it is, logical or not, continuity or none and just enjoy or drop them as they come?

Example: Classic Coke vs New Coke - customers were offended by the change. Since not just anyone can make Coca-Cola, the company had to decide between being true to their established customer base or striking out in a new direction hoping to build a new customer base. In most cases, you can experiment a little but you don't completely switch the product.

[Jan]

Using this logic, no one has the right to criticize any entertainer / writer / creator, no matter what crap they serve up to the consumer, because hey, if you don't like it, just don't buy it / turn off the radio / turn off the TV. No, no, no. If a consumer isn't happy with the product that's been given to them, especially if the consumer spends a LOT of money on the product (as I do with comics on any given month), quite frankly they have a right to complain about the quality of the product. I spend a lot of money on Marvel's product every month, and if they're putting out what I feel is a inferior product, "if you don't like it just don't buy it!" isn't going to cut it. At the very LEAST, all of that money I've spent on Marvel's material gives me the right to complain if I think they're doing a poor job. Complain quite vociferously at times.

Of course anybody has a right to complain, as vigorously as they like...within the Rules/Guidelines (here, anyway). What I wonder, though, is why waste the energy by complaining *here* instead of sending it directly to Marvel/Quesada?

Of course, if you want them to actually pay attention to you rather than toss any letter or delete any email, again you'd have to moderate your tone and language and maybe explain, plainly and simply that they've overdone that marketing technique. These days it's so simple to get your voice heard, it seems kind of silly to waste the opportunities by just venting.

As for:

Here's the reality of the world: more people actually talk like me (especially on the internet) than not. No one should have such a hangup over foul language, they're just words. More expressive than others, but just words.

<shrug> More expressive of...what? Certainly not ideas or clear communication so what does foul language express other than to give the impression that you're less eloquent than you're capable of being?

Jan

[Jan]

When I typed up that sentence that has the FCC's 7 dirty words, my tongue was squarely in cheek.

Understood. Let's just say I was afraid it might start a trend... You know how I get when I put that moderator hat on.

Wonder how many folks highlighted to read the hidden text?

Jan

[David Panzer]

Or how many folks remember Carlin's "Seven dirty words" routine

[manwithnoname]

Of course anybody has a right to complain, as vigorously as they like...within the Rules/Guidelines (here, anyway). What I wonder, though, is why waste the energy by complaining *here* instead of sending it directly to Marvel/Quesada?

Of course, if you want them to actually pay attention to you rather than toss any letter or delete any email, again you'd have to moderate your tone and language and maybe explain, plainly and simply that they've overdone that marketing technique. These days it's so simple to get your voice heard, it seems kind of silly to waste the opportunities by just venting.

As for:

<shrug> More expressive of...what? Certainly not ideas or clear communication so what does foul language express other than to give the impression that you're less eloquent than you're capable of being?

Jan

Again, thank you, Jan. You have made my point ultra clear, and more eloquently.

I don't have a problem with swear words or whatever. KV, you miss the point altogether. I'll try to make this as simple as possible: all you do is complain. Understand? I repeat, "All you do is complain." Complaining is NOT a valid form of critique. Criticism is not complaining. Letting one's opinion be known because they dislike something is really okay with me.

But, you whine and complain.

Of course I don't enjoy ALL the comics I read. However, I don't rate a comic's read as an 'F' or an 'A'. Some comics run the gamut of a, b, c, d and f grading scale.

"It sucks." Doesn't tell anything to anyone. Be specific. There are comics that I didn't like, but there were some moments that did shine. Or, the story they tried to tell was good, but their execution was lacking.

And, Howard Stern is funny; it's entertainment. Hypocrite. Sure. Aren't we all?

George Carlin is f* hilarious.

Just because someone is requesting for more meaningful and clear conveyances of ideas is not a bad thing.

Remember, some of your previous posts I have agreed with you on some points, but you don't highlight any positives. Are that negative a person? Negativity takes more energy, and takes a toll on a person.

[manwithnoname]

Forgive what might be a naive question from somebody who doesn't really understand the different comics 'universes' but...why?

I mean, with all the talk about universes and retconning and reimagining etc., wouldn't it just be simpler for readers to accept each title for what it is, logical or not, continuity or none and just enjoy or drop them as they come?

Like I said, it's probably a naive question but maybe somebody can explain it.

Jan

When I read a comic or prose book, I'm looking for a good story.

Crossover or no crossover, is it a good story? Slamming the crossover before reading it doesn't make sense. If JMS or any other writer could have Papa Smurf cameo in a Spider-Man comic and it is an out-of-this-world reading experience, I'm all for it. I take that back; I'd prefer Smurfette, come on, she's sexier.

Many years ago people slammed Bryan Singer's X-Men BEFORE it hit the theaters. Huh? I don't get. After you see a movie or read a book and you don't like it, then I can understand that.

[David Panzer]

A person saying something sucks with nothing to back up that statement is slamming it.

A person who...

1) gives a reason why they won't read a particular storyline,
2) gives a reason for why they MAY drop a comic because of a possibility of that storyline,
3) reads a comment from one of the writers' involved that essentially verifies statement #2,
4) then stops reading said comic as a result

is not slamming it.

[manwithnoname]

A person saying something sucks with nothing to back up that statement is slamming it.

A person who...

1) gives a reason why they won't read a particular storyline,
2) gives a reason for why they MAY drop a comic because of a possibility of that storyline,
3) reads a comment from one of the writers' involved that essentially verifies statement #2,
4) then stops reading said comic as a result

is not slamming it.

Thank you, WillieStealAndHow. Can I call you, Big Willie?

You stated EXACTLY what I've been trying to get across, pinpoint accuracy.

I appreciate the numbering