Is Jeffrey Sinclair really David Sheridan?

[Jan]

Except the actual word is 'claiming', not 'pretending'. Here's part of what it says in Volume 10. Note that these were JMS's first notes on "what elements would be added to the fifth season in order to set up a series that would explore the process of empire building.":

Someone will come to them claiming to be Sheridan's and Delenn's son who has come back from the future to try and stop them from making a terible mistake. ...(substantial snip) (... when we reveal that this person is telling the absolute truth, a truth that we have one chance to prevent from becoming a reality

Jan

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Hmmm but in the last scriptbook - there where he wrote how the 5th season would have looked like if everything had happend as planed - JMS said that someone would appear on the station pretending to be David who traveled through time ^^

Hmmm ... emphasis mine.

[raw_bean]

The idea that JMS confused Catherine and Carolyn is strictly verboten...

That's why I'm trying to blame Peter David.

[SLerman]

JMS said that someone would appear on the station pretending to be David who traveled through time

There was also someone that appeared on the station that claimed to be King Arthur.

[Jan]

Well, he always reserved the right to change his mind, too.

The fifth season stuff, though...wasn't that how he would have slanted things if he'd been sure of a spin-off, wasn't it? That's one of the things that I find fascinating about the script books--that we see how he planned ahead and how events changed his plans.

Jan

[Whyruss]

I think it was a pretty cool trick getting Sinclair to become Valen. JMS said he'd only do the time travel thing once.


Jan

Hmmm but in the last scriptbook - there where he wrote how the 5th season would have looked like if everything had happend as planed - JMS said that someone would appear on the station pretending to be David who traveled through time ^^

[Kevin]

Ultimately, whatever happened in the comic, whether a misunderstanding or, as grumbler pointed out, mearly a precaution should Catherine find it before hand, doesn't really matter; jms has made a number of posts since the publishing of both In Valen's Name and To Dream in the City of Sorrows that clearly state that Sakai is in fact the person Valen is so happy to have found.

Posts we have dredged up and reposted and talked numerous times on this very board over the many years It's an interesting topic, made more interesting by the fact that it's a story that jms has given us some pieces to, while ultimately still leaving the core story elements hidden from us. Sadly, I don't think we'll ever know much more then we do now, which still isn't too bad all things considered; there are certainly other topics that we know even less about (i.e. Telepath war)

[grumbler]

Here is my totally unsubstantiated 2 cents (pre-inflation) on the message: Sinclair recorded it over time, and mentioned Catherine Sakai as a recipient because because he was not sure when he recorded it that he knew Catherine had been found. He added the last line later.

That's my story, and I am sticking to it. The idea that JMS confused Catherine and Carolyn is strictly verboten, though highly likely.

[raw_bean]

That line always bothered me too. I can only assume it's a goof on the part of PAD, who wrote the dialogue for that issue of the comic. JMS outlined it, and I'm pretty sure he intended to have Valen referring to Sakai in the past (and therefore not leave the message to her), but maybe PAD got confused, and JMS never noticed it.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

I thought the end of To Dream In The City Of Sorrows made it pretty clear that Sakai made her way back to Sinclair also. It wasn't that straightforward, but implied very heavily.

What a confusing topic. I'll have to reread the In Valens Name comics.

[Ulkosh]

Sorry to dredge up such an old thread but t is a point which has confused me...

JMS claims Sinclair found Sakai.. now let us assume for a minute that the quote from In Valen's Name " I've found her" refers to this...

Vacantlook- also, don't forget the ending of the 3 issue miniseries "In Valen's Name" published by DC in '98, and the comic series is considered canon by JMS.

Spoilers Be Here






For the course of the miniseries, Delenn was viewing the archives on Babylon 4. The last message she views is from Valen/Sinclair.

"My name is Valen... and I have served my people like no other. I led them into fire... into darkness... into death... and they followed me without hesitation. They acclaim my victories and hail me as a great leader. They speak of my successes as if they are as infinite as the stars. And yet, for all that I've accomplished... I lie awake, listening to the screams of the dead and dying, those who are already gone, and those are yet to be born. A few words from me could avert the Earth-Minbari conflict. A warning to Delenn or Duhkat... But without the war, there would be no Babylon 4 and no Babylon 5. There would be no rallying point against the Darkness... and the Shadows would win, now and a thousand years from now. I cannot deviate from the circle of which I am a part. I am the beginning of the story, as Zathras said... and a prisoner of it. I dare not change the end. Still... it's been a good life... lives... over all. Delenn, Catherine, Susan, Michael... if any of you see this somehow.. don't cry for me. For in the final analysis, I've always been too hard on myself. I'll be content to let history judge me, and all that has been done in Valen's name. And as for me... I've received my own reward, because I've found her. At long last... I've found... her."

OK?
Then why is the message for Delenn, Garibaldi, Ivanova AND Catherine Sakai?

If he's found Sakai why is he leaving a message to her?
This hasalways led me to assume that the her referred to is somebody else.. but whom?

[vacantlook]

The Minbari had many humans available for capture, the same way they captured Sinclair they could have captured other fighter pilots (or escape pods from bigger ships) in the Battle of the Line.

Not only could they have done so, but did do so. Lennier tells Sheridan and Ivanova that after testing Sinclair that they took in more humans and tested them as well during his explanation to them in "Points of Departure".

[WorkerCaste]

Many detectors are metering devices. It is often convenient to not only know about the presence of something, but the strength as well. The Triluminary may have varied it's brightness based on the "strength" of the match. It could react to any human dna, but the reaction to Sinclair could have been much stronger. That would fit with the Minbaris believing Sinclair had the soul of a great Minbari while not attributing that to every human.

[Capt.Montoya]

A later part in the "JMS speaks" section:

Was the "who is Morgana Le Fay?" scene a dig at people on the net who say B5 is just some other story with different trappings?
The references given (he said vaguely, to avoid spoiling anybody) were first and foremost intentional to the story and to set up stuff...but as I wrote it, the way this stuff has been discussed online did come to mind, and on some level it was probably a slight *plink*, yes.

Sort of a "yeah, well, TWO can play at that game, and most of you missed THIS particular analogy, so THERE."

I am in serious need of a vacation, I think....

The answer was given more straightforwardly later, the mention of Morgana LeFay was a set up for the return of Anna Sheridan:

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-11927&query=morgana

As to why the Trilumminary, coded to Sinclair's DNA would light up with other humans...
We share some 94 % of our DNA with Chimpanzees.

The DNA of Sinclair had enough similarities to other humans that is likely that any human would light up the trilumminary.
Encoding to recognize all of a certain human's DNA means having information to partially recognize almost any human.

That AFAIK is enough science fact to justify that science fiction, without recurring to further assumptions about relatedness between characters (I do like Occam's Razor).

Now... I would be interested if anyone had ever asked JMS whether a trilumminary would also light up, however dimly, with a chimpanzee or gorilla...
It would be most interesting to speculate whether the Minbari would then assume that their souls are also reincarnating in other Earth apes!
A possible speculation, all within canon...

The assumption that only the known characters of B5 could be tested seems unwarranted.
The Minbari had many humans available for capture, the same way they captured Sinclair they could have captured other fighter pilots (or escape pods from bigger ships) in the Battle of the Line.

My own personal speculation about DNA encoding in the trilumminary and transformations:
It would be just the small amount of Sinclair specific DNA that would allow the Human-Minbari transformation, either by being part of the activation code or being part of the information necessary to complete the transformation.
Delenn's transformation to Human was almost, but not quite, complete precisely because some of the pieces of Sinclair/Valen's DNA were missing from her after several generations.

[rallytbk]

In recently re-watching Babylon 5 (I saw SiL two nights ago) I came across something in the 4th Season (around Atonement, possibly shortly thereafter).

I remember Delenn saying that they were so surprised at the Chrysalis' reaction to Sinclair that they took in other humans and probed them as well, and the results were also confirmed by the Triluminary.

Would that mean that the Triluminary was not necessarily coded to Sinclair's DNA, but to HUMAN DNA?

Just a thought, as I doubt seriously that all the humans brought in for the confirmation were Sinclair's close relatives.

Funny you should say that, because from what is currently knownà Just a thoughtà (Assuming it is within the continuity of the events and nothing else was published). The only humans the Minbari could have tested the Triluminary on, were Jeffery Sinclair (during the Battle of the Line), John Sheridan and Dr. Stephen Franklin during their mission to meeting Lenonn and capture in ôIn the Beginningö.

What if all the main characters are all related to each other in some way or another? Lets explore that option.

How much truth is there in Marcus' joking speculation about the Vorlons? Or in his drawing of parallels between the B5 crew and Arthurian legend? (If there's a lot of truth there, then who is the Morgana Le Fay figure?)